Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That's up from the Lougheed side and would terminate at a M-Line station though.

The Hastings Line would be sometime near 2040-2050; sounds to me like enough time would've passed to consider a second gondola.

Alternatively, the line could turn south to Brentwood and River District and SFU riders could transfer to the Millennium. There are options that don't include rail up the mountain, is all I'm saying.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

even less likely to happen now. i still don't see where all this money will come from. California is the population of Canada, and look what happened. sure it would be cool, and i am sure it would change things. but $50 billion doesn't grow on trees.

Yes! at $ 50 billion, that's an expensive project by any standard.
Call me old-fashioned or as you will, but perhaps, starting incrementally, upgrading portions of the existing railway to accomodate HrSR would be a start.
Even if at only 90 m/ph, that's faster than a car or bus, and is the same speed as AMTRAK's Southwest Chief.
A more modest capital investment would suffice for that. Then, seeing if it successful or not, go whole-hog to true HSR, "TGV" or "Shinkansen" style of thing.
I'm sure that even at 90 mph, using more modern, lightweight rolling stock, it would still be an attractive option to the bus, or driving, if the ticket $ costs are
cheaper than the plane.
Then again, maybe not. (most people will reject this option as "not enough", though the other options, at $50 billion, are just too over-the-top)

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is there anything rail that can climb to SFU? I'd argue anything we consider down Hastings should be able to get there.

Skytrain is limited to 6% grade and I think someone said on here that the Canada Line (conventional rail) is limited to 4.5% grade. I really doubt LRT would be any higher than that. This has come up on here before and the grade of Burnaby Mountain is more than 6% - that's why they're planning a gondola instead of rail.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Skytrain is limited to 6% grade and I think someone said on here that the Canada Line (conventional rail) is limited to 4.5% grade. I really doubt LRT would be any higher than that. This has come up on here before and the grade of Burnaby Mountain is more than 6% - that's why they're planning a gondola instead of rail.

Why not a funicular-like rail transit system?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Why not a funicular-like rail transit system?

Because a gondola is probably cheaper and easier to install.

[SpongeG]

with the Seattle-Vancouver high speed rail link how much is Canada expected to contribute?

people in Chilliwack seem kinda pissed about it based on comments I've been reading.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

with the Seattle-Vancouver high speed rail link how much is Canada expected to contribute?

people in Chilliwack seem kinda pissed about it based on comments I've been reading.

I haven't seen any specific numbers - but we're only paying for the portion in BC, so not much of the total budget.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I haven't seen any specific numbers - but we're only paying for the portion in BC, so not much of the total budget.

but a lot more than the Broadway Subway all the way to UBC which we balk at... and that subway benefits way more than the HSR will.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

with the Seattle-Vancouver high speed rail link how much is Canada expected to contribute?

people in Chilliwack seem kinda pissed about it based on comments I've been reading.

Why the people in Chilliwack in particular? And what are they disppointed or angry with, please?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Why the people in Chilliwack in particular? And what are they disppointed or angry with, please?

I'm guessing that they think it should somehow go out to Chilliwack, even though the geography is completely against doing that. Or do they think the HSR is going to make a 50 kilometer loop out just to service them?

[lokyin]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

but a lot more than the Broadway Subway all the way to UBC which we balk at... and that subway benefits way more than the HSR will.

Not necessarily.... depends what you mean by 'benefits'.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by lokyin

Not necessarily.... depends what you mean by 'benefits'.

Future's right on at least that part. $6-7 billion for 70+ million boardings a year is already like pulling teeth; $5-17 billion (even split, or per distance) for 1-2 million boardings a year is going to be a much harder sell.

[lokyin]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think Hastings and Broadway are vastly different.

The difference is that Hastings isn't a huge employment center and has fewer residents.

The 009 travels 10km and has a catchment of 204K residents and employees. The 095 has a 17km length and passes 201K residents and employees. And that counts passing through the core of downtown and SFU for the 095. There are a lot more jobs on the 095 than the 009, but again, the 095 passes through the CBD.

