Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[scryer]

So do you guys think that Ottawa is learning a hard lesson here?


The pattern that I see:

Delayed construction > pissed off taxpayers > Government Pressure to get LRT operational > Cuts in Quality Control > Rushed Testing > Launch > Government saving $$ by cutting adjacent bus routes suddenly > Glitches in LRT > Media Emphasizing short-falls = Super Angry Taxpayers and Transit users

I think that this who fiasco should serve as a hard lesson to other Canadian cities that want to implement an LRT system and rushing its testing phases. If the Confed line ran properly, everyone would be praising it.

[DEWLine]

Just think: if we hadn't kept putting off building these lines for a century, the growing pains would've been over before most of us were born.

[lrt's friend]

One of the rationale for the original project (cancelled in 2006) was that we would learn how to operate trains properly before embarking on the more important east-west project. It seems there was some wisdom that we decided to ignore.

I think the lesson that other cities need to learn is that a single rail project should not universally impact the transit system. When it fails, the failure is monumental.

Let's hope we can get past this but it is disappointing how often the failures are taking place. What is a bigger concern is that even at 95% on-time performance, the other 5% is impacting too many people too often. If this is a good as the performance of other rail systems, and prospects of further improvement are limited, then we are in trouble.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Just think: if we hadn't kept putting off building these lines for a century, the growing pains would've been over before most of us were born.

I blame the feds for that, they knew for 100 years Ottawa needed this but kept on putting it off because of politics. The feds should fund 100% for stage 3 since almost all the problems Ottawa has was their fault to begin with.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

One of the rationale for the original project (cancelled in 2006) was that we would learn how to operate trains properly before embarking on the more important east-west project. It seems there was some wisdom that we decided to ignore.

OC Transpo has been operating a railway since 2001. The problems we are having are either specific to the Citadis Spirit and unresolved automation, and errors in bus route planning (which OC Transpo has no excuse for because they've been running buses for close to a century).

[Gat-Train]

All these issues would be far less severe if they had paid a little more money and put crossover tracks at every station. Much easier to route trains around an immobilized one that way.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

All these issues would be far less severe if they had paid a little more money and put crossover tracks at every station. Much easier to route trains around an immobilized one that way.

I though about that as well, but there's a trade off where those switches create additional failure points and aren't worth the cost.

I think an additional switch between uOttawa and Lees would be worthwhile, since that seems to be a single tracking pinch point.

[rocketphish]

So OC Transpo would rather accept the higher odds of one death over the lower odds of a couple of deaths on the tracks?

OC Transpo warns would-be rescuers to stay off tracks

Andrew Duffy, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: November 10, 2019

OC Transpo officials have warned would-be rescuers not to leap onto the LRT tracks in an attempt to assist a commuter who has jumped or fallen.

The warning comes days after an elderly woman was saved by two men — one them a red-vested OC Transpo ambassador — who helped her onto the Rideau Station platform just moments before a train sped into the station.

The dramatic scene unfolded Wednesday before terrified rush-hour commuters, many of whom didn’t know whether the LRT tracks carried electricity or not.

The OC Transpo ambassador, in fact, yelled a warning to the first man who jumped onto the tracks to assist the woman. She had fallen face first between the two rails.

According to one eyewitness, the ambassador started yelling, “Get off the track, they’re electric! Get off the track, don’t touch anything!”

In response to written questions about the incident, Troy Charter, director of transit operations for OC Transpo, confirmed that the tracks are not electrified.

“There is no risk of electrocution on the tracks,” he said. “All of the electricity is delivered through the overhead catenary system.”

The LRT uses an overhead system to power its trains through a device mounted on train cars rather than an electrified third rail common in subway systems. Ottawa’s trains use about 1500 volts.

OC Transpo staff are now conducting a “complete review” of the incident, he said, which appears to have been triggered by the elderly passenger simply losing her balance and stumbling onto the tracks.

“For everyone’s safety,” Charter said, “we ask that all customers please stay behind the yellow line, unless they are boarding or alighting from the train.”

He also said bystanders should not jump onto the tracks, but alert station staff or use emergency telephones (e-tel) found on every platform.

“The e-tel is a direct line to our transit operations control centre,” Charter said. “They can immediately take action to stop the train or can notify the operator to stop the train, if required. Bystanders can always assist if there is an incident, but for their safety, they should never access the track.”

It’s not clear why the train was not halted after the woman fell onto the track Wednesday.

The woman later walked from the scene with some assistance.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/oc-transpo-warns-would-be-rescuers-to-stay-off-tracks

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I though about that as well, but there's a trade off where those switches create additional failure points and aren't worth the cost.

