Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Im guessing if oil was still $100 a barrel these businesses wouldnt be closing.
Back when there were just as many pipelines as today Alberta was killin' it.

Exactly. Albertans are acting like we are somehow choking off pipelines, when that's just not true. All of the existing oil infrastructure that was there when times were booming is still there...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

Alberta’s economy is more than oil there are a lot of businesses leaving or shutting down and this is hard data not opinion. Despite the cuts on corporate taxes businesses are leaving, likely because tax cuts don’t matter when your not even making a profit.

So it's not Canada's stance on fossil fuels? It's just Alberta's poor management?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by trueviking

For sure. Alberta has the most expensive oil in the world. Global prices are low and its biggest customer has suddenly become flush with cheaper oil and isn't as interested. Of course there is going to be a decline from the hey day. The province is still extremely wealthy. It still has a 20% higher average wage than the next wealthiest province. It still has by far the lowest poverty rates of any province. It still doesn’t even have a sales tax.

So, yeah. It’s not the upside of the curve anymore. The market is contracting to suit. Even so, unemployment is only barely a point over the national average and the economy is projected to grow above 3% this year.

The world is changing. It is time to look at transition, not lament that the past is likely never coming back. Even after the tidewater pipeline that Harper should have built finally opens.

I feel for those hurt. It’s just difficult to hear how hard done by Alberta is. Like nobody else has issues. I would trade provincial economies in a heartbeat.

Why do you want low prices for your high oil? The government cap is likely a great stabilizer of the economy. By limiting what can leave, you can create a stable workforce and stable growth.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

What do you mean “this”? They have no proof of anything they just posted, just pulled numbers out of the air and you’re agreeing with them?

If you have alternate information, you should present it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

Not to mention we’d get Quebec companies off jail time to keep jobs but won’t do shit for Western provinces companies.

Except when they bought that pipeline that one time.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So it's not Canada's stance on fossil fuels? It's just Alberta's poor management?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa....
The blame must go to the federal government. After all, no conservative would ever mismanage anything.....

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by misher

Not to mention we’d get Quebec companies off jail time to keep jobs but won’t do shit for Western provinces companies.

How do you imagine one puts a company in jail? At least you've shifted from the false "no punishment" narrative.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

If you have alternate information, you should present it.

No, he should present the information where he got his numbers from. If he can’t, we should obviously disregard his post.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

No, he should present the information where he got his numbers from. If he can’t, we should obviously disregard his post.

Fuck it. Google:

Average wages in provinces (2017):

Alberta $ 59,384
New Foundland and Labrador $ 53,820
Saskatchewan $ 52,728
Ontario $ 52,260
British Columbia $ 49,244
Manitoba $ 47,632
Quebec $ 47,320
New Brunswick $ 46,644
Nova Scotia $ 45,292
Prince Edward Island $ 42,380

Alberta is not 20% above all other provinces, but it's 13% higher than Ontario and 25% higher than Quebec. That's a lot.

GDP Growth:

"ATB is now projecting GDP growth of 0.7 per cent for 2019, compared with the growth of 2.3 per cent and 4.6 per cent Alberta experienced in 2018 and 2017, respectively"

Seems like Alberta was doing pretty well under the NDP. This year is low but 4.6 is incredible in modern times.

Here's BC and Canada for reference:

"B.C.'s real GDP is projected to grow at a rate of around 2.4 percent in 2019, according to Vancouver-based Central 1 Credit Union – an increase from the 2.2 percent the province saw last year. ... By comparison, Canada as a whole is slated to post a growth rate around 1.7 percent, according to Central 1"

Your move...

