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  #941  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 2:56 AM
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I like how good Thunder Bay looks on that map!
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  #942  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 11:00 PM
Gat-Train Gat-Train is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Nope.

As the article points out 50% of vehicles sold in North America count as SUVs, in Europe it is only 33%.
The issue isn't SUV's, but rather investing gross amounts of public resources into automobile infrastructure. If we're serious about stopping climate change, the answer is undoing the pro-car policies of the last 70 years.
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  #943  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 11:10 PM
Gat-Train Gat-Train is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
You know the difference between coal mines and coal plants right? Because your link is about mines.

In actual power news, India has cancelled 14GW worth of new coal plants in favor of solar, where prices continue to drop:

https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-a7751916.html

We know you don't support Greta.
That's pretty cool of India, but what are they planning to those solar panels once they expire in 20 years? I'd much rather see more nuclear power plants. Good thing they plan more of that as well https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...eet-says-DEA-c
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  #944  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2019, 3:55 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
People on the Prairies aren't any dumber or less educated than other Canadians so this map really hits home how humans will disregard facts if they don't mesh with their economic needs/desires. In other words, if your income depends on fossil fuel extraction and fossil fuel extraction is proven to be damaging to the earth a good proportion of people will simply call into question the facts rather than accept that their behaviour has destructive repercussions. They'd rather buy into a lie lock stock and barrel.

I know a girl who's quite environmentally conscious and cares about animals. I showed her information that this detergent contained a chemical that kills thousands of sea birds annually. Initially she was horrified and appalled. She liked the product so much that after a year she began calling into question the facts because she wanted to keep buying said product guilt free. Some people would rather change the facts to match their opinion than have facts change their opinion.
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  #945  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2019, 7:55 PM
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I just watched 2 doc's about Enbridge's Line 5 pipeline under Lake Michigan/Lake Huron and it made me mad. Anybody who thinks pipelines are safe is ignoring the facts.

Video Link

Last edited by TorontoDrew; Nov 24, 2019 at 8:11 PM.
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  #946  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2019, 7:56 PM
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  #947  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 12:08 AM
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The pipeline industry are shockingly unprofessional and callous in how they run their business. Governments have dropped the ball when it comes to ensuring high standards. It's a recipe for disaster especially with the alternative, transport by rail, being even worse.
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  #948  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 1:16 AM
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They provide an enormous amount of liquid fuel every day with virtually no spills. How high are your standards?
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  #949  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
The issue isn't SUV's, but rather investing gross amounts of public resources into automobile infrastructure. If we're serious about stopping climate change, the answer is undoing the pro-car policies of the last 70 years.
While I agree that a disproportionate amount of our resources have gone into auto infrastructure over the last 70 years although that is thankfully beginning to change, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having SUVs and cars. They are essential to our cultural, economic, financial, social and governmental functioning and our economy would collapse without them. It is not coincidence that our standard of living and quality of life has soared since the introduction of the automobile 120 years ago.

The issue is not about nearly everyone having autos but rather how we power them. It is the exhaust from those vehicles that is killing our planet but not the vehicles themselves...………...dirty fuel in, dirty emissions out. Contrary to what some policy wonks who live in the downtowns who can rely on transit think, cars are here to stay and we must work with this reality if we are to avoid falling over the climate cliff. Anyone who thinks that we can stem the flow of the car and grinding traffic by just offering some transit alternatives are delusional, BC is a case in point.
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  #950  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
They provide an enormous amount of liquid fuel every day with virtually no spills. How high are your standards?


That pipeline has been operating for 60 years with 29 spills. That's 1 spill every other year. My standards are much higher then that, it seems that's a perfectly fine number to you though and the execs at Enbridge. "virtually no spills" are you serious?

source: https://www.sierraclub.org



The largest Inland oil spill ever in North America was by Enbridges line 6. So sorry if we don't all trust these pipeline or want them.
Source: http://america.aljazeera.com

Last edited by TorontoDrew; Nov 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM.
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  #951  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 8:10 PM
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Ooof. Just started my specialization in sustainability this semester, and just got this article sent to me by my prof... it'll certainly gonna be a kick in the teeth to the "environmentalists" who don't really know anything about supply chains and resource extraction. Very good, quick read.


