Attractions and events you'd like to see in Vancouver...a wish list

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The CNE runs a pretty healthy 1.5 million in attendance so thats roughly twice the attendance of the PNE. Over the years, they have added infrastructure to keep things fresh and have plenty of room for additional attractions. So has Calgary, and Edmonton. We here have not. All of their attendances have been strong and growing, while ours stagnated.

And disagree regarding differences between the malls. The Core built up leasable space in the sky. The exact same could/should happen here. If anything, its an advantage to have a basement floor, as you already have a solid base to build off of rather than reconfiguring existing stores above ground as happened in Calgary. You have lost of space to be creative with such as the Four Seasons lobby, whatever the new development will be on Howe and Georgia, the gawd awful courtyard across the street, and the skybridge across to Holt Renfrew. Tons of space available to pull of something quite significant.
Here it would be a blank slate to build from. You just need the will. I hope your assessment regarding the current council comes to fruition, but I haven't seen much yet that indicates that they're anything more than stewerds of the status quo but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

And barely twice as many visitors as Edmonton's, despite being 4x larger. For shame, Toronto! (/s)
If you want attendance, just keep Khatsahlano running for ten or more days, or the Celebration of Light for five to six - solid 1-2 million right there. There's already a Telus VirtualHome booth in the PNE; adding magic shows or Apple/Sony/etc (which could easily occupy the CircusWest building and kick out the videogame exhibit, but won't) will hardly compensate for the fact that it's the same farm animals and corn dogs over and over again.

Maybe you know more about construction than I do: just how would you expand Pacific Centre above-ground without demolishing the office towers blocking it? Those definitely can't relocate to the basement.
And as we both know, the gawd-awful courtyard is getting redeveloped; that and the Four Seasons lobby would seem to be the last good spaces to expand into.

Eh, Council's basically got three dedicated NIMBYs and one NIMBY fence-rider; the rest usually vote in favour of development projects. At the very least, it's better than the Vision majority.

[djmk]

The PNE is awesome.

I go just for the concerts. Last summer had blue rodeo, Billie idol and vanilla ice.

[SpongeG]

RE Pacific Centre, I don't know if it would be attractive to retailers but where the Tim Hortons and Starbucks used to be where there is an escalator to Holt Renfrew, I wonder if they could reconfigure those areas into some kind of retail, maybe carve out some space above to offer two level retail spots?

Does Pacific Centre own that area though?

With the Four Seasons moving out they could do a big redevelopment allowing the ground level space and a couple of floors for retail perhaps in that area with whatever is planned to take over the hotel portion.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by djmk

The PNE is awesome.

I go just for the concerts. Last summer had blue rodeo, Billie idol and vanilla ice.

Trust and believe: you are already winning with Vanilla Ice.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by djmk

it's 2019. There will never be a new zoo ever again

and what happened to Mr X?

Apparently still logs on and "visits"

Don't forget the CNE has to compete with Canada's Wonderland

Does anyone have attendance # for Fright Nights/Playland stand alone?

Who knows, maybe in the future with a skytrain down Hastings the PNE will be an attractive space, not to mention all the empty lots available too.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I'm getting about 270k, minus people who visit both it and the Fair. Fright Night got 84k in 2016.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by scryer

Trust and believe: you are already winning with Vanilla Ice.

He came with Rob Base!

I missed out on MC Hammer

the early 90s were a magical time brother. lol

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And barely twice as many visitors as Edmonton's, despite being 4x larger. For shame, Toronto! (/s)
If you want attendance, just keep Khatsahlano running for ten or more days, or the Celebration of Light for five to six - solid 1-2 million right there. There's already a Telus VirtualHome booth in the PNE; adding magic shows or Apple/Sony/etc (which could easily occupy the CircusWest building and kick out the videogame exhibit, but won't) will hardly compensate for the fact that it's the same farm animals and corn dogs over and over again.

