OC Transpo

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

OC Transpo does not coordinate service between routes. My local route at one time was a two way loop that was designed to depart from Greenboro every 15 minutes. Then they renumbered each looping route and the buses departed 5 minutes apart then a 25 minute gap. Useless and there were complaints. The solution was to merge the routes with more convoluted routing and cut service to every 30 minutes. During peak periods there was a Connexion route that was not at all coordinated with the local route. Now they have a common route number with many different variations but at least the schedule is now coordinated.

So what is happening in Orleans is no surprise. The only way around this is to merge route numbers, maybe a 39 and 39A. Then OC Transpo will coordinate schedules.

The problem is there are too many "Rapid" routes. Back when I first came to Ottawa, there were only 3 main Trainsitway routes:

• 95 Baseline to Blair/Orleans
• 96 Carlingwood to the Airport
• 97 Kanata to Hurdman

If you wanted to go any further than that, you had to take a local bus. Off peak, the three routes would run through downtown at similar times, but it didn't really matter as they were all still reasonably frequent. Over time the rearranged the routes a bit and extended the 95 to Barrhaven, but then one day they decided to reduce the number of local routes by splitting and extending the routes to go deeper into the suburbs. Once that happened, the frequency of each route decreased and it became difficult to co-ordinate the schedules between similar routes. It has also reduced reliability, as they are having to travel along city streets, where they can get stuck in traffic. This has been an issue for a while, but has become even more noticeable since the O-Train has started providing frequent service along the busiest (central) section of the former routes, allowing the frequency of the suburban portions of the routes to be reduced.

In the long run (after Stage 2 in the East and Stage 3 in the west), this will be resolved, but in the mean time we should go back to having one "Rapid" route for each suburb with frequent connections to other communities. IMHO, we should have 4 Rapid routes:

• Blair to Orleans/Trim
• Hurdman to South Keys/Airport/Riverview
• Tunney's to Barrhaven Centre
• Tunney's to Terry Fox

All other communities currently served by rapid routes would then get improved Connexion service during peak periods, new peak contraflow service as appropriate, and frequent local service to the nearest transfer point, timed to connect with the rapid routes.

Yes this would mean an additional transfer for many, but if the transfers are well timed and the service is more frequent, it would be a worthwhile trade-off.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If they close Greenboro P&R, then special event service has no value, whether it is for going to Sens games, going to Lansdowne, Bluesfest or Canada Day ceremonies. I am not waiting up to half an hour for a connecting local bus at 11 p.m or any other time for that matter.

Why is more applicable to Greenboro than it is to Baseline or Blair (other than it being the closest one to you)?

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The situation regarding the Greenboro P&R is not at all the same as the Baseline P&R. It is more like the Terry Fox or Orleans P&R.

How so?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

How so?

Baseline has restricted access, ie it is a pay lot on weekdays for all day users. It is a much smaller lot than the others. Greenboro has 766 parking spaces that are full on weekdays. Event service will not be extended south because rapid transit is rail only. So the connection to Lansdowne will still be Greenboro. We eliminate the P & R to the detriment of everybody living in the area.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Why is more applicable to Greenboro than it is to Baseline or Blair (other than it being the closest one to you)?

Blair and Baseline are both pay lots when needed the most. Greenboro is much larger and is not a pay lot unless you buy a Gold pass to guarantee access. There is already a shortage of parking space at Greenboro. On major event days, there are often hundreds of cars at Greenboro. Local transit service beyond Greenboro is generally poor.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The problem is there are too many "Rapid" routes. Back when I first came to Ottawa, there were only 3 main Trainsitway routes:

• 95 Baseline to Blair/Orleans
• 96 Carlingwood to the Airport
• 97 Kanata to Hurdman

If you wanted to go any further than that, you had to take a local bus. Off peak, the three routes would run through downtown at similar times, but it didn't really matter as they were all still reasonably frequent. Over time the rearranged the routes a bit and extended the 95 to Barrhaven, but then one day they decided to reduce the number of local routes by splitting and extending the routes to go deeper into the suburbs. Once that happened, the frequency of each route decreased and it became difficult to co-ordinate the schedules between similar routes. It has also reduced reliability, as they are having to travel along city streets, where they can get stuck in traffic. This has been an issue for a while, but has become even more noticeable since the O-Train has started providing frequent service along the busiest (central) section of the former routes, allowing the frequency of the suburban portions of the routes to be reduced.

