The real problem with Vancouver’s outrageous house prices

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

These are pretty much the same measures taken in Whistler. Covenants on the property (which is how purpose-built rental is done in New Westminster, for example) restrict the maximum resale price of condos. They also can only be sold to people that work in Whistler and don't already own another property.

And no, they wouldn't be free-market properties. That's the point.

In the City of Vancouver the purpose-built rental agreements work pretty much the same years - for 60 years, or the life of the building. Imposing restrictions on ownership properties is an entirely different idea. It's been looked at before, and it's not easy to achieve, in part because of the expense of monitoring it. There's also a big question about how much less expensive than market they could be - as GenWhy notes, the main costs are land and construction. The soft costs - architects, borrowing costs, lawyers, surveyors etc. wouldn't be any cheaper either, and quite reasonably a developer would expect to make a proportion in profit.

Despite Misher's opinion, waiving all the city fees and development costs wouldn't make much of a dent in the price overall, and there would be legitimate questions about why the City are subsidizing a few home owners at the expense of city-wide needs; the DCLs build things like community centres, parks and street improvements, and those still have to be paid for somehow.
As a result, previous Council decisions haven't favoured subsidizing owners, and have supported encouraging rental buildings.

The example above is built 'as of right' in the sense that it fits the zoning. To create some incentive to get low cost ownership the City would either have to allow rezoning to a higher density (as in the case of rental policy), or down-zone existing zones and then permit higher densities for affordable ownership. Landowners would have a fit if that happened, and there might be some serious unexpected consequences and legal challenges. It probably won't go down well in many neighbourhoods either. It seems unlikely that Councillors would approve it on any significant scale, unless there was demonstrated widespread support for the idea.

[Hmoob]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

These are pretty much the same measures taken in Whistler. Covenants on the property (which is how purpose-built rental is done in New Westminster, for example) restrict the maximum resale price of condos. They also can only be sold to people that work in Whistler and don't already own another property.

And no, they wouldn't be free-market properties. That's the point.

Interesting. So if I want to move to Whistler I should incorporate a small business in the city to make myself eligible for reduced-price housing. I guess it doesn't matter if it's profitable.

Or I could profit by inviting partners to co-own a Whistler restaurant for a "reasonable" buy-in price and a nominal yearly labor contribution as a means to find affordable housing. There are a lot of work-from-anywhere professionals who would be able to benefit from that arrangement. What's going to happen when the supply of controlled price housing in Whistler is exceeded?

UBC has a similar program on the endowment lands developments, but it's limited to faculty. I guess it works as a company town, particularly where university faculty don't change jobs very often. Still, it produces some perverse incentives with regards to how people make major life decisions. Not to mention the way UBC profits off sale of professor-adjacent units to non-faculty. It's actually a pretty smart financial move on UBCs part. But it grosses me out.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Hmoob

I tell you what, why don't you institute that program, and give me a heads-up when the units are about to go for sale. Then me and my friends can buy all of them. We'll sell them later at full market value consistent with any full-price condos in the area. I might use my profits to buy a nice sailboat. Unless you can think of another group of initial buyers who are more deserving of the massive windfall...

Oh I bet he has a niche market set aside that he would gladly let take advantage of the windfall before any local could. The higher the value of the unit, the more money can be laundered; no matter how crummy the suite is.

[misher]

Even Press Progress, arguably the most bias left leaning media outlet there is, agrees that its not laundering or foreigners behind our housing prices. That shows bravery and I'm proud of them.

BC’s housing crisis is mainly the result of speculation and high levels of debt

https://pressprogress.ca/british-columbi...erals-turned-a-blind-eye-to-dirty-money/

[Hmoob]

Originally Posted by misher

Even Press Progress, arguably the most bias left leaning media outlet there is, agrees that its not laundering or foreigners behind our housing prices. That shows bravery and I'm proud of them.



https://pressprogress.ca/british-columbi...erals-turned-a-blind-eye-to-dirty-money/

Wow, where do I start?

I generally agree that money laundering is limited in its impact on Vancouver housing prices. And I don't believe that foreign speculators play as big of a role as some here suggest. I think maybe we have similar views in that regard.

The article you cited was poorly supported and while it attempted to imply relationships, it didn't show any causation between housing prices and any possible underlying phenomenon. It read more like a pseudoscientific political piece.

In any case, you significantly misrepresented the content of the article and quoted a partial sentence out of context. I'm not sure whether your so blinded by your presumptions that you actually believe your interpretation of what you read, or if you're being intellectually dishonest (or some other explanation)? I guess you successfully changed the subject from your proposed solution to Vancouver's excessive housing costs (that was summarily executed). Good job.

[retro_orange]

New legislation makes B.C. global leader in ending hidden ownership


World-leading legislation introduced by the provincial government will help bring an end to the days when B.C. could be used by shell companies and other legal entities to anonymously hide wealth, evade taxes and launder money.

The land owner transparency act, when passed, will establish a public registry of beneficial owners of property in B.C., meaning true ownership will no longer be hidden. The act will require corporations, trusts and partnerships, which currently own or buy land, to disclose their beneficial owners in the registry. Corporations, trusts and partnerships that fail to disclose could face fines of up to $100,000 or 15% of the assessed property value, whichever is greater.

