Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it? - Page 19

esquire · #**361** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Using words like that is needlessly provocative and is begging an inflammatory response that will only escalate. I think this is a ploy that a Russian troll would be trained to use.

Around here that kind of language incites eye rolling more than anything else, but I suspect it would be much more warmly received on Facebook... which is scary considering the size of the userbase.

Hecate · #**362** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:23 PM**

Maybe we can just annex the northern half of Alberta and give it to the indigenous peoples that live there and create a new territory like Nunavut. That would shut the separatists up.

WarrenC12 · #**363** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by misher

The west has higher taxes on investment than the East which stifles business (this was in 2017).

Any idea how those are calculated? I have a hard time believing BC is at the top % when we just gave a huge tax break to the biggest single investment project in Canada's history (LNG).

WarrenC12 · #**364** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityTech

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/...kMembers%5B0%5D=1.6&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.

2018 data.

Total federal revenue: $332.546B

Federal revenue from Alberta: $46.728B (14.05% of total)
Federal revenue from Quebec: $60.101B (18.07% of total)

Federal spending in Quebec: $72.957B

(72.957B - 60.101B) X 14.05% = $1.806B.

A lot less than both Quebec's surplus and Alberta's deficit.

This narrative that Alberta is being sucked dry to pay for Quebec is completely untrue.

Remarkable how math works isn't it?

WarrenC12 · #**365** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm beginning to wonder if Corndogger isn't a Russian troll trying to incite discord and division. A forum like SSP would be fertile ground for a "fellow traveler".

Sowing division in the western world (BREXIT, Trump etc) is important work for both Russia and China. It will make their final triumph much easier to achieve.........

Yep they are certainly getting their dollars worth as compared to what the US spends on conventional military hardware. Maybe Corndogger works for corn dogs?

TorontoDrew · #**366** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:37 PM**

We should get off this thread and get back to what we all have in common. Our love of skylines. Speaking of...... The Beautiful Fort Mackay skyline on the pristine Athabasca River in Alberta's wild north country.

Oil Sands, Northern Alberta, Canada by Charles O'Neill, on Flickr

WarrenC12 · #**367** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

“Final triumph”

I’m not the only one that thinks this is a matter of when not if, eh?

Russia is nowhere near a triumph of anything. China looks poised, but it's also a matter of time before people there revolt. Something has to give, the corruption and abuse is ridiculous.

WarrenC12 · #**368** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

And wood stoves (going by the air quality warnings I've seen posted on the Environment Canada site during past winters)...

Pellet stoves can be highly efficient, with minimal air impact as I understand it. Although doing it en masse in a dense area...

OldDartmouthMark · #**369** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm beginning to wonder if Corndogger isn't a Russian troll trying to incite discord and division. A forum like SSP would be fertile ground for a "fellow traveler".

Sowing division in the western world (BREXIT, Trump etc) is important work for both Russia and China. It will make their final triumph much easier to achieve.........

Yup...

OldDartmouthMark · #**370** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Pellet stoves can be highly efficient, with minimal air impact as I understand it. Although doing it en masse in a dense area...

I don't have personal experience with wood stoves in Quebec, I had just noted (with surprise) in the past on those air quality warnings that seemed to be only in Quebec, and if I'm remembering this correctly, wood stoves were singled out in the warnings (combined with some sort of weather conditions).

So... yeah possibly efficient pellet stoves but poor air quality nonetheless.

There's also the possibility that Quebec has different standards for reporting than other provinces do - perhaps a lower trigger point? And... this is just anecdotal info, from me. That and five bucks will buy you a cup of coffee with perhaps enough left over for a donut, eh?

OldDartmouthMark · #**371** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by misher

The problem with Wexit is that the "We" gets ignored and instead people see it as "Abexit". There are things across the West that are going or went bad which puts pressure on the Feds and builds resentment across the West. From BC lumber and minerals to AB oil to SK+MB farming+canola oil to MB's storms and crisis response. Even many in Ontario is upset possibly due to how manufacturing has been steadily decreasing there. Honestly I'm not involved in any of those, I'm just annoyed that Canada's competitiveness seems to get ignored and that the country is being divided while shooting itself in the foot. And its clear to most Canadians that the only industries that seem to matter to the feds are those in Quebec. It definitely feels as if there is a double standard where a company in Quebec gets better treatment.

I can understand your reasoning, not sure I agree that these are fact, but yeah I get where you're coming from.

