Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

My opinion might not be a popular one... but just because something is an example of a type of architecture doesn’t necessarily mean that it should be preserved. A lot of architecture from the 1950s through the 1980s was cheap looking, poor quality and just plain ugly. I can look at buildings built 100 years ago and still think that they’re beautiful. A lot of those buildings are aesthetically timeless, and I’m all for preserving them. But the Ken Garff building looks like a really tall trashy aluminum shed that you might’ve found in someone’s backyard in the 80s. I would honestly care less if they tore the thing down or gave it a re-clad. Some parts of history just aren’t worth saving and are more of an architectural embarrassment than anything. The church office building is another one that I would love to see get a re-clad. That thing is easily one of the most hideous building in our city and it sticks out like a sore thumb. I feel pretty much the same about all the stucco crap they’ve been building over the last 10 years. These apartment buildings that they’ve been building are going to age horribly. I think that we will regret them in 30 years if they even last that long.

It's silly to compare these apartment buildings to two high-rises, one which was the first high-rise to be built out of the Great Depression in Salt Lake (no high-rise construction occurred between the late 1920s and early 1950s). They're not remotely the same and it's not the same because these buildings, despite whether you like them aesthetically, are not cheap. These apartments are cheap.

But your opinion should be unpopular because it sets a bad precedent. You talk about a building that was timeless, in your mind, and beautiful, despite being built 100 years ago and, believe it or not, there was a time, in the 1960s and 70s, where architecture built in the 1800s and early 1900s, was not thought of as beautiful - but extremely outdated. It's why, in that era, we had a shit-ton of buildings reclad - from high-rises to mid-rises to small storefronts throughout the nation.

Take the old Deseret News Building, which sat on the current location of the Gateway Tower West. This is what it originally looked like:



And this is what it looked like when it was the Union Pacific Building:



The mindset that led to that reclad is born from the same view you're sharing here right now - it's ugly, it's outdated ... it's not worth preserving.

That mindset also led to the demolition of a good amount of historical buildings that, today, we lament losing. I'm not saying you're right or wrong but I think there's something to be said about historical importance. The apartments going up today are not going to be historically important in 50 years. But the two buildings you mentioned are a unique aspect of architecture that is very limited in the western United States, specifically in Utah, and while it's not appealing to all, both buildings are as important to the city's architecture as the Walker Bank Building.

[Rileybo]

Well said, Comrade.

I’m puzzled to hear so many mentions of a COB reclad on this forum. Even if some may not find the tower very attractive, it’s been a prominent feature in the skyline for so many decades that it’s rather silly to suggest it should be heavily, and likely cheaply, altered.

To add: It’s nice to see recent activity in Central City, however the sameness of these new low and mid-rises is disheartening.

[Blah_Amazing]

The historic preservation movement in Salt Lake has become a joke, whose focus is so stretched that they are totally ineffective.

Rather than focusing on preserving the structures that actually really truly matter, like Pantages, they have spent a lot of their limited time trying to preserve structures like the Ken Garff building and Public Safety Building!? Both buildings that literally everyone I talk to admits are ugly (even people of this forum seem to mostly agree).

Union Pacific Depot, one of the more beautiful historic structures in the city, will soon have an ugly concrete Soviet-style structure looming behind it because not enough effort was put into crafting protections for it.

Preservationists in the past few decades have been so focused on developing NIMBY style policies for the wealthy in the avenues and in Yalecrest that many REAL historic structures have fallen into neglect and torn down during that same time period instead.

We were just talking a few days ago about how a couple beautiful century old historic buildings, some of the last remnants of the 'Old Greek Town,' were being demolished. But thank goodness the fugly Ken Garff building is still standing!

What is even more scary is this growing notion, even on this forum, that basically everything that is old is somehow deserving of preservation. That mentally is exactly why so much is getting demolished. If everything is equally valuable and worthy of preservation, then really nothing is worthy or valuable. Especially in our current economic system and culture.

The city cannot fight off everything all the time. This lack of focus is why Pantages will be demolished, likely this year. It isn't because it wasn't worthy of preservation or investment. Its because preservationists lost sight of what is actually important to preserve, and are only upset now because they are starting to see the consequences of that.

Preservation cannot survive if its goal is to fight progress. History has shown you cannot fight the future - it always wins.

Cities change and evolve. If Salt Lake has put the same level of restrictions that preservationists have tried to do in neighborhoods like the Avenues back in the 19th century, Salt Lake would be stuck as a town of cabins and block sized farms. Nothing on Main Street street that all of us praise would exist! Places must be allowed to adapt and change - to progress. Or else all we are is the past - a dead and stagnant society. Historical preservation can't be simply for preservation sake. Rather, it should be focused on those special buildings that will truly shine and benefit the future for generations to come.