In the long run (after Stage 2 in the East and Stage 3 in the west), this will be resolved, but in the mean time we should go back to having one "Rapid" route for each suburb with frequent connections to other communities. IMHO, we should have 4 Rapid routes:

• Blair to Orleans/Trim
• Hurdman to South Keys/Airport/Riverview
• Tunney's to Barrhaven Centre
• Tunney's to Terry Fox

All other communities currently served by rapid routes would then get improved Connexion service during peak periods, new peak contraflow service as appropriate, and frequent local service to the nearest transfer point, timed to connect with the rapid routes.

Yes this would mean an additional transfer for many, but if the transfers are well timed and the service is more frequent, it would be a worthwhile trade-off.

I remember that off-peak service on Route 95 Blair to Baseline was every 5 minutes during mid-day hours. It was gradually extended to Place d'Orleans and Fallowfield and service improvements were implemented as Orleans and Barrhaven grew. Since they started splitting routes for the LRT detours, service frequency has been cut drastically.

To me, future LRT routes should have a level of service that will be comparable to what is to be delivered in the future.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Baseline has restricted access, ie it is a pay lot on weekdays for all day users. It is a much smaller lot than the others. Greenboro has 766 parking spaces that are full on weekdays. Event service will not be extended south because rapid transit is rail only. So the connection to Lansdowne will still be Greenboro. We eliminate the P & R to the detriment of everybody living in the area.

Baseline is only pay on weekdays before 11:00am to prevent Algonquin students from using it instead of paying for parking at the Collage. It has 261 parking spaces, so yes it is smaller, but there are lots of empty spaces evenings and weekends, when it is free to use.

For special event service (which you were complaining about), Baseline serves the same purpose as Greenboro.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If they close Greenboro P&R, then special event service has no value, whether it is for going to Sens games, going to Lansdowne, Bluesfest or Canada Day ceremonies. I am not waiting up to half an hour for a connecting local bus at 11 p.m or any other time for that matter.

As we are seeing, all the emphasis is on improving peak period service, again capacity planning. It has been off-peak service that was cut the most but nothing is being done about it.

What we are now learning is that these trains are extremely expensive to operate, yet there was always an assumption that we would save a mint on not running buses downtown. Not true. We may actually be spending more on trains than the buses ever cost us. This is the budget pickle that we now face, and why it became necessary to reduce frequency on so many neighbourhood bus routes.

[lrt's friend]

As I said before, the trend is towards delivering worse service in off-peak hours.

[lrt's friend]

On another subject, at noon, I saw a city bus coming into town on Conroy Road with non-Ottawa livery. I know that OC Transpo was searching for surplus buses from other cities. Could this be one of those?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As I said before, the trend is towards delivering worse service in off-peak hours.

I don't disagree. I just feel that Baseline and Greenboro are equally helpful for special event service. How you keep them available for that while discouraging their use during peak periods (when bus service is good) is another story.

I will concede that Blair is another story, as it is tiny, with only 21 spaces and requires a Gold Permit 24/7.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

On another subject, at noon, I saw a city bus coming into town on Conroy Road with non-Ottawa livery. I know that OC Transpo was searching for surplus buses from other cities. Could this be one of those?

Would you be able to describe it in any more detail? It could really be anything since they haven't announced any buses from other agencies being sourced yet.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Would you be able to describe it in any more detail? It could really be anything since they haven't announced any buses from other agencies being sourced yet.

Good Day.

Yep.... look for permanently attached badging, or painted flashing or insignia.
And the paint scheme colours.
Also catch the fleet ID numbering; that can provide clues too.
And the licence plates.

