The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.insidehalton.com/news-story/...ington-to-pearson-international-airport/

Extra stop at Burlington North (Dundas Street & Highway 407) for the 24-hour airport-run Go bus (40) will be effective starting January 11, 2020.

[mintzilla]

Question for the Calgary posters. how is your lrt expansion faring under führer Kenny's austerity regime? hopefully the money has been locked in.

[milomilo]

He hasn't fully cut the funding, but minimised the amount to be paid in the first few years and made it easier to cancel. And if anyone complains, he tells the city to shut up and get their house in order, and makes up blatant lies about how the NDP 'cut the line in half'.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

Question for the Calgary posters. how is your lrt expansion faring under führer Kenny's austerity regime? hopefully the money has been locked in.

Even with the Province restructuring their funding to be backloaded, the Green Line problems are from the City massively under-estimating the construction cost and even after that, still under-estimating the challenge (and cost) of tunneling through the downtown and under the river. Even if all $4.9B was locked in, it's clear now that it still wouldn't have been enough to build the original 4 km tunnel while reaching the maintenance yard in the SE.

[mintzilla]

^ wow north of 5 billion is an insane number. i had no clue the costs had escalated like that.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

^ wow north of 5 billion is an insane number. i had no clue the costs had escalated like that.

And that's just for half of the line (that doesn't quite reach the high ridership communities). The original vision was a 40 km line stretching from the heart of NC Calgary to the edge of the SE, for $4.5-$5B. Now with the most recent numbers, that same 40km will cost upwards of $9B. Even if they are able the build Stage 1 fully, it's going to be decades before funding is available to complete the rest.

[TorontoDrew]

CBC is reporting the CONS in Ontario secretly scrapped funding and studies for high speed rail in the province back in April of this year.

source: https://rabble.ca


Ontario's dream of a bullet train may have died a quiet death

Colin Butler · CBC News · Posted: Dec 18



Paul Langan thinks Ontario's dream of a bullet train has already died a quiet death.

The President of High Speed Rail Canada, an organization dedicated to passenger rail advocacy and the promotion of high speed rail in Canada, thinks the dream was euthanized by the Ontario government in April. That's when the Progressive Conservatives announced they would hit the 'pause' button on bankrolling the $11 billion project.

"I don't see that pause button going to a move forward button," he said. "They're just going to shelve it."

After Monday's sudden and tumultuous backtrack on paying for Hamilton's LRT by Ontario's Progressive Conservative government, many transit experts think a bullet train from Toronto to Windsor is now unlikely to happen

When high speed rail was first proposed by under the previous Liberal government, it offered people from Windsor to Guelph the dazzling prospect of being comfortably whisked to Toronto in half the travel time. It meant they could have a big city job without having to pay the average million dollar price for a big city home.

full story: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/on...ronto-kitchener-london-windsor-1.5397934

[niwell]

I'm not too concerned about the high speed train, as that was always a bit of a pipe dream. Seems best to do some very high level studies to identify and protect as much ROW for a potential future route as possible, though.

[kool maudit]

First we must master regular trains.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

First we must master regular trains.

Not really - fast trains can cover more of their costs in some applications, and in many applications cover at least the incremental cost upgrade from high frequency regular trains.

[swimmer_spe]

Here is my thinking - Unless it is more divided highways where he goes, or it is a subway line, it is dead. If it has already been funded, it might be ok.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Here is my thinking - Unless it is more divided highways where he goes, or it is a subway line, it is dead. If it has already been funded, it might be ok.

Transit City was fully funded until DoFo and RoFo tore up theplans for it. Now we are decades behind.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Transit City was fully funded until DoFo and RoFo tore up theplans for it. Now we are decades behind.

So, in short, I am right?

[J.OT13]

I'm fine with canceling the high-speed rail project. GO Transit is already stepping on VIA's toes and this would make it worse. Leave long-distance inter-city rail to VIA. Be it HFR or HSR (I believe that the Québec City-Windsor corridor can justify HSR, but I know that won't happen).

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, in short, I am right?

