Halifax Transit

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A ferry from Bedford would be a very inefficient investment. A few runs to DT in the morning and a few at the end of the work day back to Bedford would be busy, the rest of the time, not so much. Since there would be only a couple of vessels the number of people able to use it would be necessarily limited. And of course it would be a very unpleasant ride on stormy or windy days.

Should definitly start with some AM and PM runs. I agree that the Bedford run would be pretty much under used during non peak hours.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It might make a bit more sense to expand the current ferry service to include a terminal in Shannon park where there was a large park & ride garage that people could drive to via the cirque allowing them to avoid bridge congestion. Maybe some express buses could serve it was well .

I feel like this is a great option as well. You could certainly grab quite a number of folks who'd drive that far and then boat in. The potential Stadium and housing that's been proposed for that area should also drive ridership.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

Should definitly start with some AM and PM runs. I agree that the Bedford run would be pretty much under used during non peak hours.

So, a commuter train, but on the water? Sounds like a good thing.

[Keith P.]

I just had a bit of an idea based on a post over in the Historic Halifax discussion in the Halifax Urban Design and Heritage forum. The post involves this tram map from the end of the old tramcar service in 1949:



It strikes me that one of the bigger negatives about the existing Transit service is the parade of buses stuck on Barrington St, SGR, and other congested arteries at rush hour.

What if there was an electric trolley system that ran a loop in the core, starting at Windsor/Quinpool (bear with me, I'll explain), south on Robie, west on Coburg, south on Oxford, up South, south on Robie to Inglis, north on S. Park to SGR, east on SGR to Barrington, north on Barrington to Cogswell, west on Cogswell, north on Gottingen, west on Cunard, and south back to Windsor/Quinpool? The electric system would be very frequent, and free. There would be transit priority signals where necessary like at the Windsor/Quinpool intersection to speed things along.

As part of this there would be no diesel buses traveling on this route at all. The trolley would connect you to the new terminal supposedly being built at Cogswell for routes heading northbound and across the bridges, and to a new terminal on the unused land at Windsor and Quinpool for routes traveling west and off the peninsula in that direction. A trolley facility could also be there as a home for that equipment.

I've tweaked the tram route to take into account the need for the trolley line to collect passengers from the main sources: Dalhousie, SMU, the hospitals, SGR, and downtown offices. It would deposit them at either terminal and allow them to get to their ultimate destinations that way. It would make SGR and Barrington more pleasant by eliminating the diesel buses and release the diesels from the rush hour congestion that exists there.

Passengers would need to switch modes at either terminal but both could be constructed as proper indoor facilities to eliminate much of the unpleasantness that currently exists at places like the Scotia Square "terminal" (which is really just a sidewalk).

I haven't given this deep thought so perhaps the trolley routing needs to be tweaked, but the concept of a proper Midtown terminal on the former St. Pat's site really appeals to me.

Thoughts?

[Summerville]

I snapped a picture of old tram lines on Gottingen from street level,...if you can let me know how I can post the photo, it would give you a sense of foot print required for a trolley. It would likely take up most of the street. That is unless the trolley only went one direction.

Although I like the idea, it is easy to see why they decided to replace the tram lines with buses, cars and spaces to park cars.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Summerville

I snapped a picture of old tram lines on Gottingen from street level,...if you can let me know how I can post the photo, it would give you a sense of foot print required for a trolley. It would likely take up most of the street. That is unless the trolley only went one direction.

Although I like the idea, it is easy to see why they decided to replace the tram lines with buses, cars and spaces to park cars.

I use the word "trolley" to signify what is essentially an electric bus. No tracks required as they use rubber tires and can maneuver side to side to some extent. They are preferable to diesels where practical to use as I think would be the case here, as they are much quieter and electric power is cleaner. If battery or hydrogen fuel-cell buses become practical those could replace the trolleys.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Thoughts?

That's a really good idea! Routing seems pretty reasonable. And yeah, it does seem like the St. Pat's site would make a great mid-city depot. Especially with all the redevelopment that's going to happen on Quinpool, the "gravity" of the city is going to shift that way a little bit.

The only thing I can think is that it would be good to add a second loop into the Young/Robie area to connect the area that will, very soon, be a huge population centre.

[atbw]

Southbound Transit-only lane on Barrington is complete from Devonshire to North Street. Markings are in place, sidewalk is complete, all that remains is the path on the harbour side.

[Dmajackson]

^This photo is from last week. Lost power just before I could upload it to my computer. Photo taken by me.