I think an additional switch between uOttawa and Lees would be worthwhile, since that seems to be a single tracking pinch point.

Don't the trains also slow down when crossing switches?

[MalcolmTucker]

^ depends on the design but generally yes.

A big consideration for Ottawa would be operational cost, keeping them heating and snow and ice free in winter.

[Uhuniau]

In response to written questions about the incident, Troy Charter, director of transit operations for OC Transpo, confirmed that the tracks are not electrified.

“There is no risk of electrocution on the tracks,” he said. “All of the electricity is delivered through the overhead catenary system.”

Yup. Unless you're about 16 feet tall, those stern signs in the stations are a lie.

Also, boy it's a lot easier to self-rescue or get rescued if you end up toppling into a low-floor rail pit vs the traditional kind.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Also, boy it's a lot easier to self-rescue or get rescued if you end up toppling into a low-floor rail pit vs the traditional kind.

I was thinking the same thing. Had we not had a low floor system, we may very well have had our first fatality.

[OCCheetos]

Mechanical failure on a train somewhere in the East end, according to an operator it'll be brought back to the shed. R1 service up between Hurdman and Blair after about 10 minutes and they were short turning trains at Tremblay.

My only feedback would be that if they're going to hold trains in stations, they could go into button-operated door mode after the first 30 seconds, though I can see how that might confuse people.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Also, boy it's a lot easier to self-rescue or get rescued if you end up toppling into a low-floor rail pit vs the traditional kind.

Very true. Still unsure how she fell in though. Based on one video (angle from the platform she was on, not the one across the tracks), it seemed like she stumbled into the yellow bendy bollards. I wonder if she leaned on them thinking they were solid and fell through. I thought that might happen.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Very true. Still unsure how she fell in though. Based on one video (angle from the platform she was on, not the one across the tracks), it seemed like she stumbled into the yellow bendy bollards. I wonder if she leaned on them thinking they were solid and fell through. I thought that might happen.

Why are these designed not to be solid?

[CityTech]

The stern warnings about not rescuing people don't seem fair. If the next train wasn't due for 5 minutes and an elderly person fell onto the track, I'd climb down there to bring them back up. How long would it take for help to arrive once the red vests are gone?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why are these designed not to be solid?

I had asked the question on the forum when we found out those would be installed. I got an answer, but can't remember what it was. Something along the lines of preventing people from hurting themselves walking into them, which makes little sense considering the alternative (fall into the track pit).

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why are these designed not to be solid?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=8251427&postcount=7483

Just like with many other decisions, they like to overcomplicate stuff and not foresee many consequences they would cause.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by CityTech

The stern warnings about not rescuing people don't seem fair. If the next train wasn't due for 5 minutes and an elderly person fell onto the track, I'd climb down there to bring them back up. How long would it take for help to arrive once the red vests are gone?

You don't even need to climb anywhere. It's a low floor train. You just step down, like you would do from a bus platform, and help the person in a matter of seconds.

Our geniuses are blindly using conventional high-floor subway policies and solutions completely missing the mark and endangering people.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=8251427&postcount=7483

Just like with many other decisions, they like to overcomplicate stuff and not foresee many consequences they would cause.

Originally Posted by Catenary

Between-car barriers are an ADA requirement, so if they aren't a requirement here, they are at least best practice. Most heavy rail systems use a systems of chains between cars, but flexible barriers are common in light rail systems. The barrier reduces the risk of a person with visual impairment waling between cars and then being run over. At the same time, the flexible nature of the barrier allows people to pass through it should the train stop with a door aligned with the barrier, such as may happen during a power loss.

Information:
http://www.impactrecovery.com/images/uploads/BCB_White_Paper,_M501-A.pdf
https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-...ers/lrt-vehicle-car-barrier-requirements
https://www.customsmobile.com/regulations/expand/title49_chapterA_part38_subpartC_section38.63

The biggest issue with between-car barriers is when both an even and odd number of cars operate on the line. In Ottawa's case, this means that 1 car trains will be forced to stop at one end of the platform or the other, they cannot stop in the middle.

Well that's stupid. What are the chances that a train is immobilized at an exact position to block one door. The chances of someone attempting to lean on them by mistakenly thinking the posts are solid, or walking right through them because they are distracted, and subsequently falling onto the tracks, is significantly higher than the former. And even if a door is blocked by the barrier, we have an addition 6 doors per car, so what does it matter?

Classic case of solving a non-issue and creating a much more serious hazard.