“For years, the previous government did not act, while people used numbered companies, trusts and partnerships to hide who really owns property in B.C.,” said Carole James, Minister of Finance. “Their decisions led to B.C.’s international reputation as a place to anonymously invest wealth and left the real estate sector open to tax evasion, fraud and money laundering.

“This registry will make information about the true owners of B.C. real estate publicly available and help crack down on illegal activities. It is one of the key steps our government is taking to ensure homes in B.C. are used for people, not speculative investment or money laundering.”

In 2016, Transparency International Canada released a report indicating that nearly one-third of the 100 most valuable residential properties in Greater Vancouver were owned by shell companies. Data leaks, such as the Panama Papers and the Paradise Papers, have provided further examples of how loopholes have left Canada exposed.

British Columbia’s new beneficial ownership registry is Canada’s first publicly searchable registry of its kind. Information, including names of all corporate interest holders, beneficial owners or partners, will be publicly searchable through the registry. Tax authorities, law enforcement agencies and relevant regulators will have access to more detailed information and may use it to crack down on tax evasion, fraud and money laundering.

“Requiring companies, trusts and partnerships to disclose their controlling shareholders, beneficial owners and partners protects the public by letting everyone know who they are dealing with in B.C.’s real estate market,” said Nancy Merrill, president of the Law Society of BC. “This groundbreaking move by the B.C. government will increase the transparency of land ownership in B.C. and make it more difficult to use such arrangements for tax evasion, fraud and money laundering. British Columbians will benefit from a fairer and more transparent real estate market.”

In addition, the B.C. government is introducing amendments to the Business Corporations Act to crack down on tax evasion and money laundering by requiring private companies to hold accurate and up-to-date information about the true owners of their shares, and eliminating bearer shares, which are unregistered shares owned by the certificate holder.

Learn More:
Homes for B.C.: A 30-Point Plan for Housing Affordability:
https://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/2018/homesbc/2018_homes_for_bc.pdf

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2019FIN0037-000545

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Hmoob

Wow, where do I start?

I generally agree that money laundering is limited in its impact on Vancouver housing prices. And I don't believe that foreign speculators play as big of a role as some here suggest. I think maybe we have similar views in that regard.

The article you cited was poorly supported and while it attempted to imply relationships, it didn't show any causation between housing prices and any possible underlying phenomenon. It read more like a pseudoscientific political piece.

In any case, you significantly misrepresented the content of the article and quoted a partial sentence out of context. I'm not sure whether your so blinded by your presumptions that you actually believe your interpretation of what you read, or if you're being intellectually dishonest (or some other explanation)? I guess you successfully changed the subject from your proposed solution to Vancouver's excessive housing costs (that was summarily executed). Good job.

It's hilarious that misher concludes that "its not laundering or foreigners behind our housing prices." before the inquiry has been conducted.

[misher]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

It's hilarious that misher concludes that "its not laundering or foreigners behind our housing prices." before the inquiry has been conducted.

PP, owned by the former leader of the Federal NDP said it. Also we just had that report into money laundering that reinforced it.

“This registry will make information about the true owners of B.C. real estate publicly available and help crack down on illegal activities. It is one of the key steps our government is taking to ensure homes in B.C. are used for people, not speculative investment or money laundering.”

In 2016, Transparency International Canada released a report indicating that nearly one-third of the 100 most valuable residential properties in Greater Vancouver were owned by shell companies. Data leaks, such as the Panama Papers and the Paradise Papers, have provided further examples of how loopholes have left Canada exposed.

[URL="https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-housing-non-individual-ownership-report-february-2019[/URL]

We have no problem with corporate Ownership compared to the rest of Canada. All making this info publicly available will do is hurt people. Its sad that our society has come to this.

[retro_orange]

It's pathetic that misher has subscribed to my posts. He must get email alerts as he is always responding immediately after I post. He must be obsessed and have a crush on me, too bad he's on my ignore list. So exotic with my independent thought process.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

It's hilarious that misher concludes that "its not laundering or foreigners behind our housing prices." before the inquiry has been conducted.

The Party has told him so.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The Party has told him so.

The New Democratic One

[retro_orange]

Majority of speculation tax paid by foreign owners, Canadians living outside B.C., declarations show

Forms submitted so far show 99% of British Columbians are exempt from tax, Ministry of Finance says

The B.C. Ministry of Finance says the vast majority of those paying the speculation and vacancy tax are the people it was intended for — foreign owners, satellite families and Canadians living outside the province — according to the declaration forms submitted so far.

The tax, introduced to target foreign and domestic speculators who own homes in B.C., is part of the government's plan to increase housing affordability in the province.

Any owner of title — including spouses, family members or individuals who hold a piece of estate property — in a major urban centre in B.C. was required to complete a declaration by March 31 to claim an exemption from the tax.

The government says nearly all the declarations have been submitted, and that 99 per cent of British Columbians were exempt from the tax.