Are electric vehicles really so climate friendly?
EVs produce more CO2 than say diesel – it’s just they emit via the power plant not the exhaust pipe
Hann-Werner Sinn | THE GUARDIAN | November 25, 2019

Quote:
Germany’s automobile industry is its most important industrial sector. But it is in crisis, and not only because it is experiencing the effects of a recession brought on by Volkswagen’s cheating on emissions standards, which sent consumers elsewhere. The sector is also facing the existential threat of exceedingly strict European Union emissions requirements, which are only seemingly grounded in environmental policy.

...

But the EU’s formula is nothing but a huge scam. Electric vehicles also emit substantial amounts of CO2, the only difference being that the exhaust is released at a remove – that is, at the power plant. As long as coal- or gas-fired power plants are needed to ensure energy supply during the “dark doldrums” when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining, EVs, like ICE vehicles, run partly on hydrocarbons. And even when they are charged with solar- or wind-generated energy, enormous amounts of fossil fuels are used to produce EV batteries in China and elsewhere, offsetting the supposed emissions reduction. As such, the EU’s intervention is not much better than a cutoff device for an emissions control system.

Earlier this year, the physicist Christoph Buchal and I published a research paper showing that, in the context of Germany’s energy mix, an EV emits a bit more CO2 than a modern diesel car, even though its battery offers drivers barely more than half the range of a tank of diesel. And shortly thereafter, data published by VW confirmed that its e-Rabbit vehicle emits slightly more CO2 than its Rabbit Diesel within the German energy mix. (When based on the overall European energy mix, which includes a huge share of nuclear energy from France, the e-Rabbit fares slightly better than the Rabbit Diesel.)

Adding further evidence, the Austrian thinktank Joanneum Research has just published a large-scale study commissioned by the Austrian automobile association, ÖAMTC, and its German counterpart, ADAC, that also confirms those findings. According to this study, a mid-sized electric passenger car in Germany must drive 219,000 km before it starts outperforming the corresponding diesel car in terms of CO2 emissions. The problem, of course, is that passenger cars in Europe last for only 180,000km, on average. Worse, according to Joanneum, EV batteries don’t last long enough to achieve that distance in the first place. Unfortunately, drivers’ anxiety about the cars’ range prompts them to recharge their batteries too often, at every opportunity, and at a high speed, which is bad for durability.

...

With Germany’s energy mix, the EU’s regulation on fleet fuel consumption will not do anything to protect the climate. It will, however, destroy jobs, sap growth, and increase the public’s distrust in the EU’s increasingly opaque bureaucracy.
Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...imate-friendly
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  #952  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 8:14 PM
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https://boereport.com/2019/11/24/pem...fuel-shortage/

Pembina Pipeline Corporation is Shipping Propane to Ease Quebec’s Fuel Shortage

Here's a little more CO2.
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  #953  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
That's pretty cool of India, but what are they planning to those solar panels once they expire in 20 years? I'd much rather see more nuclear power plants. Good thing they plan more of that as well https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...eet-says-DEA-c
But what do you do with all the nuclear waste from fuel that only lasts 5 years? Just store it somewhere and wait the thousands of years for it to degrade, since we don't actually have a method to deal with it. Hopefully the storage facilities will intact long enough in order to store it 'forever', or until we figure out what can be done with it...

Solar panels don't look so bad in comparison.
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  #954  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 8:30 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Yep, just bury the nuclear waste. No problem doing that whatsoever. It came out the ground after all, and we already pump plenty toxic liquid waste underground as well - solid nuclear waste should present a lower risk.
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  #955  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 8:31 PM
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https://www.enbridge.com/Line5

Just some facts from the web site. The upgrading of the lines would bring in some pretty fine technology.

As for the other conversation regarding Nuclear or what to do with the PV panels once they are done. Same question could be asked for all forms of energy. what is the true impact on our environment. the only way to reduce humans impact on the environment is to reduce the humans.
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  #956  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Airboy View Post
As for the other conversation regarding ... what to do with the PV panels once they are done.
About 90% of the materials (largely glass, aluminum, and silicon) in PV and thin-film PV are fairly easy to recycle today as contamination is generally pretty low (easy to wash before deconstructing).