Maybe you know more about construction than I do: just how would you expand Pacific Centre above-ground without demolishing the office towers blocking it? Those definitely can't relocate to the basement.
And as we both know, the gawd-awful courtyard is getting redeveloped; that and the Four Seasons lobby would seem to be the last good spaces to expand into.

Eh, Council's basically got three dedicated NIMBYs and one NIMBY fence-rider; the rest usually vote in favour of development projects. At the very least, it's better than the Vision majority.

Its not about population proportions, but rather that a smaller market outdraws us-at anything. Heck, I'd settle for a tie with Calgary at this point. But it's not even close. They're kicking our butts and are almost twice the size in terms of attendance. That should never happen, and didn't up until we collectively as a region lost our minds and decided to try to kill off one of the largest events in the entire province.

Great. But why can't you have multiple events and attractions. Why is one or the other? How bout we do multiple great events in our city? Crazy, out there, idea, I know, but it just might inject some much needed life into the area.

Again, as already mentioned before, you can't just "kick out" attractions that are already there. There are negative financial consequences for doing so. You need to add in addition to what you already have, not take away one and replace it with the other.

In Calgary, they built around the towers and in a particularly impressive feat of engineering, took a slender one level skywalk, expanded its footprint (width wise), then added 2 more floors right on top of it, to create 3 levels of usable rentable space literally out of thin air. The exact same thing could happen here.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Apparently still logs on and "visits"

Don't forget the CNE has to compete with Canada's Wonderland.

Great point.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Its not about population proportions, but rather that a smaller market outdraws us-at anything. Heck, I'd settle for a tie with Calgary at this point. But it's not even close. They're kicking our butts and are almost twice the size in terms of attendance. That should never happen, and didn't up until we collectively as a region lost our minds and decided to try to kill off one of the largest events in the entire province.

Great. But why can't you have multiple events and attractions. Why is one or the other? How bout we do multiple great events in our city? Crazy, out there, idea, I know, but it just might inject some much needed life into the area.

Again, as already mentioned before, you can't just "kick out" attractions that are already there. There are negative financial consequences for doing so. You need to add in addition to what you already have, not take away one and replace it with the other.

In Calgary, they built around the towers and in a particularly impressive feat of engineering, took a slender one level skywalk, expanded its footprint (width wise), then added 2 more floors right on top of it, to create 3 levels of usable rentable space literally out of thin air. The exact same thing could happen here.

Why does the Mall of America outdraw Hudson Yards? I don't begrudge Edmonton their success, I'm just weighing it against how their vibrancy seems to be based more on tourist traps and "gimmicks" than consistent activity.

Game Changers is sponsored by the Science & Tech Museum in Ottawa and draw 5,000 people a day (of which how many would've come anyway, I do not know); hardly a breadwinner for the PNE, and neither is the TransLink display. Half the attractions seem like placeholders because they couldn't find a real one.
I'd argue that most people prefer the street events these days. I'd support a Main/Commercial Car-Free Week (which AFAIK is what Edmonton's Fringe Festival is)... but the rest of the city might not.

That's an impressive move that worked well for Calgary and could work well here, but not for Pacific Centre; whereas Core's footprint has room to go with a "tower-mall-tower" layout, PC's footprint is just "tower-tower" - no space in the middle. So a skywalk would either need to have a very creative zig-zag, or need to cut into somebody's office.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Why does the Mall of America outdraw Hudson Yards? I don't begrudge Edmonton their success, I'm just weighing it against how their vibrancy seems to be based more on tourist traps and "gimmicks" than consistent activity.

Game Changers is sponsored by the Science & Tech Museum in Ottawa and draw 5,000 people a day (of which how many would've come anyway, I do not know); hardly a breadwinner for the PNE, and neither is the TransLink display. Half the attractions seem like placeholders because they couldn't find a real one.
I'd argue that most people prefer the street events these days. I'd support a Main/Commercial Car-Free Week (which AFAIK is what Edmonton's Fringe Festival is)... but the rest of the city might not.

