DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I'm pretty sure nobody actually prefers to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 in the street. I'm sure anyone going through a mental breakdown would also not prefer to do it in public. Outlawing homelessness in not how you stop homelessness. Legalizing urban camping (or whatever you want to call it) would be completely invisible if most of those people had actual homes to go to, drug rehab programs, and mental health facilities. The result is the same. Less homeless on the street. The homeless by preference folks are a vast, vast minority. So are the mentally ill, aggressive panhandler types that we all want to use as the stereotype. The homeless are a lot more diverse than what you see.

I think you may have your statistics backwards especially with respect to the 'exceptions'.

Legalizing urban camping is no different from what currently exists except they could squat wherever they wanted unbothered regardless how high the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 piles up. That's not a solution.

I suggested previously: find a designated area to set aside for camping that includes basic human services.

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

find a designated area to set aside for camping that includes basic human services.

We have those - they're called campgrounds.

[twister244]

One solution is that if you are so screwed up mentally, or on drugs that you feel the need to act out in public areas, 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the sidewalks, or leave needles everywhere... then guess what, you get the following choices:
1) Involuntary drug rehab
2) Involuntary mental care to address your needs
3.) Jail

So which is it? These are folks that probably won't go willingly on their own, so you will have to force it on them. Are folks ok with that? There seems to be this weird area where we don't want to stuff homeless folks under a bridge to be unseen, but not force them into a situation involuntarily.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Not really; in reality it's everybody's problem. But let's put the moralizing aside since you offered no solutions.

I was trying to keep my comments brief as my comments are meant largely rhetorically and deliberately did not go in to solutions. That said, others have already put the solution on the table and I alluded to it in my most recent post. Permanent Supportive Housing. It works and we need a lot more of it. I don't have much more to say on that point.

Originally Posted by TakeFive

twister244 has it exactly right.

Being homeless doesn't give one the right to spoil the environment for everybody else. Leaving used needles scattered around is a health hazard etc etc.

I think what you are talking about are all specific illegal behaviors that can be dealt with without a camping ban. Having a house and a means of living doesn't give us the right to literally toss human beings out of the city with no resources like a baby in a Greek myth being left to the wolves.

Because that is what we're talking about right? If not Denver, then where? Westminster? Sheridan? Unincorporated Adams County? If this is a blanket policy of nowhere public, anywhere at anytime, and no trespassing on private property either, then what solution exactly is left? As far as I'm concerned, we can either find a REAL solution, or we can deal with all of the problems that homelessness leaves behind in our public spaces.

I'm sorry, I don't like these sensitive topics any more than everyone else, but I can't just stay silent and let The Dirt be the only one speaking without callous disregard for these people.

Originally Posted by twister244

One solution is that if you are so screwed up mentally, or on drugs that you feel the need to act out in public areas, 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the sidewalks, or leave needles everywhere... then guess what, you get the following choices:
1) Involuntary drug rehab
2) Involuntary mental care to address your needs
3.) Jail

Edit: Last thing I'm going to say about this.

You left out option 4. Build some basic, safe housing (PSH). This is a well documented solution. Sometimes it comes with involuntary drug rehab and mental health, sometimes those services are voluntary. Either way, it works.

But forget the moralistic part for second (as if sending somebody to jail for hitting rock bottom in life makes any moral sense at all). Are you really going to suggest that building enough jails to house every homeless person is a wise use of resources? These are enormous structures with extensive security and all the cost that comes along with it. Just build some damn basic apartments and fight the inevitable NIMBY battles (that you'll likely have to fight to build more jails and drug rehab centers anyway). It is not against the law to be broke and not have a place to live.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

We have those - they're called campgrounds.

Exactly; just need one or two named Homeless Haven and Homeless Heaven.

Originally Posted by mr1138

I think what you are talking about are all specific illegal behaviors that can be dealt with without a camping ban. Having a house and a means of living doesn't give us the right to literally toss human beings out of the city with no resources like a baby in a Greek myth being left to the wolves.

Mayor Hickenlooper passed and funded "The Road Home" to eliminate homelessness in ten years - in 2004.

The hyperbole is neither accurate nor a solution but read below:

Up next: Houston
Source: https://www.texastribune.org/2019/07/02/why-homelessness-going-down-houston-dallas/

Houston is the 4th largest city by population (Phx is 5th) with over 2.3 million people. Based on the same company that does Denver's count, Houston reports less than 4,000 homeless. This is down from 7,500 in 2010 which correlated with the bottom of the recession.

I agree with mr1138 with respect to housing. In Houston:

Although there are still challenges like encampments in different parts of the city, since 2012, Houston has housed around 17,000 formerly homeless people, according to the Coalition for the Homeless. Many are connected with supportive services.

“If you have a homeless person and you put them in [permanent supportive housing] and simultaneously give them social, behavioral and health support services, 92% of them will be stable in that facility,” Nichols said.

But there’s a secret in Houston’s formula: coordination.