[Querce]

Overall boardings increased 9.3% last quarter over last year's numbers, revenue increased 6.3%

https://www.halifax.ca/city-hall/standin...4-2019-transportation-standing-committee

Also an interesting report in there about the Review of the MFTP Corridor routes

[MolteN]

I feel we need to draw a lot of inspiration from what Waterloo is currently doing with their light rail rapid transit. An at grade or elevated in some sections with it's own dedicated ROW tracks. Referencing the plans from Halifax light rail alliance, I see a lot of potential of building planned high usage corridors and using bus rapid transit with slip lanes and transit signals to service the suburbs surrounding these stations. Waterloo is not that much larger than us, and we're growing at a roughly equal pace for now. But their proximity to Toronto will change that of course..

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

You'll be happy to know there is a pilot project plan to implement southbound transit lanes on Barrington Street between Glebe Street (the very first street on the right inbound) and North Street. There is also a plan to install a queue jump northbound at North Street and remove the stop at the foot of the MacDonald Bridge on-ramp which will allow buses to avoid the long queue by using the left lane.

The transit lane on Barrington inbound from Glebe to Devonshire is now under construction. Add in the previous phase and this means there will be transit priority inbound from Glebe to North minus a small gap due to the awkward layout of the Niobe Gate / Devonshire intersections.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

The transit lane on Barrington inbound from Glebe to Devonshire is now under construction. Add in the previous phase and this means there will be transit priority inbound from Glebe to North minus a small gap due to the awkward layout of the Niobe Gate / Devonshire intersections.

This completely surprised me driving home last night. I had no idea this was even in consideration, but wondered why nothing had been done to make more of the ultra-wide lanes through there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Drove along there twice on the weekend.

The first time I was surprised by it and wasn't certain of which lane I should be driving in (no signage or bus "diamonds" painted in the lane), so I stayed in the left lane thinking the right lane must be a bicycle lane or something. It felt strange as the old yellow line was poorly painted over and still visible, but at least I could clearly see the new yellow line - was hoping that people coming from the other direction would figure it out (they did).

The second time, one of the cars ahead of me took the 'right lane' the entire distance. Luckily there was a gap for him/her to fit into when the lane ran out at the end and the left lane moves over to the right.

Going in the other (northerly) direction, the "ladder" where the previous 2 lanes merged into the old left lane (that is now the lane coming from the other direction) is poorly painted over but still visible, especially in poor lighting conditions. It's a little confusing the first time, plus the road dips a little where the off ramp to the trucking area drops (this wasn't part of the lane previously and the grade was made to match up to the ramp). I can see this as being potentially problematic in winter conditions.

I have to give the city/contractors an "F" for poor planning of this transition. To leave a major route with such ambiguities is not good judgement IMHO. Actually, it's unacceptable.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Drove along there twice on the weekend.

The first time I was surprised by it and wasn't certain of which lane I should be driving in (no signage or bus "diamonds" painted in the lane), so I stayed in the left lane thinking the right lane must be a bicycle lane or something. It felt strange as the old yellow line was poorly painted over and still visible, but at least I could clearly see the new yellow line - was hoping that people coming from the other direction would figure it out (they did).

The second time, one of the cars ahead of me took the 'right lane' the entire distance. Luckily there was a gap for him/her to fit into when the lane ran out at the end and the left lane moves over to the right.

Going in the other (northerly) direction, the "ladder" where the previous 2 lanes merged into the old left lane (that is now the lane coming from the other direction) is poorly painted over but still visible, especially in poor lighting conditions. It's a little confusing the first time, plus the road dips a little where the off ramp to the trucking area drops (this wasn't part of the lane previously and the grade was made to match up to the ramp). I can see this as being potentially problematic in winter conditions.

I have to give the city/contractors an "F" for poor planning of this transition. To leave a major route with such ambiguities is not good judgement IMHO. Actually, it's unacceptable.

In terms of having a bus lane through there, A.

In terms of execution, I'd agree. I think some red road treatment like along Gottingen should be in order to make the lane clearer and the old paint should be better covered or milled down.

[OldDartmouthMark]

To be clear, the F I gave was only on the way they handled the transition, as in being confusing to motorists, and in worst case creating the potential for an accident.

Once all the appropriate signage and pavement painting is done, it should be fine, though they might want to adjust the grade around that ramp that I mentioned.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by atbw

In terms of having a bus lane through there, A.

In terms of execution, I'd agree. I think some red road treatment like along Gottingen should be in order to make the lane clearer

Not sure I would use that as a model. Driving along there is an exercise in sheer confusion for the motorist with so many different paint colors and markings on the pavement you cannot possibly keep things straight. It is so complicated I suspect few drivers actually pay attention now.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not sure I would use that as a model. Driving along there is an exercise in sheer confusion for the motorist with so many different paint colors and markings on the pavement you cannot possibly keep things straight. It is so complicated I suspect few drivers actually pay attention now.