I know I'm ranting, but I'm angry. I'm angry because I am not old enough to have ever been to Pantages (or Utah Theatre, as it became known later). To me, it was once a beautiful building that I have only ever seen in photos. A building that I believe had so much left to give our shared community. But it was abandoned because the focus for decades was on creating broader protections that only resulted in rising NIMBY mentalities. Protections, BTW, that are already eroding due to market pressures.

Salt Lake's preservationists of the past chose what they valued. They valued protecting warehouses, not the sight-lines of our historic train depots. The preservation of ugly old office towers, not the flagship of our concert halls. Single family neighborhoods rather than the true centers or symbols of our community. Glorious building after building gone or diminished because of their lack of focus.

It has become quite clear that the policies of historic preservationists in Salt Lake have failed. The soon to be rubble of Pantages proves that. It is important to understand why they failed, and how we can all move forward and protect that which really matters before its too late.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

It will face 200 S and 300 S and is about 315 E. These renderings show the 300 S face.

Both ends of the block are seeing a lot of excavation. I'll get some pictures this weekend.

Re: the Broadway project images
I'm pretty sure these are not old and new renderings of the same face. They are both current. The first image is the 200 S face, and the second image is the 300 S face.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

Rather than focusing on preserving the structures that actually really truly matter, like Pantages, they have spent a lot of their limited time trying to preserve structures like the Ken Garff building and Public Safety Building!? Both buildings that literally everyone I talk to admits are ugly (even people of this forum seem to mostly agree).
......
We were just talking a few days ago about how a couple beautiful century old historic buildings, some of the last remnants of the 'Old Greek Town,' were being demolished. But thank goodness the fugly Ken Garff building is still standing!
......
The city cannot fight off everything all the time. This lack of focus is why Pantages will be demolished, likely this year. It isn't because it wasn't worthy of preservation or investment. Its because preservationists lost sight of what is actually important to preserve, and are only upset now because they are starting to see the consequences of that.

Preservation cannot survive if its goal is to fight progress. History has shown you cannot fight the future - it always wins.

Wow. That must have felt good. Lots to digest here. Lots of cognitive dissonance as well. Arguing that one style deserves preservation while the other doesn't is pretty much the definition of historic preservation so it's bound to create conflict and I respect your opinions on the once grand Pantages, but alas, it was rotted and hacked away decades ago. If it was going to be preserved it needed to start in 1985, not now. The exterior was NEVER EVER beautiful and I'll stand by that. Its street engagement sucked. The BOLD I highlighted is just plain wrong. It isn't because it wasn't worthy of preservation or investment. On the contrary, not once in this whole noisy drama did I see a viable financial plan for preservation, including use and overall public benefit. Movies are almost revenue-neutral any more. The stage doesn't make sense for modern live theater. Maybe a concert venue but that's an uphill battle that should have started 30 years ago.

The Garff tower (aka Washington Federal Bank) was designed by Mid Century master W.A. Sarmiento, whose buildings are being preserved nation wide, is an absolute CHERRY. Probably the first mid mod tower built west of the Mississippi. Oh well, glad you clowns don't own it. Can't teach taste as they say.

Cheers and Happy New years guys! 2020 will be a HUGE year for SLC.

[SLCLvr]

Salt Lake County and developer announce operator and groundbreaking for convention center hotel.
Salt Lake City, UT – Today, Atlanta-based real estate developer Portman Holdings and Salt Lake County announce the selection of Hyatt Hotels Corporation as operator of the new Hyatt Regency Salt Lake City on the corner of 200 South and West Temple.
“We are delighted to have closed financing and to commence construction of the state-of-art, 700-key Hyatt Regency convention hotel in Salt Lake City. This is the culmination of a multi-year effort, a strong partnership with the County, and an innovative financing and execution strategy. We are also pleased to continue our 52-year partnership with Hyatt Hotels that began with the iconic Hyatt Regency Atlanta,” said Ambrish Baisiwala, CEO of Portman Holdings.
The project is estimated to cost $377 million and has been partially financed through the Commercial Property Assessed Clean Energy program, which allows for specialty financing to enable green energy design and implementation. The
hotel represents one of the first ground-up developments to utilize this program in Utah.
“We are so excited for this project to come to fruition as it has been many years in the making. This convention center hotel will change the urban landscape of Salt Lake City and help strengthen the local economy,” said Salt Lake County Mayor Jenny Wilson. “We want to thank our incredible partners at the state, the city, and across the private sector. Without their cooperation and dedication, this project would never have become a reality.”
The 686,784 square foot, 26-story hotel will have 700 guest rooms and 60,000 square feet of meeting space. The hotel will have two separate restaurants on the first and sixth floors and a lobby bar. The sixth-floor restaurant will sit adjacent to an outdoor amenity area, inclusive of a pool and a 7,500 square feet outdoor terrace for events and other activities. The project will be directly connected to the Salt Palace Convention Center for seamless access to convention attendees staying at the hotel or using its offerings.
“This is one of the most exciting developments we’ve seen in the last 20 years,” said Mark White, Senior VP of Sales & Services for Visit Salt Lake. “It takes full advantage of our stunning mountain backdrop and the downtown’s urban setting. Our sales team now has everything meeting professionals want, and we’re ready to compete for more and larger tradeshows and conventions.”
Construction begins in early January 2020 with a groundbreaking event scheduled for Friday, January 10, 2020 at 12PM MST.

