CANZUK International - "merger" of UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I never said "whites only" if you read what I wrote. (That's actually pretty much outside the realm of possibility in today's world.)

That said, at the moment, immigrant applicants in (I assume) all of the CANZUK countries aren't given any more consideration due to being from CANZUK than people from Bangladesh or Brazil are.

But if we were to give our CANZUK brethren preferential treatment (as in fast-tracking and being less demanding with their applications) then that might in fact lead to a greater share of immigration movements being between the CANZUK countries. It's actually extremely likely that that would happen. To what degree I have no idea but given the demographics at play this would make the share of white immigrants increase in all of them, I am pretty sure.

Migration of whites between these counties is not going to magically increase the net share of the white population of these countries. If one gains a white person the other loses a white person.

This is basic math dude...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by misher

Plus I'm still down for inviting the 2 other major nations of the Commonwealth in (the two where Caucasian isn't the majority) if we set certain rules to prevent mass migration. Jamaica doesn't seem that bad besides the high crime rate? We have a lot of Jamaican immigrants in all 4 nations anyway.

What are the "2 other major nations of the Commonwealth" which aren't majority Caucasian anyway?

The four biggest Commonweath countries are all non-CANZUK: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria. India has over a billion people and the other three have over 150 million people, so three times as populous as the UK.

Tanzania, Uganda, South Africa and Kenya all have about the same population as the UK.

Jamaica is way down the list, and has a similar population to Atlantic Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Migration of whites between these counties is not going to magically increase the net share of the white population of these countries. If one gains a white person the other loses a white person.

This is basic math dude...

Again, I never talked about increasing the net share of the white population, but I suppose if a greater share of immigrants were white, there might be a slight effect.

That said, my hypothesis that the share of immigrants to CANZUK countries who are white could increase is still totally plausible. If only because putting applications from these countries at the top of the pile might result in more migration-minded CANZUKians staying within those countries, as opposed to migrating to continental Europe, the U.S., or other places.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by misher

Meh all 4 of us have a ton of immigrants from minorities.
.

The UK is about 85% white, and Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about 75% white.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What are the "2 other major nations of the Commonwealth" which aren't majority Caucasian anyway?

The four biggest Commonweath countries are all non-CANZUK: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria. India has over a billion people and the other three have over 150 million people, so three times as populous as the UK.

Tanzania, Uganda, South Africa and Kenya all have about the same population as the UK.

Jamaica is way down the list, and has a similar population to Atlantic Canada.

I am similarly confused as to what they would be. I'd assume India would be one, but there isn't exactly a clear additional standout by most criteria.

Unless they meant the Commonwealth Realm, in which the largest non-CANZUK countries would be Papua New Guinea followed by Jamaica!

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What are the "2 other major nations of the Commonwealth" which aren't majority Caucasian anyway?

The four biggest Commonweath countries are all non-CANZUK: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria. India has over a billion people and the other three have over 150 million people, so three times as populous as the UK.

Tanzania, Uganda, South Africa and Kenya all have about the same population as the UK.

Jamaica is way down the list, and has a similar population to Atlantic Canada.

By Commonwealth he means the Commonwealth Realms, those countries that specifically have the Queen as head of state. There are 16 such countries including the 4 CANZUK states. The other 12 are all countries in the South Pacific and Carribean regions. Of them, the "2 largest" he's referring to are Papua New Guinea (with 8 million people) and Jamaica (with 3 million). The remaining 10 (8 in the Carribean and 2 in the South Pacific) all have less than one million people each.

misher brought up the point that an EU style union of the Commonwealth Realms could take advantage of the shared Crown as a legal basis for a union.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Again, I never talked about increasing the net share of the white population, but I suppose if a greater share of immigrants were white, there might be a slight effect.

That said, my hypothesis that the share of immigrants to CANZUK countries who are white could increase is still totally plausible. If only because putting applications from these countries at the top of the pile might result in more migration-minded CANZUKians staying within those countries, as opposed to migrating to continental Europe, the U.S., or other places.

Even if it did become majority white, so what? Is being white now all of a sudden considered racist in and of itself? The majority of our immigration is now Asian. Are we giving preferential treatment to Asians now? Perhaps this is "racist" because people with brown and yellow skin are seen as preferred citizens than those with white skin. Where is the concern there?

I mean, we can spin this stupidity in many directions just to create some "outrage" to get all worked up over. And sadly, this is what our society seems to enjoy doing nowadays.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The UK is about 85% white, and Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about 75% white.

Again, so what?

[Acajack]

I don't care about racial population composition, but it's not false that some see CANZUK as a sinister plot to stymie or at least reduce the share of immigration that comes from countries where European-descended people are not very present.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't care about racial population composition, but it's not false that some see CANZUK as a sinister plot to stymie or at least reduce the share of immigration that comes from countries where European-descended people are not very present.

Well, if that is the way they percieve it, that is their choice. Let them be outraged!

[Chadillaccc]

I voted no, because we are on three separate continents with two of the four countries being anitpodal to the other two, so it just sounds stupid. Maybe once orbital jet travel is viable and then drops in price by 95% it wouldn't be stupid? I don't know.