That's an impressive move that worked well for Calgary and could work well here, but not for Pacific Centre; whereas Core's footprint has room to go with a "tower-mall-tower" layout, PC's footprint is just "tower-tower" - no space in the middle. So a skywalk would either need to have a very creative zig-zag, or need to cut into somebody's office.

Cause one is a mall, and one isn't?

I don't begrudge Edmonton either. If anything I want to thank them for providing an example of what we could achieve if we actually applied ourselves here to shed the "no fun" moniker.

And there is room in Pacific Centre. Its exactly the same thing. Toronto's Eaton Centre incorporated office towers right into the mall atrium, so again, no reason that can't happen here too.

The Skywalk going to Holt Renfrew is almost a carbon copy of what was in Calgary, and wouldn't hurt a single office. (Although you could easily remove some office space and convert that to mall too if you wanted to get really fancy, but this is Vancouver so its baby steps, and no sudden movements. You might just have to move around some of the existing retail space (which is exactly what Calgary did anyways). And with the Four Seasons vacating soon, a large chunk of their space could be converted into mall space. Maybe we do our own variation of what Calgary did. Maybe ours is on an angle while theirs isn't, but thats fine. IT doesn't have to be identical. Its just a case of will

[officedweller]

WRT Pacific Centre, there is a narrow straight line section where the office towers themselves do not encroach over the mall itself.
However, the Four Seasons lobby and function space (and maybe the H&M space one level above the upper mall) would span over top of the upper mall. Remember that the top floor of Holt Renfrew (when it was in the main run of the mall) had a direct access door into the upper lobby of the Four Seasons Hotel - so it's not just "roof" above the upper mall.

When / if the Four Seasons is demolished, there may be an opportunity to open up the roof of the upper mall.


https://www.google.ca/maps/place/CF+Paci...b6f46250!8m2!3d49.2831244!4d-123.1184338

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Cause one is a mall, and one isn't?

I don't begrudge Edmonton either. If anything I want to thank them for providing an example of what we could achieve if we actually applied ourselves here to shed the "no fun" moniker.

And there is room in Pacific Centre. Its exactly the same thing. Toronto's Eaton Centre incorporated office towers right into the mall atrium, so again, no reason that can't happen here too.

The Skywalk going to Holt Renfrew is almost a carbon copy of what was in Calgary, and wouldn't hurt a single office. (Although you could easily remove some office space and convert that to mall too if you wanted to get really fancy, but this is Vancouver so its baby steps, and no sudden movements. You might just have to move around some of the existing retail space (which is exactly what Calgary did anyways). And with the Four Seasons vacating soon, a large chunk of their space could be converted into mall space. Maybe we do our own variation of what Calgary did. Maybe ours is on an angle while theirs isn't, but thats fine. IT doesn't have to be identical. Its just a case of will

The mall, not the district. America's busiest shopping centres are in places like Bloomington, Sunrise and West Nyack.... NYC doesn't seem very upset about it.

"No Fun City" nabs 1-1.5 million people a year in just three nights. There's plenty of fun - albeit sometimes hidden - and the PNE ain't it any more. Keeping the Showmart and the Poultry Building wouldn't've changed that.

Eaton also has its towers to the side. Here's Pacific; I'll concede that knocking down the Four Seasons tower might clear up some space to develop, as office is suggesting, but a skyway won't work. Connecting across the street to Nordstrom like Core (as I think you're suggesting) would require heavy negotiation with TransLink (doable) and two sharp turns over West Georgia (not so doable).

[officedweller]

The City would never allow a skywalk over West Georgia St.
- it's an important ceremonial street (how are those parade floats going to pass under?)

Remember that the upper mall is at street level at West Georgia, so you'd need to add another level to the mall to bridge West Georgia and it would have to be a tall ceiling height for the clearances needed for such a major street (if allowed (unlikely)) not to mention the zig zag needed as noted.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yo Mark, looks like Christmas came early for you:

Vancouver seeking partner to build new 10,000-capacity PNE amphitheatre

(link)

In partnership with the Pacific National Exhibition (PNE), the City of Vancouver has launched the bidding process of seeking a partner to potentially help design, build, finance, and operate a major new outdoor concert venue at Hastings Park.