[SLC PopPunk]

Originally Posted by SLCLvr

Did we know the Convention Center Hotel was a Hyatt Regency?

I feel like there were rumors floating around it was going to be a Hyatt Regency, but don't recall any confirmations.

I really am excited for this to get going.

[nushiof]

Great news! And groundbreaking next week! 2020 is starting off right!

I thought the hotel was going to have 27 floors and 725 rooms. Did they downsize it slightly to 26 floors and 700 rooms?

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

I feel like there were rumors floating around it was going to be a Hyatt Regency, but don't recall any confirmations.

I really am excited for this to get going.

Updated my post with the county press release.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

I feel like there were rumors floating around it was going to be a Hyatt Regency, but don't recall any confirmations.

I really am excited for this to get going.

Just adding some info here that it was lightly known but couldn't be confirmed until the funding had been finalized.

As SLCLvr has updated their original post with the following, the operator and timelines are now official:

Salt Lake City, UT – Today, Atlanta-based real estate developer Portman Holdings and Salt Lake County announce the selection of Hyatt Hotels Corporation as operator of the new Hyatt Regency Salt Lake City on the corner of 200 South and West Temple.

“We are delighted to have closed financing and to commence construction of the state-of-art, 700-key Hyatt Regency convention hotel in Salt Lake City. This is the culmination of a multi-year effort, a strong partnership with the County, and an innovative financing and execution strategy. We are also pleased to continue our 52-year partnership with Hyatt Hotels that began with the iconic Hyatt Regency Atlanta,” said Ambrish Baisiwala, CEO of Portman Holdings.

The project is estimated to cost $377 million and has been partially financed through the Commercial Property Assessed Clean Energy program, which allows for specialty financing to enable green energy design and implementation. The hotel represents one of the first ground-up developments to utilize this program in Utah.

“We are so excited for this project to come to fruition as it has been many years in the making. This convention center hotel will change the urban landscape of Salt Lake City and help strengthen the local economy,” said Salt Lake County Mayor Jenny Wilson. “We want to thank our incredible partners at the state, the city, and across the private sector. Without their cooperation and dedication, this project would never have become a reality.”

The 686,784 square foot, 26-story hotel will have 700 guest rooms and 60,000 square feet of meeting space. The hotel will have two separate restaurants on the first and sixth floors and a lobby bar. The sixth-floor restaurant will sit adjacent to an outdoor amenity area, inclusive of a pool and a 7,500 square feet outdoor terrace for events and other activities. The project will be directly connected to the Salt Palace Convention Center for seamless access to convention attendees staying at the hotel or using its offerings.

“This is one of the most exciting developments we’ve seen in the last 20 years,” said Mark White, Senior VP of Sales & Services for Visit Salt Lake. “It takes full advantage of our stunning mountain backdrop and the downtown’s urban setting. Our sales team now has everything meeting professionals want, and we’re ready to compete for more and larger tradeshows and conventions.”

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Wow. That must have felt good. Lots to digest here. Lots of cognitive dissonance as well. Arguing that one style deserves preservation while the other doesn't is pretty much the definition of historic preservation so it's bound to create conflict and I respect your opinions on the once grand Pantages, but alas, it was rotted and hacked away decades ago. If it was going to be preserved it needed to start in 1985, not now. The exterior was NEVER EVER beautiful and I'll stand by that. Its street engagement sucked. The BOLD I highlighted is just plain wrong. It isn't because it wasn't worthy of preservation or investment. On the contrary, not once in this whole noisy drama did I see a viable financial plan for preservation, including use and overall public benefit. Movies are almost revenue-neutral any more. The stage doesn't make sense for modern live theater. Maybe a concert venue but that's an uphill battle that should have started 30 years ago.

The Garff tower (aka Washington Federal Bank) was designed by Mid Century master W.A. Sarmiento, whose buildings are being preserved nation wide, is an absolute CHERRY. Probably the first mid mod tower built west of the Mississippi. Oh well, glad you clowns don't own it. Can't teach taste as they say.

Cheers and Happy New years guys! 2020 will be a HUGE year for SLC.

The irony, which this poster either ignores or refuses to grasp, is that the Pantages falling into utter disrepair is built out of the same mindset he espouses here right now - that things shouldn't be saved solely due to historical importance.