It said foreign owners, satellite families and Canadians living outside of B.C. make up 80 per cent of those paying the tax.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...may-17-1.5140547?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar



So much for being "taxed to death" as misher wants everyone to believe.

[whatnext]

LOL, the irony in this story is epic!

Why Vancouver Is Awesome founder thinks moving out of the city is more awesome
What does it say about Vancouver when one of its biggest boosters pulls up stakes and moves out?
Grant Lawrence / Vancouver Courier
DECEMBER 16, 2019 11:49 AM

The issue surrounding affordability in Vancouver is nothing new. No matter what your opinion or your income, the one thing most everyone can agree on is that Vancouver is an expensive place to live.

That fact was driven home again recently, when Bob Kronbauer, founder and editor of popular website Vancouver Is Awesome, which shares office space and owners with the Vancouver Courier, moved out of the city he has passionately repped for more than a decade. Bob, his wife Kate and son Arlo have joined an exodus of young families feeling Vancouver’s financial pinch. They have relocated to a much smaller, more affordable town. Kronbauer now makes the commute into the city four days a week....

https://www.vancourier.com/community/why...t-of-the-city-is-more-awesome-1.24036259

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, the irony in this story is epic!

Why Vancouver Is Awesome founder thinks moving out of the city is more awesome
What does it say about Vancouver when one of its biggest boosters pulls up stakes and moves out?
Grant Lawrence / Vancouver Courier
DECEMBER 16, 2019 11:49 AM

The issue surrounding affordability in Vancouver is nothing new. No matter what your opinion or your income, the one thing most everyone can agree on is that Vancouver is an expensive place to live.

That fact was driven home again recently, when Bob Kronbauer, founder and editor of popular website Vancouver Is Awesome, which shares office space and owners with the Vancouver Courier, moved out of the city he has passionately repped for more than a decade. Bob, his wife Kate and son Arlo have joined an exodus of young families feeling Vancouver’s financial pinch. They have relocated to a much smaller, more affordable town. Kronbauer now makes the commute into the city four days a week....

https://www.vancourier.com/community/why...t-of-the-city-is-more-awesome-1.24036259

This kind of story is playing bigtime in the US right now. JLL has an interesting website that speaks to the millennial shift toward the burbs. Very interesting stats. The story? It's all about the kids.

[misher]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Majority of speculation tax paid by foreign owners, Canadians living outside B.C., declarations show

Forms submitted so far show 99% of British Columbians are exempt from tax, Ministry of Finance says

The B.C. Ministry of Finance says the vast majority of those paying the speculation and vacancy tax are the people it was intended for — foreign owners, satellite families and Canadians living outside the province — according to the declaration forms submitted so far.

The tax, introduced to target foreign and domestic speculators who own homes in B.C., is part of the government's plan to increase housing affordability in the province.

Any owner of title — including spouses, family members or individuals who hold a piece of estate property — in a major urban centre in B.C. was required to complete a declaration by March 31 to claim an exemption from the tax.

The government says nearly all the declarations have been submitted, and that 99 per cent of British Columbians were exempt from the tax.

It said foreign owners, satellite families and Canadians living outside of B.C. make up 80 per cent of those paying the tax.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...may-17-1.5140547?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar



So much for being "taxed to death" as misher wants everyone to believe.

The point of the tax was to push them to be rented out. It was NEVER to make money. It promised to create 1000's of new rentals, instead the vacancy rate hasn't changed much.

I predicted that while the so-called speculation, empty home and new school taxes would cost some homeowners more, housing affordability would remain a serious problem for Vancouver buyers and renters. Sadly, I was right.

While these taxes generated government revenues, and encouraged some single-family homeowners to rent their properties, we did not see 10,000 to 25,000 empty homes return to the rental market as politicians promised.

Ironically, many owners of second homes sold their condos and started renting. The result was the exact opposite of what was intended.

https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/where...like-b-c-politicians-promised-1.24036284

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by s211

This kind of story is playing bigtime in the US right now. JLL has an interesting website that speaks to the millennial shift toward the burbs. Very interesting stats. The story? It's all about the kids.

Of course it is. The younger generation is always "I'll never be like you!" until reality hits them.

That said, I live in a condo with kids. It's happening more.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Of course it is. The younger generation is always "I'll never be like you!" until reality hits them.

That said, I live in a condo with kids. It's happening more.

There is that, but there is also a lot more DINK's now. Makes staying in the City much easier, especially since a 1 bedroom is plenty of space and no worry about daycare accessibility or costs.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

There is that, but there is also a lot more DINK's now. Makes staying in the City much easier, especially since a 1 bedroom is plenty of space and no worry about daycare accessibility or costs.

Definitely. The city wants to encourage families to stay, but they are way behind on some of the key services required, namely daycares and schools.

Housing is an issue, but at least it exists (at a cost).

[zahav]

The Vancouver is Awesome article is so misleading. He moved to Port Moody lol, it's not like he left the province or country! If Vancouver operated as a megacity, it would've been just moved to a different neighbourhood, not city!

[Denscity]

Hey Castlegar's doors are wide open for my "Vancouver is too expensive to live in" friends!