Article points out how Houston started coordinating among all the various agencies and volunteer groups:

The scenario from 20 years ago, when different organizations would serve food, give clothes or offer shelter — all done separately — has changed. There’s now constant communication between these institutions and a digital database called the Homeless Management Information System, which allows people at several organizations to understand each case. Most cities today have HMIS in place, but Houston was quick to adopt it, and that helped organizations strategize, analyze, share information and find personalized solutions.

So there... is your fix.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twister244

One solution is that if you are so screwed up mentally, or on drugs that you feel the need to act out in public areas, 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on the sidewalks, or leave needles everywhere... then guess what, you get the following choices:
1) Involuntary drug rehab
2) Involuntary mental care to address your needs
3.) Jail

So which is it? These are folks that probably won't go willingly on their own, so you will have to force it on them. Are folks ok with that? There seems to be this weird area where we don't want to stuff homeless folks under a bridge to be unseen, but not force them into a situation involuntarily.

Despite more of a tough love concept to suggest we want be inhumane to poor souls that only need a little help is not appropriate or constructive.

Originally Posted by mr1138

You left out option 4. Build some basic, safe housing (PSH). This is a well documented solution. Sometimes it comes with involuntary drug rehab and mental health, sometimes those services are voluntary. Either way, it works.

Dude, why didn't you bring this up in your first post. I didn't know what PSH (Permanent Safe Housing) even was or specifically how it worked until I read about Houston. This is obviously, presumably what they have done. If Denver had a proportional amount of homelessness to Houston it would only be 1,200 people. How different would that be?

That won't solve the recalcitrant group who only wants to live wherever they want. That's a different issue needing a different tough love approach.

[RyanD]

X Denver 2 has a tower crane up right next to 1. Here's from my patio a little bit ago:

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by RyanD

X Denver 2 has a tower crane up right next to 1. Here's from my patio a little bit ago:

Thanks, Ryan! Is this supposed to a comparably tall residential project to X1? The city's site development map says that it is a 5-story garage.

[bulldurhamer]

the wtc site is totally fenced off now.

radio silence from the world though. who has a scoop for us? have new permits been issued?

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Thanks, Ryan! Is this supposed to a comparably tall residential project to X1? The city's site development map says that it is a 5-story garage.

It's a 12-story building, just like X1, with the garage on levels 2-6.

Also, a construction permit has been filed for X3 in Arapahoe Square.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

the wtc site is totally fenced off now.

radio silence from the world though. who has a scoop for us? have new permits been issued?

They have a lot going on with the city but no commercial construction permit just yet. The last filed item was erosion control back in October.

Edit: Here are a few more things that have happened since I last stalked a couple projects:

Marriott (next to Spire) is gearing up, they filed a foundation permit late November.

The re-skin of the CenturyLink building on 15th is starting. There are signs on the door stating it's a construction zone.

Block 176 (18th and Glenarm) filed a transportation plan on 11/27/19. It's slowly chugging along.

10th and Acoma is fully under-construction. The parking lot is pretty much gone.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by RyanD

They have a lot going on with the city but no commercial construction permit just yet. The last filed item was erosion control back in October.

Edit: Here are a few more things that have happened since I last stalked a couple projects:

Marriott (next to Spire) is gearing up, they filed a foundation permit late November.

The re-skin of the CenturyLink building on 15th is starting. There are signs on the door stating it's a construction zone.

Block 176 (18th and Glenarm) filed a transportation plan on 11/27/19. It's slowly chugging along.

10th and Acoma is fully under-construction. The parking lot is pretty much gone.

Hell yeah! It seems like 2019 really saved the best for last from a new development standpoint. Of all projects, I am probably most interested in Block 176 but the Marriott, although it is not a uniquely tall building, will still positively impact the skyline when viewed from the west. I am also excited to see any parking lot, such as that one, that is literally within one-block of a light rail station bite the dust

As I have been walking around town the past few weeks, it is interesting noting how various neighborhoods are in different stages of development.

Lodo - seems like it is 80-85% developed and will be at 95% in about two years once Market Station, McGregor Square, the Thompson Hotel, and the Fitzgerald are complete.

Union Station - 90% complete. There are really just those two lots near the Hilton Garden Inn, within one of them in the review process for microapartments! If you include Union Station North, that neighborhood will be pretty close to completion in a few years from the projects on Inca and Huron.

RiNo - 35-45% complete. It is hard to overestimate the vastness of RiNo if you use the more liberal boundaries. 38th and Blake can become a pretty dense, Union Station-y, transit oriented development if all these projects come to fruition. As of now, I still feel that there is a lot of underutilized, industrial land in Rino (I am thinking primarily between 36th and 38th, Arkins Ct and Brighton Blvd). It will be interesting to see how different RiNo is in 2030.

Golden Triangle - 50-60% complete. Lennar is buying up a lot of land around bannock and acoma. If that single developer moves on all of their projects, I would imagine Golden Triangle would be our most dense residential neighborhood. Still a lot of lots off 13th avenue that I would like to see better utilized considering their proximity to downtown, civic center, and the art museum. It will be interesting to see Golden Triangle in 5 to 7 years.

