Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[misher]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The map from UBC:

Think its going at ground level at UBC? That last station looks like an expensive addition.

[Galaxy]

I think keeping it underground may make more sense in regards to preventing trees from falling onto the guideway and triggering the sensors every time there is bad weather. I keep thinking there may be advancements in technology in terms of boring tunnels that will make tunneling for projects like the Millenium line extension more economically feasible at the same time giving taxpayers more mileage per dollar spent on infrastructure.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I keep thinking there may be advancements in technology in terms of boring tunnels that will make tunneling for projects like the Millenium line extension more economically feasible at the same time giving taxpayers more mileage per dollar spent on infrastructure.

I would sincerely doubt that there will be any significant advancements in technology. Besides, there is already one way to dig tunnels cheaper: cut-and-cover. And IMO, it would be fine to cut-and-cover after Arbutus as we need to get this extension DONE and it would create less hell on Broadway west of Arbutus.

Based on my speculation, and not based on any engineering knowledge; if the UBC extension would follow Broadway then I could see it surfacing and continuing as elevated around the Jericho Lands OR elevating in the centre when it reaches Chancellor BLVD. Elevating the Skytrain at some point when it comes to UBC (or ASAP) would save tunneling costs and it would also be something that the UBC students and faculty wouldn't fight against.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by scryer

And IMO, it would be fine to cut-and-cover after Arbutus as we need to get this extension DONE and it would create less hell on Broadway west of Arbutus.

Do you seriously think anyone on the West Side will allow anything other than a bored tunnel (and they don't even want that for the 'crime train'). They'd put up such a fight with lawsuits that nothing would get done. There are plenty of people there who would be happy if the line stopped at the Canada Line and didn't intrude into their neighbourhood at all.

[swimmer_spe]

Doesn't UBC sit on reclaimed land? That would make a tunnel not be such a good idea when the big one hits.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i dont think at grade would work well around UBC. maybe the portion on University Blvd west of Blanca could, but that would depend on how much of a fight people put up for the tree'd median. for at grade actually in UBC, i think it would create a negative impact on the area. because it would be a literal barrier since there are no crossings and it would have a continuous fence.

elevated or underground would be the only realistic options for inside UBC.

for the portion from Arbutus - Blanca, i don't see anything other than underground happening. there isn't a ton of ROW space to begin with, and the fight with residents would be difficult. i also feel it wouldn't really fit the areas character since once you head that far out west it is just a residential neighbourhood.

i think like how Cambie would have been destroyed by an above ground Canada-Line, the same would happen with the western most portion of the line. (assuming a 10th Av alignment further west)

[Migrant_Coconut]

The analysis calls for an elevated option on East Mall. Even cut n cover seems a bit pricey for the UBC stretch.

It's harder to call it for Alma-Blanca. Though with the Jericho redevelopment (and possibly more to follow, e.g. the Sasamat Safeway), Point Grey is unlikely to remain completely suburban for long...

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Doesn't UBC sit on reclaimed land? That would make a tunnel not be such a good idea when the big one hits.

lol no.








Also, Cambie would have been better off without the mess of cut and cover more than it would be damaged by above-ground.

[officedweller]

The Bombardier bid for Canada Line had a permanent open trench from 49th Ave. to 63rd Ave. in the median of Cambie St.
Neither bidder proposed elevated in the median of Cambie.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by misher

Think its going at ground level at UBC? That last station looks like an expensive addition.

I wonder why they don't take the line up to 16th after Arbutus? Would it not be cheaper to run it above ground along 16th Ave? They could put a station, and density, at 16th and Macdonald, another station at 16th and Dunbar, a station at Wesbrook and then finally north toward the bus loop.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I wonder why they don't take the line up to 16th after Arbutus? Would it not be cheaper to run it above ground along 16th Ave? They could put a station, and density, at 16th and Macdonald, another station at 16th and Dunbar, a station at Wesbrook and then finally north toward the bus loop.