[headhorse]

as someone who was born and raised in Drayton Valley (look up all the shitty videos of people on youtube begging for oil and gas jobs, it's the only industry there besides the mill) the problem is 100% that people are completely brainwashed about the industry. they tie their personal economic success and prospects to that of the oil and gas industry. these people are so un empowered and confused that they don't even end up advocating for themselves - they end up advocating for a multi billion dollar industry that doesn't care about them.

there have now been multiple cases in Drayton Valley were some scumbag has seen the desperation on the news and came in to the town with a business idea that multiple people bought in to, including people with the town. the community "leaders", including the millionaires who get interviewed in the Edmonton Journal about how their company is dying and they have to lay off employees, have sold out the working people in these places. I have friends whose parents are friends with these same liars and know the real reason there are lay offs - profits are not as high and everyone took on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to pay for their toys/McManions/vacation properties. (not to mention all the O&G corps are posting record profits through all this "downturn"). there is a huge class of this newly made "millionaires" in Alberta who are going to destroy the economy as they go down.

not to mention, for all it's talk of being "fiscal managers', Albertan's have the most household debt in the country and it's LARGELY due to the propaganda about the economy that has been spread that things were only going to go up. it's sad and no one is blaming the true culprits in this mess.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Fuck it. Google:

Average wages in provinces (2017):

Alberta $ 59,384
New Foundland and Labrador $ 53,820
Saskatchewan $ 52,728
Ontario $ 52,260
British Columbia $ 49,244
Manitoba $ 47,632
Quebec $ 47,320
New Brunswick $ 46,644
Nova Scotia $ 45,292
Prince Edward Island $ 42,380

Alberta is not 20% above all other provinces, but it's 13% higher than Ontario and 25% higher than Quebec. That's a lot.

GDP Growth:

"ATB is now projecting GDP growth of 0.7 per cent for 2019, compared with the growth of 2.3 per cent and 4.6 per cent Alberta experienced in 2018 and 2017, respectively"

Seems like Alberta was doing pretty well under the NDP. This year is low but 4.6 is incredible in modern times.

Here's BC and Canada for reference:

"B.C.'s real GDP is projected to grow at a rate of around 2.4 percent in 2019, according to Vancouver-based Central 1 Credit Union – an increase from the 2.2 percent the province saw last year. ... By comparison, Canada as a whole is slated to post a growth rate around 1.7 percent, according to Central 1"

Your move...

Can't really use average wages by province as a good stat when Alberta tends to have the middle-aged workers who work the most and thus make the most. When you have a lot of retired people your average wage is brought down. Also Alberta's workers tend to work more than 8 hour shifts, 12 on/off 7 days a week is common.

If we compared the average wages made by people 20-40 in each province and divide that by total hours worked that would be more accurate.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Fuck it. Google:

Average wages in provinces (2017):

Alberta $ 59,384
New Foundland and Labrador $ 53,820
Saskatchewan $ 52,728
Ontario $ 52,260
British Columbia $ 49,244
Manitoba $ 47,632
Quebec $ 47,320
New Brunswick $ 46,644
Nova Scotia $ 45,292
Prince Edward Island $ 42,380

Alberta is not 20% above all other provinces, but it's 13% higher than Ontario and 25% higher than Quebec. That's a lot.

GDP Growth:

"ATB is now projecting GDP growth of 0.7 per cent for 2019, compared with the growth of 2.3 per cent and 4.6 per cent Alberta experienced in 2018 and 2017, respectively"

Seems like Alberta was doing pretty well under the NDP. This year is low but 4.6 is incredible in modern times.

Here's BC and Canada for reference:

"B.C.'s real GDP is projected to grow at a rate of around 2.4 percent in 2019, according to Vancouver-based Central 1 Credit Union – an increase from the 2.2 percent the province saw last year. ... By comparison, Canada as a whole is slated to post a growth rate around 1.7 percent, according to Central 1"

Your move...

So, your proved he was wrong and then try to dig me about the NDP? I voted NDP in our last provincial election. Didn’t want to be stuck with the idiot Angela Pitt again but we are.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

Killing it because of expansion, if still that high we would still have the issues of getting it to market. Therefore investment would be dropping and companies closing up shop.

But it's not that high.

And this is with Venezuela and Iran basically locked out of the market.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

But it's not that high.

