Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by technomad

wow, sub-par post from you too today.. did Alberta up the fluoride dose in the drinking water or something?

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/SNM1C081/Screenshot-from-2019-12-10-12-43-15.png[IMG]

not really interested in going down the rabbit hole on the subject, so I'll sum up my position thusly:

A) A balance of powers between rulers and ruled is a critical element to maintaining a free and open society

B) No one who wants you disarmed has anything good in store for you...

Do you actually think that even a well armed civilian population is remotely capable of overthrowing the police and military? The threat of that is absurd as a check on government power, and most other western countries have gun laws that are stricter than Canada's, without suffering tyranny. As I said, you're using American right wing thinking to shape your own, and it's just as stupid when applied to the Canadian context.

I really hope the fluoride comment was tongue in cheek...

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Latest update hitting the desks of Russian troll bots this morning:



Still makes no sense.

Read the news. Seek out other sources of info besides this echo chamber. And enough with the Russian troll bullshit. You shitting all over every post you disagree with doesn't make you right.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by misher

Last I checked we were increasing indo-canadian and middle eastern immigration, not sino. If anything I feel like sino immigration to Vancouver has dropped off although this isn't based on any stats. China was #3 from 2011-2016.


https://onemileatatime.com/turkish-airlines-vancouver/


http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2016/air-canada-launches-nonstop-flights-from-yvr-to-delhi



https://www.canadianarabinstitute.org/pu...rab-immigration-canada-hits-record-high/

It's interesting just how many immigrants we still get from Europe. France and the UK both still in the top ten for recent immigrants.

This may not be the case in the rest of the country, but at least in Ottawa's tech sector, immigrants from Eastern Europe are pretty common. Many teams I've worked with will have 10-15 people and of them, there will usually be 2-3 from the former USSR. I actually see more Slavic immigrants than Asian immigrants in my line of work.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by technomad

Great news.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Read the news. Seek out other sources of info besides this echo chamber. And enough with the Russian troll bullshit. You shitting all over every post you disagree with doesn't make you right.

I'm surprised you didn't bring up UN Agenda 21.

I do read the news and seek out other sources of information. As was stated, this is about what the Paris Accord says vs. what the BC government is claiming with respect to emissions.

Some secret cabal of Liberals in power seeking to destroy the country is laughable conspiracy theory.

[Jaws]

No one, except for the police, needs handguns. I fully support a handgun ban. Self defence with a handgun isn't a consideration in this country.

I do not support a long gun ban.

[lio45]

A handgun ban is probably too racist to be constitutional in this country.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Jaws

No one, except for the police, needs handguns. I fully support a handgun ban. Self defence with a handgun isn't a consideration in this country.

I do not support a long gun ban.

Private security sometimes do. As well as those who work in the forest or wild. Also it gets ignored but Canada has a big competition shooting industry, it would seem remiss to suddenly ban what could be someone's talent they've been training for decades. Like if we suddenly banned bobsleds. Canada tends to get slaughtered at international shooting competitions but just because we suck isn't a reason to suddenly eliminate our team/players.

https://olympic.ca/sports/shooting/

I'd be open to lowering magazines to 5 bullets and possibly banning large calibers. This seems more sensible. Perhaps requiring each handgun (outside shooting range rentals) to have a fingerprint reader installed so it only fires for its designated user? Or perhaps a GPS tracker?

Honestly I think my biggest qualm with Liberal gun legislation is its not based on any data or research. Its based on what seems scary and American news stories. How can you expect people to accept legislation when its based around no research or common sense?

Anyway Canada doesn't have a problem with legally obtained guns so any legislation is honestly not needed you generally put in legislation because there's a need for it. You'd do more to stop crime by requiring cameras outside bars/nightclubs than you would spending 600 million to buyback guns. If we're going to ban guns because they could be a danger in the future why not go ahead and ban swords and non-kitchen knives too? Or ban those big metal bumpers you can put on cars?

Plus banning pistols won't do much because its pretty easy to get an alternative or build one. Nail guns for instance.



If people want to kill themselves or others they will always find a way. You see a large increase in non-gun suicides in Australia after the ban. (A later decrease is likely due to mental health legislation).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

Private security sometimes do. As well as those who work in the forest or wild. Also it gets ignored but Canada has a big competition shooting industry, it would seem remiss to suddenly ban what could be someone's talent they've been training for decades. Like if we suddenly banned bobsleds. Canada tends to get slaughtered at international shooting competitions but just because we suck isn't a reason to suddenly eliminate our team/players.

King strawman appears!

Exceptions could be made for Olympic Athletes.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

King strawman appears!

Exceptions could be made for Olympic Athletes.

Would you become a gun shooting olympic athlete if you've never fired a gun before? Even if we grandfather them in this means eventually we can never compete in the future.

Also I forgot to add how much benefit would that 600 million give us if we put it elsewhere? Would buying 1500+ homeless people homes do a lot more to save lives than getting rid of some of our scarier looking guns? How much will buying back the guns on Trudeau's list help Canada? Would $600 million help us more somewhere else? $600 million is more than two times the budget for the Vancouver police department.

Remember this is just the cost to get some guns back so its not like they'll be gone.

I don't share the insane belief that we can fight the government with guns. I just accept that their part of our culture and society and see no "need" to get rid of them. Many European nations have extremely low crime rates but have looser gun regulations than us. We have very low gun crime rates ignoring crimes done by illegal guns from the South. I also know that the Canadian wilderness is not some Commie hipster's magic kingdom. Its dangerous and guns are needed for protection. And although an illegal use of them, they are sorely needed for defense of life and property in some of our rural regions.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by misher

Would you become a gun shooting olympic athlete if you've never fired a gun before? Even if we grandfather them in this means eventually we can never compete in the future.