Yup, though even DoFo's Ontario Line won't move along as smoothly like he would want. Expect a huge fight from Toronto's east end that what was supposed to have been always been an underground system is now planned at grade.

[ssiguy]

This slow death report does nothing but confirm what everyone already. knew It was a stupid idea to begin with but it helped Wynne get re-elected and that was it's raison d'etre.

The sad part is that this has resulted in more delays in bring superior rail service to SWO, one of VIA's highest volume routes and the one with the lowest per-rider subsidy in the entire network.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Not burying all of the relief line is one of the few smart things the PC's have spurred. There is a rail corridor paralleling the line which will enable cross-platform transfers to GO at the MAJOR East Harbour Station. Not to mention the costs saved not building a super deep tunnel that requires 5 minutes just to access.

Are you not concerned about creating a choke point on the LSE corridor? I fear that another one or two mainline rail tracks will eventually be needed with frequency being increased on the Stouffville and LSE services (especially considering the expected frequency of Smart Track) and it doesn't seem that the corridor has that much spare breathing room. Once two subway tracks are shoe-horned in, the only way to expand further would be expensive and disruptive expropriation and demolition.

It just seems ridiculous considering the entire Spadina subway extension was underground (over 7km) and the 6km Danforth extension is planned to be totally underground as well while the Ontario line is only saving about 2km of tunneling in a setting where surface/elevated running is much more challenging from a space and noise perspective.

[SteelTown]

Oh Mayor Fred is PISSED, as he ought to be. Here's his letter to the Premier.

Dear Premier Ford,

Hamilton is reeling from your decision to cancel Hamilton’s massive LRT investment.

This investment would have created hundreds of jobs, economic uplift, increased affordable housing, cut CO2 emissions and built a City of Hamilton ready for the future.

Instead, millions of dollars have been wasted doing advance engineering work and preparations. Metrolinx is now one of the largest landlords in the city after acquiring dozens of properties needed for the route.

Your Minister failed to share information and dispensed with engaging in any constructive dialogue. Following repeated requests, we received the preliminary cost estimates late last Thursday, December 12 but were not afforded an opportunity to discuss the estimates prior to the meeting Minister Mulroney on Monday December 17 just prior to her announcement of the cancellation of the project.

I called this a “betrayal” and I stand by that. This is a personal betrayal by you as Premier. You said November 28, 2018: "When people democratically elect someone, if he wants an LRT, he's gonna get an LRT,” adding “that’s democracy.”

Furthermore, you sent your then transportation minister, Jeff Yurek, to Hamilton on April 10, 2019, to confirm to me face-to-face that your government was backing the LRT project.

I thought you were a man of your word, but I was wrong. That is why I now call this a betrayal.

City staff received preliminary cost estimates from the MTO last Thursday, December 12, and were never afforded an opportunity to ask the following questions:

* What were the design assumptions and costing methodologies used to derive the estimates, and if these have been revised, how so, and to what financial effect?
* There is a notable increase in capital construction cost, over and above significant allowances for contingency and escalation, what is contributing the increase? Also, what information is the Province drawing upon for adjusting contingency and escalation allowances?
* What factors are contributing to dissimilar capital construction cost estimates referenced in the information provided?
* What are the details associated with the costs allocated to Provincial lifecycle and long-term financing and how do these differ from the original estimate?
* What are the details associated with the costs allocated to “Other Costs” and, similarly, how do these differ from the original estimate?
* There appears to be a discrepancy, based on the referenced assumptions, in how “City” costs are calculated and escalated on the last page. How were these costs derived and what methodology was used to inflate/escalate the costs from current dollars to future dollars? It should be noted, based on the referenced assumption, and a revised calculation, there doesn’t appear to be much change in this cost estimate versus other cost estimates reported publicly.
* City Council and the people of Hamilton deserve these answers. I look forward to your prompt reply.

Yours truly,

Fred Eisenberger
Mayor

[SteelTown]

In addition to the letter Mayor Fred leaked or released the confidential report on the LRT provincial cost estimates, $5 billion price tag.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6586383/PRIVATE-and-CONFIDENTIAL-ATTACHMENT-2.pdf