In the past, OC has rented buses from Montreal quickly. I remember seeing them on the 417 in conga lines.

EnJoy!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Would you be able to describe it in any more detail? It could really be anything since they haven't announced any buses from other agencies being sourced yet.

It had some grey wavy design on the side but no clear indication of a bus agency. I drove by going the opposite direction, so I only had seconds as it drove by. It could have come off the 417 via Hunt Club, but I am guessing. It might be of no significance but you don't see city buses like this very often.

On the other hand, a few weeks ago I saw two Ottawa double deckers heading west on Highway 17 near Cobden and heading towards Pembroke. It was strange seeing them that far from Ottawa. Maybe a charter to the base at Petawawa.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It had some grey wavy design on the side but no clear indication of a bus agency. I drove by going the opposite direction, so I only had seconds as it drove by. It could have come off the 417 via Hunt Club, but I am guessing. It might be of no significance but you don't see city buses like this very often.

It wouldn't have happened to look like this, would it have?

On the other hand, a few weeks ago I saw two Ottawa double deckers heading west on Highway 17 near Cobden and heading towards Pembroke. It was strange seeing them that far from Ottawa. Maybe a charter to the base at Petawawa.

There's a maintenance facility somewhere out that way IIRC. Buses regularly get sent out that way for rebuilds/more serious repairs.

I would have imagined we'd hear about leased buses in the transit commission meeting yesterday, so I feel like it isn't a leased bus especially since we're receiving brand new buses now. It could have been another rural operator's bus, or another agency's bus sent to the region for some kind of work (like OC does with their buses up west), or maybe even a demo bus of some kind though I doubt that.

[lrt's friend]

It wouldn't have happened to look like this, would it have?

Yes, that looked like the design, but I did not see the identifiers 'Leduc' or 'CRT' on the bus. Perhaps I just missed it, but I was watching for an identifier and would have thought that I would have picked that up.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It wouldn't have happened to look like this, would it have?


There's a maintenance facility somewhere out that way IIRC. Buses regularly get sent out that way for rebuilds/more serious repairs.

I would have imagined we'd hear about leased buses in the transit commission meeting yesterday, so I feel like it isn't a leased bus especially since we're receiving brand new buses now. It could have been another rural operator's bus, or another agency's bus sent to the region for some kind of work (like OC does with their buses up west), or maybe even a demo bus of some kind though I doubt that.

New Flyer is in Arnprior, and then Eastway is in Pembroke. You'll see all sorts of buses in Arnprior for warranty work and major collision work, from OC and other agencies in Ontario and the Northeast USA. Eastway tends to do the rebuilds - they had a hand in the invero rebuilds, but it may have been collision work on the Double Deckers.

Eastway Group also has a construction contracting division, they were responsible for portions of the LRT civil works too.

[TransitZilla]

Looks like the Good Companions issue has been addressed by adding extra trips on route 16 between Tunney's and Nicholas/Waller to bring it up to 15 minute frequency.

[DarthVader_1961]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ot...nspo-scheduling-2020-work-plan-1.5373535

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Looks like the Good Companions issue has been addressed by adding extra trips on route 16 between Tunney's and Nicholas/Waller to bring it up to 15 minute frequency.

I wish they'd keep the 16 to Slater and Albert rather than jogging to Queen for LRT-connection purposes. It would help restore some of the lost capacity for local transit circulation within the downtown core / Rideau Centre axis that was lost with the conversion.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I wish they'd keep the 16 to Slater and Albert rather than jogging to Queen for LRT-connection purposes. It would help restore some of the lost capacity for local transit circulation within the downtown core / Rideau Centre axis that was lost with the conversion.

I wouldn't have a problem if they had more routes on Albert/Slater (and in fact I think R1 should use Albert/Slater) but I don't seriously think there has been " lost capacity for local transit circulation within the downtown core / Rideau Centre axis".

Queen St is a maximum of 2 blocks away.