And this is with Venezuela and Iran basically locked out of the market.

And Mexico's oil in shambles.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

Can't really use average wages by province as a good stat when Alberta tends to have the middle-aged workers who work the most and thus make the most. When you have a lot of retired people your average wage is brought down. Also Alberta's workers tend to work more than 8 hour shifts, 12 on/off 7 days a week is common.

If we compared the average wages made by people 20-40 in each province and divide that by total hours worked that would be more accurate.

Feel free to do so and get back to me.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

So, your proved he was wrong and then try to dig me about the NDP? I voted NDP in our last provincial election. Didn’t want to be stuck with the idiot Angela Pitt again but we are.

I'm not digging you about the NDP. I googled some stats to show Alberta's economy is still leading Canada by a few measures. They should stop whining. It looks like the NDP was helping to dig AB out of their issues, but they are back to doubling down on oil, at their own peril.

Please present some stats if you want to make a case for something.

[headhorse]

they're doubling down on oil because that's whose been bankrolling Alberta's government the past 60 years. there is literally no separation between the O&G industry and the state. it is the state's industry and it succeeds over all else.

[misher]

Originally Posted by headhorse

they're doubling down on oil because that's whose been bankrolling Alberta's government the past 60 years. there is literally no separation between the O&G industry and the state. it is the state's industry and it succeeds over all else.

Kind of describes the Liberal relationship with SNC ^^

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/l...etails-of-snc-lavalins-illegal-donations

Liberals accused of cover-up after report reveals details of SNC-Lavalin's illegal donations
A CBC investigation listed for the first time individuals accused of indirectly funnelling almost $110,000 of SNC's money to the Liberals, and $8,000 to the Tories

OTTAWA — Conservatives accused Liberals of a different sort of SNC-Lavalin cover-up in question period Tuesday after a report revealed the names of employees involved in the Montreal firm’s illegal attempts to influence Canadian politics between 2004 and 2011.

A CBC investigation revealed new details about the scheme and listed for the first time individuals accused of indirectly funnelling almost $110,000 of the company’s money to the Liberal Party, and another $8,000 to the Conservative Party. The parties became aware of the lists during a 2016 investigation by the Commissioner of Canada Elections.

On his way into cabinet on Tuesday morning, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said his party has “moved forward on transparency and openness and that is not what happens anymore.”

During question period, Conservative leader Andrew Scheer accused him of a lack of transparency for sitting on the information for three years. “It took investigative reporting to uncover it,” he said. “Why did the prime minister’s recent election financing changes not take action to expose this cover-up?”

SNC-Lavalin
An investigation by the office found that Quebec engineering firm SNC-Lavalin also broke federal election laws by secretly reimbursing employees who had made donations to federal political parties.

The investigation found that between 2004 and 2009, Liberals received more than $100,000 in those illegal donations and the Conservatives received more than $8,000. In Canada, corporate donations have been banned since 2004.

Like the Axor companies, SNC-Lavalin avoided charges by signing what is known as a "compliance agreement" in 2016 with the commissioner of Canada Elections and promising not to break the law in the future.

Earlier this year, CBC's The Fifth Estate/Enquête obtained a document revealing the names of several former top executives at SNC-Lavalin who were involved in the scheme.

The opposition cried foul and wanted to know if the Prime Minister's Office had intervened in the case to ensure SNC-Lavalin avoided prosecution, prompting Côté to issue a public defence of his office.

"In my time as commissioner, there has never been any attempt by elected officials, political staffers or public servants to influence the course of an investigation or to interfere with our work," Côté said in the statement in May of this year.

Note the open lie when he says there has never been any attempt.

[headhorse]

if my posts make me come off as a liberal supporter I evidently need to step my posting up

[Pinus]

It's interesting how Misher is an Alberta Apologist. I guess he must be aware of some huge potential Chinese investment in the tarsands in the near future. Makes him all goosebumpy on the outside.