In April of this year, Daily Hive first reported the existence of the plan to demolish and replace the dilapidated PNE Amphitheatre, which was constructed in 1966 as a temporary facility. It has a capacity of 7,000 people, with both grandstand seating and standing capacity accounted for.

The new replacement venue on the same footprint would be a covered outdoor amphitheatre with a total capacity of 9,820 people, with 4,250 in floor seating, 4,500 in bleacher seating, and 1,070 in VIP spaces such as private lounges, suites, and flex space...

... The master plan calls for the eventual construction of a new underground exhibition hall, roughly located in the general area between Pacific Coliseum and the Agrodome. With about 150,000 sq. ft. of indoor floor area, it would replace much of the PNE’s lost event-hosting capabilities...

[trofirhen]

Înteresting article, thank you.

Following a link in the same article, I came to this link:
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-cultural-spaces-artist-housing-strategy

The top picture is the same, but scrolling further down, it talks about building housing for artists, and also a 21,000 sq ft arts and culture hub to be built at 826 Pacific St. near downtown.
Good to see the arts being taken more seriously in Vancouver. Seattle is so far ahead of us, that this, IMHO, seems a major step forward. Other opinions on this would be great.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Why does the Mall of America outdraw Hudson Yards? I don't begrudge Edmonton their success, I'm just weighing it against how their vibrancy seems to be based more on tourist traps and "gimmicks" than consistent activity.

Game Changers is sponsored by the Science & Tech Museum in Ottawa and draw 5,000 people a day (of which how many would've come anyway, I do not know); hardly a breadwinner for the PNE, and neither is the TransLink display. Half the attractions seem like placeholders because they couldn't find a real one.
I'd argue that most people prefer the street events these days. I'd support a Main/Commercial Car-Free Week (which AFAIK is what Edmonton's Fringe Festival is)... but the rest of the city might not.

That's an impressive move that worked well for Calgary and could work well here, but not for Pacific Centre; whereas Core's footprint has room to go with a "tower-mall-tower" layout, PC's footprint is just "tower-tower" - no space in the middle. So a skywalk would either need to have a very creative zig-zag, or need to cut into somebody's office.

If they really want to, they can sacrifice a couple of floors of their office towers for the new mall levels to cut through. Even half of or less of the footprint would suffice. That really depends on what makes them more money, of course. With the spate of new downtown offices coming online, I'm not surprised existing tenants will eventually move out, and that would be a great time for shifting tenants on the lower floors to go higher up, and freeing up space for mall expansion.

I'm glad you guys are talking about how to expand our downtown mall. Better still, build a new one already. I really want to know what Holborn has in mind for the Bay Parkade in the future.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Rather, the conversation is about how there's almost nowhere left to go. We can forget about a second mall until 2030 or later - if ever.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Seems to have slipped the net:

Langara Golf Course's future to be debated by public in 2020

(link)

Once again, there's a debate over the future of Vancouver's golf courses.

But this time, a formal consultation process is involved, over a specific course — and it's being led by the group with actual jurisdiction over the city's courses.

"This is something I don't think we've actually ever had a proper constructive and thoughtful conversation about. And it's also a conversation that's always initiated by people outside of the park point," said Vancouver Park Board commissioner Dave Demers.

On Monday, the park board passed a motion from Demers asking for staff to "evaluate the full spectrum of realized and unrealized benefits of Park Board land currently used for golf."

It also asks that staff use those findings to inform a new golf strategy, "with public consultation to include at least one option that presents alternative park and recreation uses for the Langara Golf Course....."

tl;dr - anything goes, so long as it's sports or nature-related.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Seems to have slipped the net:



tl;dr - anything goes, so long as it's sports or nature-related.

I think that's reasonable. Talking about developing greenspace with residential is a joke when the west side is all still SFH.