Most processes will burn the plastic (~5%) during separation so you're looking at about 5% by weight heading to landfill. That's today, in 2040 the process will likely be a bit more refined.
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  #957  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 9:10 PM
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Ya the benefits far outweigh the negative impacts of production and dismantlement.
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  #958  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 8:09 PM
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And the CONS do it again.....

source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...blog-1.5373963
Energy minister cites climate change denial blog in defence of scrapping green energy projects


Ontario's Minister of Energy Greg Rickford said he believes in climate change but that it is 'important that you consider all periodicals and sources of literature with differing views.' (Chris Young/Canadian Press)

Ontario Energy Minister Greg Rickford on Tuesday cited a blog that denies human-induced climate change while defending the government's decision to scrap green energy projects in the province.

During question period at Queen's Park, Rickford called Climate Change Dispatch one of his "favourite periodicals."

The website says its mission is to "deconstruct" climate change theories "propagated" by former U.S. vice president Al Gore and "the highly politicized" International Panel on Climate Change.

Rickford quoted from a post on the site, titled "Germany Pulls Plug on Wind Energy As Industry Suffers 'Severe Crisis'," in response to questioning from the Opposition about $230-million in cancelled renewable enery contracts in Ontario.

"Well, I'll be a chicken fried in goose fat, Mr. Speaker. It turns out that there's another jurisdiction that's having the same challenges we are," Rickford said.


The full article of this idiots comments here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...blog-1.5373963
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  #959  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 8:22 PM
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The above is why the Tories are doomed to sit endlessly on the wrong side of the House.

Their completely ideological bias against climate change will only help them in Alberta and Sask which are the only provinces where they don't need any. Besides that, what what really stood out more from the election results than regional differences but gets almost no attention, is the urban & rural divide.

The Tories, outside AB & SK got absolutely pulverized in every urban centre with the marginal exception of Greater Vancouver and Winnipeg. Our urban areas are growing quickly while our small cities and especially rural areas continue to see population decline but somehow the Tory war room still can't add. The support of a strong environmenatl policy is strongest in our cities but the Tories seem bound and determined to only appeal to their shrinking demographic.
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  #960  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 8:47 PM
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BC is throwing its sustainable energy projects in the gutter and is only preparing for a 1% increase in energy needs annually despite the massive amounts electrification of natural gas and cars would require according to the Clean BC plan. Likely just like Alberta BC will have to power its fossil fuel industry with fossil fuels despite BC LNG’s offer to electrify. It’s going to be intersting when the province with a Green Party that has some power massive increases its emissions.

Quote:
Could the delays in getting an IRP done hamper attempts to electrify B.C. natural gas and LNG industries?

David Austin, a lawyer specializing in the electricity market with Stirling LLP, said the answer is a categorical “yes.”

He said BC Hydro is projecting increased annual electricity demand of only 1% over the next two decades – something that appears not to take into account the nascent LNG industry and greater electrification of the economy that is a cornerstone of the CleanBC plan.

“It’s not possible to meet the objectives of the CleanBC plan, and increased fossil fuel production, with a load forecast of 1% over the next 20 years,” Austin said.

When the $10.7 billion Site C dam was approved, it was assumed that B.C. would have a significant power surplus for some years, because the province already generates at least as much power as it needs, and sometimes more.

BC Hydro conducts an exhaustive integrated resource plan every five years and then publishes load forecasts periodically. The last IRP was produced in 2013.

Since then, the CleanBC plan was passed, two LNG projects – LNG Canada and Woodfibre LNG – were sanctioned, as was Site C, and the B.C. government approved a second transmission project intended to electrify more of the natural gas sector in northeastern B.C.

“None of that is fully reflected in the most recent June 2019 load forecast,” Austin said.

The Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions recently estimated that B.C. will need to double its electrical generating and transmission capacity to fully electrify the transportation sector in B.C. However, that is expected to take place over 35 years.

The electrification of the LNG and natural gas industries would need to occur much sooner to ensure that an electricity supply is available before new plants and other infrastructure are built. Companies are unlikely to electrify their facilities without assurances that that power supply will be available. They would have to use natural gas to power most of their newer facilities.

Despite assertions it has a power surplus, B.C. was a net importer of electricity in 2018, said Clean Energy BC, something BC Hydro attributes to a colder-than-normal winter.
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