Arapahoe Square - 5% complete. There is a lot of movement now that developers are availing themselves of the rezoning. I imagine it will take more than 10 years before Arapahoe Square starts to resemble its potential.

River North - I would say that this is probably multiple decades out from manifesting itself as it is envisioned.

Broadway Station - Hopefully, this neighborhood will be significantly more activated in about 5-7 years once the Gates District, Santa Fe Yards, and Santa Fe residential hopefully come online.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Thanks, Ryan! Is this supposed to a comparably tall residential project to X1? The city's site development map says that it is a 5-story garage.

You don't want to know what it looks like- just thank God that it's pretty much tucked away.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by RyanD

They have a lot going on with the city but no commercial construction permit just yet. The last filed item was erosion control back in October.

Edit: Here are a few more things that have happened since I last stalked a couple projects:

Marriott (next to Spire) is gearing up, they filed a foundation permit late November.

The re-skin of the CenturyLink building on 15th is starting. There are signs on the door stating it's a construction zone.

Block 176 (18th and Glenarm) filed a transportation plan on 11/27/19. It's slowly chugging along.

10th and Acoma is fully under-construction. The parking lot is pretty much gone.

Very nice to hear WTC is moving forward. Looking forward to seeing a groundbreaking there soon!

I will reserve my excitement for 176 until I see a sales website...... Call me overly cautious but all the permits in the world can get filed, but if they aren't selling any units yet, the whole thing can go 🞵🞵🞵🞵 pretty fast.

On a side note, I go by the Ascent in the US neighborhood everyday and have been pleasantly surprised by how that apartment building panned out.

Still no movement on the 26th/Alcott site.

Super excited to see Market Station complete this upcoming year too!

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Union Station - 90% complete. There are really just those two lots near the Hilton Garden Inn, within one of them in the review process for microapartments!

This one kind of is stagnate on the permits side, nor do we even have a rendering of it. I'm surprised those lots are still unaccounted for in Union Station to be honest. I know 19th and Chestnut isn't prime Union Station (I live on that side) but it would be nice to have the rest of the neighborhood built out.

[Ich]

Originally Posted by RyanD

They have a lot going on with the city but no commercial construction permit just yet. The last filed item was erosion control back in October.

Edit: Here are a few more things that have happened since I last stalked a couple projects:

Marriott (next to Spire) is gearing up, they filed a foundation permit late November.

The re-skin of the CenturyLink building on 15th is starting. There are signs on the door stating it's a construction zone.

Block 176 (18th and Glenarm) filed a transportation plan on 11/27/19. It's slowly chugging along.

10th and Acoma is fully under-construction. The parking lot is pretty much gone.

Have you heard anything about the lot Greystar purchased at Welton and Park Ave? I don’t mind Alexan 20th and Radius but Alexan Arapahoe Square is pretty rough looking. Hoping they build something nicer and block out the Alexan haha.

[rds70]

A couple of new renderings of the Modera Golden Triangle project planned at 11th and Bannock:

[DenvertoLA]

Does this make 3 duel tower proposals in the pipeline? If the darker portion of those towers are brick, I think they could turn out really nice.

With all these 1000s of new units in GT, I hope the city will put forward some ideas on how to make Speer more friendly to walk cross.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Does this make 3 duel tower proposals in the pipeline? If the darker portion of those towers are brick, I think they could turn out really nice.

With all these 1000s of new units in GT, I hope the city will put forward some ideas on how to make Speer more friendly to walk cross.

Wow... what corner is this going in? Replacing the “Fusion” building or the Rocky Mountain” building?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by rds70

A couple of new renderings of the Modera Golden Triangle project planned at 11th and Bannock:

Those are nice. Props to Mill Creek.

If Tom's happy then I'm happy


Photo credit: Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite

Tom’s Diner added to National Register of Historic Places, preserving its life on Colfax
Dec 21, 2019 By Kevin Beaty - Denverite

But Messina confirmed that the building itself is not going anywhere and, what’s more, that he’s “thrilled.” He told Denverite that his deal with Cleveland-based GBX Group is a “win-win” that satisfies his future plans. He’ll still be involved, but in a “more exciting capacity” as the diner is eventually rebranded.

Neither Messina nor the press release said exactly how this will all go down, but the latter said GBX would utilize tax credits and deductions for historic properties that establish “a balance between economic realities and preserving a historically important property.”

EDIT: So I googled for GBX Group

GBX Group LLC specializes in preserving and operating historic real estate in urban markets. GBX partners with property owners, developers, and local preservation organizations to acquire, redevelop, and preserve historic real estate, generating community revitalization and economic growth. Since its founding in 2001, GBX has completed over 100 projects in 18 states.

EDIT: I also found the press release from GBX

Details are being finalized. But what is known is that GBX Group, in line with its business model, intends to do its best to preserve and rehabilitate Tom's Diner so that the building façade and important interior elements will be retained in line with its historic character.

Annie Levinsky, Executive Director of Historic Denver, an organization involved in the dialogue, said... "There had to be a solution that benefited everyone and that's when Historic Denver reached out to GBX Group. They were instrumental in protecting the nearby historic George Schleier Mansion, and we knew they could help."