WarrenC12 · #**372** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 5:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't have personal experience with wood stoves in Quebec, I had just noted (with surprise) in the past on those air quality warnings that seemed to be only in Quebec, and if I'm remembering this correctly, wood stoves were singled out in the warnings (combined with some sort of weather conditions).

So... yeah possibly efficient pellet stoves but poor air quality nonetheless.

There's also the possibility that Quebec has different standards for reporting than other provinces do - perhaps a lower trigger point? And... this is just anecdotal info, from me. That and five bucks will buy you a cup of coffee with perhaps enough left over for a donut, eh?

It's interesting info nonetheless. I think wood stoves (or biomass in general) is underappreciated as a form of renewable energy. Obviously if it's causing localized air pollution that's a big strike against it.

harls · #**373** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 5:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

There's also the possibility that Quebec has different standards for reporting than other provinces do - perhaps a lower trigger point?

Precisely. Sometimes you could have a weather warning for Ottawa but not for Gatineau, depending on the standards used. Even though we're right across the river.

MacLac · #**374** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 5:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Remarkable how math works isn't it?

1 +1 = 2...who cares....you are just spin doctoring random numbers...read the National Post article that came out today, "How Alberta Pays Quebec's Bills." Than try to spin doctor those numbers......

WarrenC12 · #**375** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacLac

1 +1 = 2...who cares....you are just spin doctoring random numbers...read the National Post article that came out today, "How Alberta Pays Quebec's Bills." Than try to spin doctor those numbers......

Nope, it's actual math. You can argue it's not true, but that would be lying.

Maldive · #**376** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 6:13 PM**

Maybe time (again) for a Brexit Canada version.

Quebec leaves for well-documented reasons. Where do they go... more news later.

Alberta leaves for well-documented blame.

B.C. joins the US selling great skiing. They hide residential prices.

Sask stays mum because thinks things are good.

Manitoba is torn because of lack of full membership in west alienation.

Maritime Provinces are welcomed with open arms to the state of Maine.

Ontario is tired of punching boy role and lands 3 mega-corps to mitigate auto woos.

lio45 · #**377** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacLac

1 +1 = 2...who cares....you are just spin doctoring random numbers...

"Random numbers"? lol.

I'll return your argument against you - Alberta is a leech, any numbers you may have seen that suggest otherwise are spin doctored random numbers.

misher · #**378** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 6:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maldive

B.C. joins the US selling great skiing. They hide residential prices.

BC prices fit in well with many US West Coast cities. There high relative to income (because BC incomes are incredibly low) not high relative to say San Francisco.
I suspect one reason we see a lot of immigration is because our real estate prices are cheap compared to many major West coast city alternatives. (FYI Price per square foot for all Greater Vancouver housing is around $700/sqft).

Denscity · #**379** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 6:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Yep. United we stand, divided we fall. There’s no freaking way our adversaries (yes, they exist) aren’t paying attention to the division here in Canada. If not dealt with right, Canada’s game over in a few decades (if not sooner).

Yes let's remember kids that divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book.
Maybe we should have an SSP summit in Banff where we can bring the best of what our own provinces have to offer to get to know each other again.
I'll bring some smoked salmon, Okanagan wine, and some cedar lumber lol.

misher · #**380** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity

Yes let's remember kids that divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book.
Maybe we should have an SSP summit in Banff where we can bring the best of what our own provinces have to offer to get to know each other again.
I'll bring some smoked salmon, Okanagan wine, and some cedar lumber lol.

Which is why I think we should be very careful about hindering our economy and should be reviewing why our global competitiveness ranking has fallen. Also people need to stop seeing it as “Albertan oil” “Manitoba’s crisis” and guilty of this myself “Quebec’s industry”. It’s Canadian Canadian Canadian. Provinces are just arbitrary lines we drew up to split administrative regions. It’s not like you drive from BC to Alberta and towns on one side are different than the other. Most of the interior of BC votes similarly to Alberta.

I suspect it was a mistake to decentralize power from the federal government. I know a lot of people see Norway and Sweden as examples of great governments, well they are very centralized. Provinces in Canada act too much like small countries and that’s got to stop.

We need to seek to unite the nation with massive pushes for infrastructure across Canada and centralization of power. Also our population growth should be directed away from the three “immigrant cities” and instead we need to seek to expand our population outside across the nation through birth and immigration.

It’s a little ridiculous that I can get to Toronto from Vancouver almost 3 times faster by car than train and the gas cost is as expensive as the train ticket. If we want to unify Canada we need to encourage our people to actually visit the rest of Canada. We’ve isolated the east from the west which is insane.