Who gives a shit? This is one of the weakest reasons I've heard, and not based on any truth anyway. Handguns are already very strictly controlled, you'll probably still be able to fire them in the future depending on whatever new laws come in. Why is it that all the stereotypically right wing people are so disproportionately interested in their theoretical right to own guns, a right which they probably will never exercise?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by misher

I don't share the insane belief that we can fight the government with guns. I just accept that their part of our culture and society and see no "need" to get rid of them. Many European nations have extremely low crime rates but have looser gun regulations than us. We have very low gun crime rates ignoring crimes done by illegal guns from the South. I also know that the Canadian wilderness is not some Commie hipster's magic kingdom. Its dangerous and guns are needed for protection. And although an illegal use of them, they are sorely needed for defense of life and property in some of our rural regions.

Sorry, what? Which countries?

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Jaws

No one, except for the police, needs handguns. I fully support a handgun ban. Self defence with a handgun isn't a consideration in this country.

I do not support a long gun ban.

I am basically the same.

The ONLY reason for owning a handgun is for criminal activity. Handguns are so dangerous because of their raison d'etre…………….concealment. The only people who want to carry a gun and conceal it at the same time are the very people who shouldn't have them in the first place.

Ottawa should ban them all together and give anyone with them a 3 month amnesty to turn them in, no questions asked. Collectors should be able to keep their guns but only if over, for example, 30 years or older and they have no criminal record.

Anyone who is caught doing a criminal act with a handgun should get another 5 years tacked onto their sentence and it should not be subject to parole time. So, for example, if someone is given a 5 year sentence and is up for parole in 3 but gets another 5 years added on due to involving a handgun, they would not be up for parole for 8 years.

[misher]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Who gives a shit? This is one of the weakest reasons I've heard, and not based on any truth anyway. Handguns are already very strictly controlled, you'll probably still be able to fire them in the future depending on whatever new laws come in. Why is it that all the stereotypically right wing people are so disproportionately interested in their theoretical right to own guns, a right which they probably will never exercise?

What makes you think its just the right that wants the ability to own guns? One of the most famous Canadian killers whose case is being used to justify this ban was a left wing radical.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by misher

What makes you think its just the right that wants the ability to own guns? One of the most famous Canadian killers whose case is being used to justify this ban was a left wing radical.

I'm saying it's generally the low intelligence, redneck style right wingers who are typically far more interested in their theoretical right to own guns. These are the type of people that idolize the USA, and hence they take on the politics of similar people in the states and transplant them here.

[misher]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I'm saying it's generally the low intelligence, redneck style right wingers who are typically far more interested in their theoretical right to own guns. These are the type of people that idolize the USA, and hence they take on the politics of similar people in the states and transplant them here.

And yet there are a lot of low intelligence hippie style left wingers who have never owned or held a gun but feel like they are experts. Notice that most of you didn't wonder why Trudeau is banning "assault" rifles because you thought assault rifles were legal. They idolize Scandinavian nations without realizing that Sweden has a very high gun ownership rate. There are also several left wingers who own guns because they are a part of life or their work. Many people who grew up in the country were raised around guns. Note that Canada's gun ownership rate is close to Sweden, Finland, and Switzerland's. 16% of Canadian households have a gun. Seriously what is the goal of legislation? To make a minority of people who have no idea about an issue happy or to provide real improvement to our nation? Looking at the below it looks like gun ownership has nothing to do with crime rates. Honestly it feels like moronic Canadians are using the American portrayal of gun owners to characterize Canadian gun owners despite all stats showing the opposite.



And a nice quote from wikipedia:

Several studies examining the effect of bill C-17 (mostly using data from Quebec) found that it was associated with a decline in firearm suicides, but that the rate of overall suicides did not change, largely because of a rise in suicides due to hanging suggesting a substitution of suicide methods.[50]

[headhorse]

people should look at Bolivia to see what happens when the population isn't well armed and a dictator takes over. the police and armed forces have committed several massacres since the overthrow of the legally elected government.

don't think for a second that the police and army wouldn't shoot at Canadian workers if any protests got big enough to threaten corporate power

[misher]

Originally Posted by headhorse

people should look at Bolivia to see what happens when the population isn't well armed and a dictator takes over. the police and armed forces have committed several massacres since the overthrow of the legally elected government.

don't think for a second that the police and army wouldn't shoot at Canadian workers if any protests got big enough to threaten corporate power

...don't lump me in with this guy. I'm against the Liberal bills but I don't see owning a gun as a way to stop the Canadian government. Not going to stop tanks and trained troops with a rifle.

And btw since he pointed out corporate power and the government oppressing workers doesn't that make him left wing?

[technomad]

Originally Posted by misher

...don't lump me in with this guy. I'm against the Liberal bills but I don't see owning a gun as a way to stop the Canadian government. Not going to stop tanks and trained troops with a rifle.

And btw since he pointed out corporate power and the government oppressing workers doesn't that make him left wing?

considering you seem to post here as a full time job, I think there's only one group you're in danger of being lumped in with...

• Video Link

[technomad]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I really hope the fluoride comment was tongue in cheek...

only somewhat...

• Video Link

speaking of water, perhaps of more concern to the average Canadian than projectile lead


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50293527