Downtown Vancouver Updates

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by cov

really time to upzone the mount pleasant industrial area. Turn that land into 8 fsr. That area is already office anyway. The industrial businesses that are left either own their land or are sitting on teardowns for pure speculative purposes. Quaint esthetics at this point is doing more harm than good. I get that a lot of architecture firms are there at the moment, and they like their setup, but with the way rents going up they won't be staying for long.

This is the Downtown thread.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dleung

That's including the slab. That's low even by old class B office building standards

It'll probably have exposed utilities on the ceiling like the Telus Garden office tower.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

I don't get it either.

That being said, constrains for building in Vancouver are greater than just land availability.

There is a reason local developers are bringing small towers to market and its not all to do with view cones.

Do you think this building is designed so short due to Viewcones then?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Vin

Do you think this building is designed so short due to Viewcones then?

Viewcones could be a factor. But its likely to do with costs more than anything else.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by rofina

Viewcones could be a factor. But its likely to do with costs more than anything else.

That is just ridiculous.

Can you think of a single office project being built right now that is not building precisely to the maximum height permitted by the city, whether it be 92 metres or 168 metres? Whatever the permissible height for an office site is, the developers are building to it, down to the very foot:

The permissible height for 410 West Georgia is 92 metres; the developers are building to 92 metres. The permissible height for 601 West Hastings is 109 metres; the developers are building to 109 metres. The permissible height for 320 Granville is 115 metres; the developers are building to 115 metres. The permissible height for 753 Seymour is 123 metres; the developers are building to 123 metres. The permissible height for the Stack was 168 metres; the developer's proposed to build to 168 metres.

And the permissible height for 601 West Pender is 337 feet, 9 inches; the developers are proposing to build to 337 feet, 6 inches:


Source: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/601-west-pender-street-vancouver-office-tower

In every case, the developers are using up every single damn foot of height the city will allow.

The city-mandated height limit is exactly the determining factor for this building's proposed height (and every other current office project's height). There is zero basis (and is preposterous) to think otherwise.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

That is just ridiculous.

Can you think of a single office project being built right now that is not building precisely to the maximum height permitted by the city, whether it be 92 metres or 168 metres? Whatever the permissible height for an office site is, the developers are building to it, down to the very foot:

The permissible height for 410 West Georgia is 92 metres; the developers are building to 92 metres. The permissible height for 601 West Hastings is 109 metres; the developers are building to 109 metres. The permissible height for 320 Granville is 115 metres; the developers are building to 115 metres. The permissible height for 753 Seymour is 123 metres; the developers are building to 123 metres. The permissible height for the Stack was 168 metres; the developer's proposed to build to 168 metres.

And the permissible height for 601 West Pender is 337 feet, 9 inches; the developers are proposing to build to 337 feet, 6 inches:


Source: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/601-west-pender-street-vancouver-office-tower

In every case, the developers are using up every single damn foot of height the city will allow.

The city-mandated height limit is exactly the determining factor for this building's proposed height (and every other current office project's height). There is zero basis (and is preposterous) to think otherwise.

finally! someone else gets it. i honestly cant see why people don't seem to see this. you cant tell me the perfect economic height is the exact max height allowed. that's ridiculous.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

finally! someone else gets it. i honestly cant see why people don't seem to see this. you cant tell me the perfect economic height is the exact max height allowed. that's ridiculous.

It is also remarkable how the exact economic height that developers want to build too varies from site to site exactly in line with the allowable heights of the view cones from site to site.

Even more amazing was how at first the Stack was economical to the coincidental allowable height of 168 metres, then by some cosmic chance as soon as the city reduced the allowable height to 161 metres the economical height of the Stack also fell to 161 metres! Seriously, what are the odds!

[red-paladin]

New office tower planned for corner of Georgia and Richards streets in downtown

There was little doubt that the southwest corner of the intersection of West Georgia Street and Richards Street in downtown Vancouver would eventually be developed into an office tower, given the precedent set by adjacent buildings.

And now, there is a first glimpse of what the potential office tower development concept for the site at 450 West Georgia Street could look like.

...

Artistic renderings posted onto social media show an office tower with a height of approximately 300 feet with about 20 storeys — comparable to the height of the 2015-completed, 22-storey TELUS Garden office tower immediately to west and Westbank’s under-construction, 24-storey 400 West Georgia Street office tower just to the east. Like the other two towers, the buildable height of the site is strictly limited by view cones.



...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/400-west-georgia-street-vancouver1

[WarrenC12]

Wow keep it coming. Any word who might be moving in?

[Prometheus]

Since it's impossible to not get excited by a new major office proposal, that's awesome!

But as the latest stunted child of the city's viewcone policy, now situated among a crowded family of such children, I think this tower is really going to shine a light on the monotonous and castrated future the viewcone policy and its apologists are imposing on our skyline. Not to mention anything about the economic waste of developing a scarce and dwindling resource far less efficiently than good sense would dictate.

As the adverse consequences of current policy become more and more clear, I think a lot of Vancouverites who haven't paid much attention to these issues thus far will start to notice and not like what they see.