[misher]

Originally Posted by CityTech

By Commonwealth he means the Commonwealth Realms, those countries that specifically have the Queen as head of state. There are 16 such countries including the 4 CANZUK states. The other 12 are all countries in the South Pacific and Carribean regions. Of them, the "2 largest" he's referring to are Papua New Guinea (with 8 million people) and Jamaica (with 3 million). The remaining 10 (8 in the Carribean and 2 in the South Pacific) all have less than one million people each.

misher brought up the point that an EU style union of the Commonwealth Realms could take advantage of the shared Crown as a legal basis for a union.

Thanks for paying attention and saying it for me.

Given that CANZUK is uniting 80%+ of the people of the Commonwealth it makes sense to just include the remainder and then instead of forming an entirely new alliance we have something already in place we could build on. It does make some sense that people with the same ruler can move between and trade between two areas of their empire? There's also the issue of loyalty where each military and diploatic contingent is working on behalf of their home nation. A singular shared ruler allows everyone to push that we are all working for the Crown and I know it seems useless but it makes a big difference, military traditions help build a strong military. Canadians feel little allegiance to NATO or NAFTA but a stronger Commonwealth is something us and other members could get behind.

I also think we could play on our shared history and traditions to develop a mediation system or council system that serves as the crowns representative both to mediate between member nations and tackle diplomacy (Which is a formality the crown would have no real power).

I assume having free trade with ports all over the world would supercharge our marine industry and trade.

In the past we've had wars over land but I suspect the modern fight is one over influence over the sea, all these islands and an alliance of some of the strongest naval powers would help keep America/China/Russia away from our Arctic and all these islands would help us control the sea.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't care about racial population composition, but it's not false that some see CANZUK as a sinister plot to stymie or at least reduce the share of immigration that comes from countries where European-descended people are not very present.

It's more that Canzuk would have to share immigration policy to a certain level. Compared to Canada at least, Australia and the UK are both accumulating xenophobic notches in their belts lately. Even for all the pragmatic appeal behind an EU-style commonwealth, I'd still want nothing to do with Nauru or windrush-style immigration politics

[misher]

Originally Posted by biguc

It's more that Canzuk would have to share immigration policy to a certain level. Compared to Canada at least, Australia and the UK are both accumulating xenophobic notches in their belts lately. Even for all the pragmatic appeal behind an EU-style commonwealth, I'd still want nothing to do with Nauru or windrush-style immigration politics

Depends where you are in Canada and what color your skin is.

[Mod edit: cite your source and only post a couple paragraphs at most. Otherwise it is copyright infringement.]

[goodgrowth]

Acajack in a nutshell:

"This could lead to an increase in white people."

[Gets rebutted]

"I never said this could lead to a increase in white people! What I am trying to say is that this could lead to an increase in white people. Get it straight!"

Rinse repeat.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Acajack in a nutshell:

"This could lead to an increase in white people."

[Gets rebutted]

"I never said this could lead to a increase in white people! What I am trying to say is that this could lead to an increase in white people. Get it straight!"

Rinse repeat.

The point is that some people see CANZUK as a racist or white supremacist conspiracy - rightly or wrongly. I have no idea.

It's not hard to find tons of articles about how it's a ploy to create an exclusive club of (mostly) white former British colonies, to the exclusion of other Commonwealth realms or countries who (allegedly) don't pass the pigmentation test.

I don't have any skin in this game other than the fact that I hold a Canadian passport and am resident of Canada, but I do think given how persistent these criticisms are this angle of the discussion merited being brought up.

And no, saying "duh, all of the CANZUK countries aren't predominantly white - they're all diverse rainbow nations!" is not an effective rebuttal.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The point is that some people see CANZUK as a racist or white supremacist conspiracy - rightly or wrongly. I have no idea.

It's not hard to find tons of articles about how it's a ploy to create an exclusive club of (mostly) white former British colonies, to the exclusion of other Commonwealth realms or countries who (allegedly) don't pass the pigmentation test.

I don't have any skin in this game other than the fact that I hold a Canadian passport and am resident of Canada, but I do think given how persistent these criticisms are this angle of the discussion merited being brought up.

And no, saying "duh, all of the CANZUK countries aren't predominantly white - they're all diverse rainbow nations!" is not an effective rebuttal.

Which is why making it an extension of the Commonwealth makes sense ^^ You'd include two minor nations with majorities that are asian and black. CANZUK takes 4 of the 6 major nations, the ones that are predominantly white. In that sense it does seem a tad racist.

[theman23]

Perhaps we should shelve the discussion about the potential racism of a CANZUK union until someone who actually believes in that view point appears, as opposed to someone who simply brings it up to play the role of a clumsy and poorly informed devils advocate.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by theman23

Perhaps we should shelve the discussion about the potential racism of a CANZUK union until someone who actually believes in that view point appears, as opposed to someone who simply brings it up to play the role of a clumsy and poorly informed devils advocate.

LoOk I'm NoT tRyInG tO iMpLy tHaT tHiS iS rAcIsM oR sOmE wHiTe SuPrEmAcEy CoNsPiRaCy. AlL i'M sAyInG iS iF NAZIZUK hApPeNs, SuPrEmE cOmMaNdEr BoRrIs JoHnSoN(Hitler) wIlL iNiTiAtE wOrLd WaR 3 .

[Pinus]

^^ Basically. We have to remember that in today's day and age, being white is a very very bad thing. All white people are inherently evil, racist Nazis who have brought human kind to the brink of extinction, because no other race of human being is capable of being evil. And all white people hate divesity and multiculturalism. And to defend ourselves is to admit to all of this.

#beingwhiteisbad #whiteiswrong