Harbour Air to become the world's first airline with electric-only aircraft

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Seriously, happy for Harbour Air, but "making short- to mid-range flights more economical than driving" sounds really optimistic.

Well, trips to the Island on the ferries wouldn't be too hard to beat...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Well, trips to the Island on the ferries wouldn't be too hard to beat...

Unless electrification can get a Vancouver-Victoria trip down to less than sixty bucks a flight (ferry prices for vehicles), I suspect that the seaplanes are still going to be a "business class" service - albeit a more widespread one.

[Marshal]

I know a number of people who gladly pay the premium to the gulf islands . . . the double ferry trip is a killer for many.

[jollyburger]

Maybe in the summer when the weather is nice, but then there's all the times of the year when floating on a slow ferry seems more appealing.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Unless electrification can get a Vancouver-Victoria trip down to less than sixty bucks a flight (ferry prices for vehicles), I suspect that the seaplanes are still going to be a "business class" service - albeit a more widespread one.

A 30 minute downtown to downtown trip is a lot different that the Ferry debacle for people who live in the densest parts of the Lower Mainland.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

??? What exactly are you saying here? There's one battery in the aircraft, and it's not likely to be easily swappable as these things are very heavy. The 60kWh battery in my Chevy Bolt weighs 1000 lbs, and the aircraft is probably going to need something larger than that.

who knows where the technology or regulations will take us, however, battery swapping is not crazy science.

Also 1000 lbs is not that much weight. Currently, the beaver already has a fuel capacity of somewhere between 800-1200 lbs. This gets transported somehow. Perhaps, changing a seaplane battery in water might get complicated, but it's do-able.

[WarrenC12]

Battery is 200kWh and uses 50% capacity to fly, another 50% is there as a failsafe. They are saying the charge time will be 1 hr (so 100kW charger I guess). This is quite reasonable in the grand scheme of things and they could get faster/better in the future.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A 30 minute downtown to downtown trip is a lot different that the Ferry debacle for people who live in the densest parts of the Lower Mainland.

No doubt... but can the average driver afford it? An electric seaplane is still a seaplane even at 1/3 operating cost, so Harbour Air's got a long way to go before they can branch out into coach class like the the CEO wants to.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No doubt... but can the average driver afford it? An electric seaplane is still a seaplane even at 1/3 operating cost, so Harbour Air's got a long way to go before they can branch out into coach class like the the CEO wants to.

Free market baby!!

I would expect the end result to be cheaper flights, and perhaps some guilty reduction for a zero emissions flight.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Free market baby!!

I would expect the end result to be cheaper flights, and perhaps some guilty reduction for a zero emissions flight.

Not really, since labour costs actually make up a ton of the costs behind the ticket.

Pilots aren't cheap; the starting pay scale from what I've heard at Harbour Air is about $25 an hour for duty time, with a guarantee of about 75 hours every 2 weeks. And the more experienced pilot you are, the higher the scale goes.

Factor in other stuff, such as overhead, and fuel costs make a fairly small amount of the cost of the ticket.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Not really, since labour costs actually make up a ton of the costs behind the ticket.

Pilots aren't cheap; the starting pay scale from what I've heard at Harbour Air is about $25 an hour for duty time, with a guarantee of about 75 hours every 2 weeks. And the more experienced pilot you are, the higher the scale goes.

Factor in other stuff, such as overhead, and fuel costs make a fairly small amount of the cost of the ticket.

Did you read the article that talked about cost savings? They were significant, including reduced maintenance.

[jlousa]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Free market baby!!

I would expect the end result to be cheaper flights, and perhaps some guilty reduction for a zero emissions flight.

Lol outside an initial release where prices might be cheaper then their gas counterparts to get the public over their fears of flying electric, do you really believe they will lower their ticket prices? If anything I can see them charging a premium for the "Guiltfree save the planet" perk.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Did you read the article that talked about cost savings? They were significant, including reduced maintenance.

I've spoken to people who are far more knowledgeable and they said that for all of the glamour, this conversion really falls short, literally. The converted Beaver so far can only fly 155mph, and fly for about 10-20 minutes due to battery limitations. Not enough range so far to make it to Victoria from Vancouver direct; they will come up at least 10 miles short. Add in reserves, and the ability to be redirected in case of bad weather or to go around, they really fall short.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Lol outside an initial release where prices might be cheaper then their gas counterparts to get the public over their fears of flying electric, do you really believe they will lower their ticket prices? If anything I can see them charging a premium for the "Guiltfree save the planet" perk.

Obviously supply and demand play a role, but if they can further undercut their competition to get more of the market, and hence offer more flights, they will.

All I'm saying is this reduction in operating costs allows them flexibility. They can make more flights that wouldn't be financially viable before.

[Migrant_Coconut]

And manufacturing is going to get more and more efficient over time... though I doubt they'll reach "$100 a ticket" or "50+ berths" efficient, which is what HA likely needs to compete with ferries/cars/buses.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Obviously supply and demand play a role, but if they can further undercut their competition to get more of the market, and hence offer more flights, they will.

All I'm saying is this reduction in operating costs allows them flexibility. They can make more flights that wouldn't be financially viable before.

Harbour Air is banking on battery technology improving to the point where they can get enough range out of the aircraft. Right now, the current state of technology is coming up short.

Also, Harbour Air's competitor list is fairly short; it's Helijet for the cross Strait flights, and Kenmore Air (which they have a partnership) going south. They practically own every other scheduled commuter floatplane service in Vancouver.

I am also noticing Harbour Air is not mentioning the cost of conversion; I imagine it's pretty steep. They will have to try to amortize the cost of the conversion for the life of the aircraft, which may be a wash compared to leaving the aircraft as is.