Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Horus]

So since the official explanation for the Confederation line issues on New Year's Eve was that the wires and catenary were dirty and therefore lost connection, is this a good thing for Phase 2, particularly for the East extension? With the routing through the median of the highway, those wires and trains are going to be exposed to nothing but salt spray all winter.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by Horus

So since the official explanation for the Confederation line issues on New Year's Eve was that the wires and catenary were dirty and therefore lost connection, is this a good thing for Phase 2, particularly for the East extension? With the routing through the median of the highway, those wires and trains are going to be exposed to nothing but salt spray all winter.

I've been seeing some people (on reddit) saying that the pantographs had never been cleaned (at least this specific type of cleaning), other than just going through the train wash in the yard. If that is true, then i don't think it'd be a worry for stage 2. And even if it isn't true, the question is how much dirty/grim/etc is needed to cause a power failure. If they're able to properly schedule them to be cleaned before it because an issue there shouldn't be a problem.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by corynv

I've been seeing some people (on reddit) saying that the pantographs had never been cleaned (at least this specific type of cleaning), other than just going through the train wash in the yard. If that is true, then i don't think it'd be a worry for stage 2. And even if it isn't true, the question is how much dirty/grim/etc is needed to cause a power failure. If they're able to properly schedule them to be cleaned before it because an issue there shouldn't be a problem.

Ottawa has a different climate than other cities with LRT. It isn't just the cold but the ice. I doubt that any city in Europe or North America with LRT is so prone to freezing rain, ice and sleet. We probably understood some of this when we had streetcars but all that knowledge was long ago lost. Montreal needs to pay attention and learn from this for when REM faces its first winter.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ottawa has a different climate than other cities with LRT. It isn't just the cold but the ice. I doubt that any city in Europe or North America with LRT is so prone to freezing rain, ice and sleet. We probably understood some of this when we had streetcars but all that knowledge was long ago lost. Montreal needs to pay attention and learn from this for when REM faces its first winter.

i'm sure alsotm will be paying attention to here for montreal.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ottawa has a different climate than other cities with LRT. It isn't just the cold but the ice. I doubt that any city in Europe or North America with LRT is so prone to freezing rain, ice and sleet. We probably understood some of this when we had streetcars but all that knowledge was long ago lost. Montreal needs to pay attention and learn from this for when REM faces its first winter.

I’m not so sure about that. Sure Western Europe has a different climate but I am sure there are places in Eastern Europe that have similar climate to us.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I’m not so sure about that. Sure Western Europe has a different climate but I am sure there are places in Eastern Europe that have similar climate to us.

I don’t think anywhere in Europe has a similar climate to Ottawa, even Moscow has milder winters and fewer storms. i am not sure the combination of severe cold and active weather is easy to find anywhere in the world.

[lrt's friend]

I believe that the Ottawa-Montreal climate is quite unique. Hills to the north push warm air upward, while cold air pools in the Ottawa and St. Lawrence valley and this often persists because typical cold east winds move along the valleys from the northeast to the west. This creates an ideal situation for ice build up and the need to use a lot of salt and grit to keep roads safe. There are probably few places on earth that have as challenging conditions and a need for surface electric LRT.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think anywhere in Europe has a similar climate to Ottawa, even Moscow has milder winters and fewer storms. i am not sure the combination of severe cold and active weather is easy to find anywhere in the world.

Moscow seems pretty close. Ottawa seems to be colder by about 2-4 degrees on average monthly temperatures. But they have the same months of sub-zero average highs and lows. And similar precipitation profiles. Both are under the same Koppen climate classification.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think anywhere in Europe has a similar climate to Ottawa, even Moscow has milder winters and fewer storms. i am not sure the combination of severe cold and active weather is easy to find anywhere in the world.

Ottawa is often compared to Moscow because they are both national capitals, but there are many other cities in Eastern Europe and even much smaller cities there have LRT systems.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I believe that the Ottawa-Montreal climate is quite unique. Hills to the north push warm air upward, while cold air pools in the Ottawa and St. Lawrence valley and this often persists because typical cold east winds move along the valleys from the northeast to the west. This creates an ideal situation for ice build up and the need to use a lot of salt and grit to keep roads safe. There are probably few places on earth that have as challenging conditions and a need for surface electric LRT.