I am willing to bet the leaders who pushed the reclad of the theater, and then its neglect, did so because they thought it wasn't architecturally all that remarkable and worth preserving - that its facade was rather bland.

The Pantages was neglected because what made it unique, its interior, was not visible and the rest of the building was far from unique, beyond the sign, but yeah, I actually agree that effort should have been put into preserving it ... back in the 1970s and 80s when it was worth preserving.

But this goes to the root of the problem. People are too quick to deem specific architectural styles as ugly or uninspiring, ignoring the history and advocating for complete removal and that is literally the exact mindset that led to the demolition, or recladding, or neglect of some of the most impressive buildings in Salt Lake. Why? Because the mindset of that day was that these buildings were outdated, old and completely devoid of any modern appeal. So, they bulldozed 'em for modern office towers, or reclad 'em to make them look more modern.

Hell, it wasn't that long ago the LDS Church was planning on demolishing the historic First Security Bank Building until public outcry forced them to reverse course. That was just fourteen years ago. And I recall they demolished the Inn at Temple Square for a residential high-rise.

Frankly, I'd take the Ken Garff Building over the American Towers, Key Bank Tower, Eagle Gate Plaza, the US Bank Tower and a slew of other smaller high-rises that were built out of the 1970s and 80s.

The Public Safety Building isn't at near the top of my list but unless it's being demolished for something significant, as opposed to just another bland three-to-four story apartment building, then I don't support its removal, either.

And that's really the end point here. I have no faith these buildings would ever be demolished for something actually better ... especially looking at what Cowboy Partners already has proposed next to the The Public Safety Building. Even the original development was, while not horrid, uninspiring.

[Pencil]

2020 will be the year of the tower crane for SLC

[Marvland]

I like the ring of that. Sort of a Gilligan's Island anagram. Question 'Scrapers: have we ever had three major towers legit under construction at the same time? Who knows, maybe we get four or five?

[Atlas]

Have they dropped the idea of having a big LED screen on the south side of the CCH?

(Previous rendering)

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Question 'Scrapers: have we ever had three major towers legit under construction at the same time? Who knows, maybe we get four or five?

I think it was close:

222 S, 90 West, and The Regent

I think there was a time when there were cranes up for all 3 but it was only a short time.

It is possible there will be 4 or 5 tower cranes downtown in 2020:

Tower 8, Liberty Sky, CCH, 255 South State, and Block 67 Phase 1 (Residential and Hotel).

There is also the chance that the Theater Tower could put a crane up this year but it would probably be at the end of the year (November or December).

I think this will be the most cranes not working a single project in Downtown history.

[nushiof]

Originally Posted by Makid

I think it was close:

222 S, 90 West, and The Regent

I think there was a time when there were cranes up for all 3 but it was only a short time.

It is possible there will be 4 or 5 tower cranes downtown in 2020:

Tower 8, Liberty Sky, CCH, 255 South State, and Block 67 Phase 1 (Residential and Hotel).

There is also the chance that the Theater Tower could put a crane up this year but it would probably be at the end of the year (November or December).

I think this will be the most cranes not working a single project in Downtown history.

Is there a chance for a Kensington Tower crane too, or is that still a ways out?

[Marvland]

Very exciting times. Also nice to know that there are legit developers on the Theater and Kensington Tower proposals. Also, any feedback on why Held sissied out on the Millennium Tower site? Maybe delay fatigue with the CCH setup dragging on like it did? That site would be a great place for one of our tech oligarchs to build something for their city. AHEM. A boy can dream.

Of all of the towers proposed, I like the Kensington and Theater proposals the best from a design aspect. CCH looks good but I wish they could have not done a shadow-casting wall. Although I think Liberty Sky will actually do the most for the skyline, filling in our gap tooth between WF Tower and One Utah Tower from the west.

EDIT: Any of you photoshop nerds ever take a swing at a massing view with the new towers from my favorite view point: the 10th North overpass looking SE? Alas, I have zero technical skills.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by nushiof

Is there a chance for a Kensington Tower crane too, or is that still a ways out?

My understanding is that demolition of the Carl's Jr. can't happen until later this year around November or December. That doesn't give enough time for a tower crane to go up in 2020.

On the plus side, the same cranes will still be up in 2021 plus Kensington Tower and possibly some other projects that hopefully come to light this year.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Pencil

2020 will be the year of the tower crane for SLC

I’m glad that this project is FINALLY moving forward after all these years, I just wish the building wasn’t going to be so damn W I D E. Nice enough materials I guess, but this will look horrible in the skyline. Its silhouette will cause other buildings to look stubbier than they actually are... I digress. Can’t wait for Kensington, although I won’t be so sure about that one until steel starts to rise!

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Have they dropped the idea of having a big LED screen on the south side of the CCH?

(Previous rendering)

Ditto! I was wondering the same thing Atlas. Anyone know?