[logan5]

You could argue that a skyline is a fairly superficial thing, but you can’t argue that we are quickly running out of sites for office development in the downtown peninsula, and we are wasting these sites. We need to get max FSR out of these sites, and that means building higher.

Vancouver is now one of the least affordable office markets in the country, and just like the residential market, the City is negligent in responding. They hide behind the view cone policies like scared little girls, afraid to make the obvious changes to a policy that at this point is stunting the growth of the city. For Christ’s sakes, quit holding this city back.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Just going to play devil's advocate and point out that too much office space is as bad as too little; we'll be caught up in a few years, but Calgary's currently converting offices to condos.

Last thing we want is a 50+ commercial tower followed by nearly a decade of absolutely nothing.

Originally Posted by logan5

You could argue that a skyline is a fairly superficial thing, but you can’t argue that we are quickly running out of sites for office development in the downtown peninsula, and we are wasting these sites. We need to get max FSR out of these sites, and that means building higher.

Eh, what we're almost out of is the "easy" lots. Still got plenty of lowrises to knock down - hell, we got rid of the Empire Landmark, didn't we?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Last thing we want is a 50+ commercial tower followed by nearly a decade of absolutely nothing.

But some people claim the city's current height policies don't substantially hinder the economically optimum height of downtown office development. So, you should have nothing to fear in their absence, right?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Eh, what we're almost out of is the "easy" lots. Still got plenty of lowrises to knock down - hell, we got rid of the Empire Landmark, didn't we?

What you are saying is everything is fine the way it is, but it's not. Vancouver has one of the hottest office markets in North America, which means the city is in high demand by the tech sector (a good thing), but we are severely stunting office tower development, despite a huge demand. Any other city would be building 60 story office towers, but here we are building inadequate 20 story buildings. Just plain dumb.

[ericmacm]

This makes 13 proposed or under construction major office towers for downtown Vancouver. When you put this into perspective, this really is a significant amount of towers. I'm sure there are probably many other office proposals in the process that we haven't even seen yet.

320 Granville (115m/32fl)
349 W Georgia (67m/2x15fl)
410 W Georgia (92m/23fl)
450 W Georgia (92m/22fl)
555 W Cordova (127m/26fl)
601 W Hastings (109m/25fl)
601 W Pender (103m/29fl)
625 W Hastings (100m/28fl)
720 Beatty (81m/17fl)
753 Seymour (123m/32fl)
1090 W Pender (123m/31fl)
1133 Melville (161m/36fl)
1166 W Pender (118m/31fl)

It is indisputable that there is a huge demand for office space that is being choked by height restrictions. You could easily get the same amount of office space with 7 towers taller than 150m. City restrictions are absolutely responsible for making sure these buildings are short, there is nothing "economic" about these heights.

[lokyin]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/400-west-georgia-street-vancouver1

Wow talk about maximizing buildable floor area on this lot haha... This box does provide a nice contrast to the Stack building next door, but wow that's close to one another, it's like window against window!

View cones are so overdone in this city... exceptions should be made to allow for density that makes sense in locations that make sense. Some of these viewpoints are just arbitrarily done to preserve something that is not of huge benefit to most people... like the one from City Hall?!?!



(Source: Daily Hive)

[WarrenC12]

^^^^ Impressive list. I hope we aren't caught with a glut of space if/when the long expected recession happens.

[officedweller]

Thanks!
I guess we knew that lot would be developed at some point.

Agreed that it'll just add to the canyon effect arond there, sice floorplates are wide and towers quate to fit under the view cones.
I somehow doubt the City will allow that protruding section closer to L'Heritage, just because of the opposing protuding box on Telus Garden.

I see operable windows - like Oxford's Dunsmuir Amazon building. Would be more interesting if the mullions were dark.

This building will kill all the plants on the green wall proposed for the west side of 400 West Georgia.

[Changing City]

Here's the list of office buildings Downtown with the one other project we know is coming added. Of the 7 buildings under construction, a bit over half the 3.5 million square feet of space is confirmed to be pre-leased. No doubt other deals are being negotiated. The other seven towers also add up to about 3 million square feet, and so far no deals gave been announced on any of that space, although there may also be negotiations.

construction
320 Granville (115m/32fl)
349 W Georgia (67m/2x15fl) (The Post)
410 W Georgia (92m/23fl)
601 W Hastings (109m/25fl)
753 Seymour (123m/32fl) (Vancouver Centre 2)
1090 W Pender (123m/31fl) (B6)
1133 Melville (161m/36fl) (The Stack)

approved
1166 W Pender (118m/31fl)

submitted projects
625 W Hastings (100m/28fl)
720 Beatty (81m/17fl)
601 W Pender (103m/29fl)

future (yet to be submitted)
450 W Georgia (92m/22fl)
555 W Cordova (127m/26fl)
Bentall Centre 5th tower (B7)

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I see operable windows...

I noticed that too. That's a disappointment, if it comes true, as such functional but unsightly residential characteristics negate one of the primary sources of aesthetic superiority (and excitement) of office towers over contemporary residential towers.