If we count just residents, then the Broadway Corridor has 118,000 riders vs Hastings at 78,000, and Hastings is 7km longer.

There is already a Skytrain option just south of most of Hastings, and another line just south of that. It seems a little over redundant.

And unlike other LRT situations, where losing lanes greatly impacts congestion, I don't think anyone considers Hastings to be the best route to drive through the city as it is. If the curb lanes transformed into 24 hour dedicated LRT tracks, really no vehicle lanes would be lost.

I'm not saying it's ridiculous to put Skytrain down Hastings, but in it's current state, it seems prime for LRT. It could also serve as an LRT trunk line and have branches off it on streets like Main, Commercial, and Renfrew. Those lines could be used to increase distribution capacity around the east side to and from existing Skytrain lines.

Thanks for the numbers! Certainly gives a lot of context to substantiate the discussion.

Based on those numbers, Hastings certainly doesn't compare to Broadway, but I'm curious what the development/density potential is for the Hastings if it had a Skytrain line, compared to the UBC extension. Would we have a better ability to densify the Hastings corridor to create "town centres" at say Hastings & Commercial, Kootenay, Willingdon, Kensington (like how they're hub-ifying with tall towers at Brentwood, Lougheed, Coquitlam? Burnaby seems to be good at doing that (compared to CoV...)

And then if we compare that to the potential of, say, Broadway/Alma and Broadway/Macdonald's potential for higher density residential/employment. I mean, besides the current ridership numbers, perhaps the Skytrain deserves a shot at Hastings as a tool to create more viable density for the region.

And another idea... perhaps a Hastings Skytrain line can go to Kootenay Loop then turn north to tunnel through Burrard to north shore to Phibbs? Seems like an easier crossing there.

Wondering if an eastward Hastings line would actually get more "mayor's council" votes as it benefits more of the mayors / districts.

[lokyin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Future's right on at least that part. $6-7 billion for 70+ million boardings a year is already like pulling teeth; $5-17 billion (even split, or per distance) for 1-2 million boardings a year is going to be a much harder sell.

For sure on ridership per cost, but I mean in terms of value of attracting more businesses and economic growth to the region as a result of that UHSR (which I don't have #s for haha...)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Well, the Broadway extension is sure to bring plenty of business & economic growth to the Corridor; it's local rather than regional, but significant regardless.

[Anorak]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

but a lot more than the Broadway Subway all the way to UBC which we balk at... and that subway benefits way more than the HSR will.

I mean the two aren't mutually exclusive, also high speed rail can be profitable, in contrast to Subways which generally aren't.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

but a lot more than the Broadway Subway all the way to UBC which we balk at... and that subway benefits way more than the HSR will.

HSR could also function as a commuter service between Surrey and Vancouver. A 6 minute service would be a major addition to the regional network, maybe just as valuable as the Broadway Line.

[ssiguy]

Ottawa will NEVER, EVER contribute one dime towards this project before it gives billions to a similar line in the Windsor-Quebec City Corridor. Any HSR funding in Canada is going straight to The Corridor and anyone who thinks that's not the case is, forgive my bluntness, dilusional.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Ottawa will NEVER, EVER contribute one dime towards this project before it gives billions to a similar line in the Windsor-Quebec City Corridor. Any HSR funding in Canada is going straight to The Corridor and anyone who thinks that's not the case is, forgive my bluntness, dilusional.

You are 100% correct, IMO. Why? The Windsor-QC corridor is where the majority of Canadians live, and where the greatest number of federal ridings are, and where the votes are. Voilà.
And speaking of HSR in that corridor, although a true HSR is planned and may be in the works, the current fastest train in Canada is about as fast as some Paris commuter railways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMRS_qi4s0Q

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Ottawa will NEVER, EVER contribute one dime towards this project before it gives billions to a similar line in the Windsor-Quebec City Corridor. Any HSR funding in Canada is going straight to The Corridor and anyone who thinks that's not the case is, forgive my bluntness, dilusional.

Western Alienation is a worry of this government. If they were asked by the US government to pay $1B for the section in Canada, they would. Then it would be a great way to show they care about anything west of the 89th Meridian.