People living on the West Side accepting an above ground Skytrain?!?

They already have a hard enough time accepting a subway through their hallowed ground...

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I wonder why they don't take the line up to 16th after Arbutus? Would it not be cheaper to run it above ground along 16th Ave? They could put a station, and density, at 16th and Macdonald, another station at 16th and Dunbar, a station at Wesbrook and then finally north toward the bus loop.

Then you make the line longer and skip the commercial center in West Broadway, which are amongst the only groups who seem to support the Broadway Subway in Pt. Grey, for a bunch of rando SFHs.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I wonder why they don't take the line up to 16th after Arbutus? Would it not be cheaper to run it above ground along 16th Ave? They could put a station, and density, at 16th and Macdonald, another station at 16th and Dunbar, a station at Wesbrook and then finally north toward the bus loop.

The idea gets resurrected every now and then. Bottom line, both current and future demand is low when compared to Broadway/10th... and relocating the utilities under 16th would raise streetcar's costs back up to $3 billion, let alone SkyTrain's.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Then you make the line longer and skip the commercial center in West Broadway, which are amongst the only groups who seem to support the Broadway Subway in Pt. Grey, for a bunch of rando SFHs.

Yeah I agree. The activity and nature desired travel lines are along W Broadway/10th. That's where SkyTrain should be. I find it baffling how often cities separate their rapid transit from their activity corridors. The two strengthen each other immensely.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Yeah I agree. The activity and nature desired travel lines are along W Broadway/10th. That's where SkyTrain should be. I find it baffling how often cities separate their rapid transit from their activity corridors. The two strengthen each other immensely.

We do have experience with that, it was called Millennium Line Phase 1. Unintentional or not, it caused so much damage to Skytrain’s reputation due to low ridership it indirectly caused the Canada Line fiasco.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by fredinno

We do have experience with that, it was called Millennium Line Phase 1. Unintentional or not, it caused so much damage to Skytrain’s reputation due to low ridership it indirectly caused the Canada Line fiasco.

Thing is, if the ultimate goal was a crosstown route from UBC to Coquitlam and Beyond, Lougheed Highway was probably the best corridor for it. Whether it should have been built as the first phase though is another matter...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by fredinno

We do have experience with that, it was called Millennium Line Phase 1. Unintentional or not, it caused so much damage to Skytrain’s reputation due to low ridership it indirectly caused the Canada Line fiasco.

The Broadway extension, even when it terminates at Arbutus, is certainly not going to suffer from low ridership.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Thing is, if the ultimate goal was a crosstown route from UBC to Coquitlam and Beyond, Lougheed Highway was probably the best corridor for it. Whether it should have been built as the first phase though is another matter...

That’s my point.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The Broadway extension, even when it terminates at Arbutus, is certainly not going to suffer from low ridership.

Millennium Line Phase 1

[logan5]

Was just thinking as an alternative to Skytrain subway that costs 3 billion to go to Arbutus, how much would a bus tunnel cost? A bus tunnel would be much simpler, ie no rail infrastructure, and far less electrical infrastructure for a battery powered bus, just a simple roadway. Driverless technology would mean a BRT service could match the capacity of Skytrain, while still realizing the labour cost benefits.

Maybe down the road consider bus tunnels for Hastings or 41st. There are some serious cost savings and system advantages to such a set up.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by logan5

Was just thinking as an alternative to Skytrain subway that costs 3 billion to go to Arbutus, how much would a bus tunnel cost? A bus tunnel would be much simpler, ie no rail infrastructure, and far less electrical infrastructure for a battery powered bus, just a simple roadway. Driverless technology would mean a BRT service could match the capacity of Skytrain, while still realizing the labour cost benefits.

Maybe down the road consider bus tunnels for Hastings or 41st. There are some serious cost savings and system advantages to such a set up.

Vehicle emissions will require much more complicated, robust ventilation systems. Besides, the majority of the cost comes from the tunnel construction. If you can afford to tunnel it, you can afford to add rail.