Because we all know that hills and valleys are only found in eastern Canada. It’s so Ottawa yo think that we are unique in the world. Our compulsion to continuously have bare, dry roads in the middle of winter is quite unique admittedly.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Because we all know that hills and valleys are only found in eastern Canada. It’s so Ottawa yo think that we are unique in the world. Our compulsion to continuously have bare, dry roads in the middle of winter is quite unique admittedly.

What about Calgary where the weather can go from winter to summer overnight?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Ottawa is often compared to Moscow because they are both national capitals, but there are many other cities in Eastern Europe and even much smaller cities there have LRT systems.

I've always felt we should compare ourselves more to Stockholm, Helsinki, Krakow, and Dnipro as cities of similar climate and size to Ottawa.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

I've always felt we should compare ourselves more to Stockholm, Helsinki, Krakow, and Dnipro as cities of similar climate and size to Ottawa.

Stockholm, Helsinki and Krakow a little warmer in the winter and a lot colder in the summer. Dnipro is the closest, it gets winter nearly as cold as us and summers as hot as us. All pretty close though. Temperature and weather are very different though. I don't think there is a city with weather just like Ottawa/Montreal anywhere.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Stockholm, Helsinki and Krakow a little warmer in the winter and a lot colder in the summer. Dnipro is the closest, it gets winter nearly as cold as us and summers as hot as us. All pretty close though. Temperature and weather are very different though. I don't think there is a city with weather just like Ottawa/Montreal anywhere.

Good old Canadian exceptionalism.

Chicago would seem to have everything Ottawa has with lake effect snow and pretty similar temperatures. Trains mostly outside too.
Helsinki might be cooler in Summer but not sure how that matters their trams regularly plow through snow and ice storms.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Good old Canadian exceptionalism.

Chicago would seem to have everything Ottawa has with lake effect snow and pretty similar temperatures. Trains mostly outside too.
Helsinki might be cooler in Summer but not sure how that matters their trams regularly plow through snow and ice storms.

It does matter for track tensioning. As discussed before, with continuous welded rail there are no expansion joints, so when laying track they preheat the rail to a specified temperature so that the track won't buckle in hot weather. If tensioned too much though, the track can fracture in cold weather. The wider the temperature extremes, the harder it is to find that "Goldilocks" tension. This isn't related to the issue at hand though.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It does matter for track tensioning. As discussed before, with continuous welded rail there are no expansion joints, so when laying track they preheat the rail to a specified temperature so that the track won't buckle in hot weather. If tensioned too much though, the track can fracture in cold weather. The wider the temperature extremes, the harder it is to find that "Goldilocks" tension. This isn't related to the issue at hand though.

So what's the advantage of continuously welded?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So what's the advantage of continuously welded?

A smoother, quieter ride (no clickety-clack) and less wear on the wheels. It is also necessary for higher speeds (though I don't think that is a factor for the O-Train).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

A smoother, quieter ride (no clickety-clack) and less wear on the wheels. It is also necessary for higher speeds (though I don't think that is a factor for the O-Train).

Really!? I find the ride pretty rough. The "crunch" around the corners gets in my head, especially in and out of Hurdman.

[swimmer_spe]

This talk of climate is really annoying semantics. Everywhere has slightly different weather and climate conditions than everywhere else. We may get more or less of one thing that the other or have a higher or lower temperature swings than another place, but, that doesn't mean we cannot use other systems to model ours off of. If anything, we should look at places that deal with each type of climate/weather issues separately and see how they deal with them. Then we can combine those solutions into one that works for this line.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So what's the advantage of continuously welded?

The Trillium line only ran every 20 minutes before continuously welded rail was installed; after it was installed they were able to bump up frequency to every 15 minutes. So I'm assuming it enabled increased speeds.