I think the parking signage leads to much of the confusion - I feel like trying to compromise with off-peak parking hasn't worked well, judging from the number of tow trucks I see any time I'm on Gottingen. If an additional colour on the road causes mass confusion for a motorist, perhaps they should be retested.

Driving along Barrington yesterday, I saw that the old lines were milled down, just not completely in some places.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by j.graham

Halifax council moves ahead with Young and Robie bus lanes

Zane WoodfordStar Halifax
July 16, 2019

HALIFAX—Council is moving ahead with bus lanes for Robie and Young streets that could speed up some of the city’s most popular routes.

At its meeting on Tuesday, Halifax regional council voted unanimously in favour of moving to detailed design on the bus lanes, planned for next year on Young St. between Windsor and Robie streets, and Robie St. between Young St. and Quinpool Rd.

Combined with bus lanes on nearby Bayers Rd., which could be built this year, the new lanes would significantly reduce commutes for riders on Halifax Transit routes 80 and 81, which go to Bedford and Sackville, along with Route 7, which travels Robie and Gottingen streets.

While the bus lanes will benefit transit users, a staff report notes they’re expected to increase traffic congestion for other vehicles.

The first phase of the project, scheduled for construction next year, would put outbound bus lanes along the curb on the full stretch of Robie St. from Quinpool Rd. to Young St. and on Young St. to Windsor St.

The lanes would run in both directions on Robie St. between Young St. and Almon St., and between Cunard St. and Quinpool Rd.

None of the Robie and Young bus lanes require the municipality to widen the streets or buy any land, municipal engineer Mike Connors told council.

The detailed design will cost $250,000, and the construction is expected to cost $1.9 million, based on early estimates.

The second phase would require the municipality to buy land and widen the streets to enable bus lanes in both directions, and the cost is unknown.

“We have a reasonable idea of what property we might need, but we want to do a little bit more design work to test the alignment and see what the changes might be,” Connors told council.

Councillor Waye Mason hoped the detailed design would investigate extending the bus lane on Robie St. to Spring Garden Rd., one of the city’s main transit corridors.

“Ultimately, I think that this is a great start toward the goal of getting transit priority all the way to Spring Garden Rd. and that main corridor there,” Mason said.

Councillor Sam Austin agreed, and argued there may be sections of Robie St. south of Quinpool Rd. that wouldn’t require buying any land.

The bus lanes would be in effect between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. Monday to Friday, meaning there’d be no parking at the 57 on-street spots in the area during the day. Parking and loading restrictions would be lifted on evenings and weekends.

https://twitter.com/zwoodford

https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2019/07/...head-with-young-and-robie-bus-lanes.html

I'm all for bus lanes, but I can't figure out how they are going to do this without street widening. Seems a bit crazy to me.

[IanWatson]

From the staff report:

 Phase 1 (Implementation – 2020):
o Young Street:
- Add a curbside bus lane (westbound only) on Young Street between Kempt Road and Windsor Street;

o Robie Street:
- Add curbside bus lanes to both sides of Robie Street (i) between Young Street
and Almon Street and (ii) between Cunard Street and Quinpool Road;
- Add a curbside bus lane (northbound only) on Robie Street between Almon
Street and Cunard Street.


 Phase 2 (Implementation timeline to be determined):
o Subject to approval of budget and resource plan, initiate efforts to further investigate and acquire, where possible, the property required to expand the ROW to facilitate addition of curbside bus lanes on the following segments:

- Young Street (Windsor Street to Kempt Road): Eastbound bus lane, to complement the westbound bus lane recommended for implementation in Phase 1.
- Robie Street (Almon Street to Cunard Street): Southbound bus lane, to complement the northbound bus lane recommended for implementation in Phase 1.

o Construct the above noted curbside bus lanes as the necessary lands are acquired and become available.

o Optional: Add curbside bus lanes to both sides of Robie Street between Quinpool Road and University Avenue. Though it appears that there is sufficient space within the street ROW to add the bus lanes without property acquisition, repurposing of the centre median and the loss of on-street parking (and/or traffic lanes) would be required. At this time, the incremental benefit of extending transit priority south of Quinpool Road is still under consideration as it is likely there would be considerable impact to other uses in the street ROW.

So it looks like they'll do the parts that don't require ROW acquisition, and work on enlarging the ROW on the remainder parts.

EDIT: As Keith so often correctly points out, the part between Cunard and Almon is the challenge. However, this whole stretch is upzoned through Centre Plan. I suspect the used car lots on the west side of Robie between North and Almon aren't long for this world, and it will be relatively easy to get the ROW on these sites when they redevelop. Much harder is going to be Cunard to North, and the short block with Good Robot and the Islamic Centre. While these are also upzoned, there are tons of individual properties (piecemeal redevelopment, if they redevelop at all) and the lots are much shallower so any loss to increase the ROW makes those sites much harder to redevelop.