Sen̓áḵw (Squamish Nation) | 11 Towers | 171m | 58fl | 4M sqft | U/C

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Of course it's just a high level proposal at this point.

I find it funny the people who complain the most about city red tape and road blocks are somehow still finding a million issues with this development which is free from most of those problems.

I am not one to complain about red tape. Its part of the job and unfortunately also there for a reason. Its a check and balance system that can be improved

[a very long weekend]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I wasn't referring to the city's current parking provision policy, but rather its inadequate and irresponsible policies regarding density and scale of development, especially around vital transportation assets, where a much more dramatic increase in living/working space should be contemplated than current policy allows--policy that is born more out of political expediency and cowardice than responsible long-term planning.

The real experiment is psychological, and the only relevant result will be the discovery that breaking the city's current psychological barriers won't cause the sky to fall. Indeed, many people who felt a knee-jerk resistance to the scale of this project will discover that the end results are not just innocuous but rather aesthetically pleasing and will be glad, in the end, they didn't get their way.

The people who resist these projects throughout the city are mostly driven by puerile emotion. And like children, who are forced by their parents to leave the comfort of the environment they know for a better school/neighbourhood or to eat an unfamiliar but more nutritious food, the fuss is made prior to the change, not after, when they discover the changes were for the better.

When this project is finally built and is eventually not just accepted but embraced as a positive addition to Vancouver's landscape, many will wonder what the fuss (and their own resistance) was about.

Moreover, the sheer scale of this project, which is not adjacent to any major mass transit nodes, will serve to underscore the extreme inadequacy of current city policy regarding density and scale of redevelopment around the city's most vital transportation assets and commercial corridors. I think this project (especially when its completion is met with no more than an impotent wimper) will encourage, if not force, city council to rethink the wisdom of those policies.

Nailed it.

I'd also add that if it comes to pass, it will make a wonderful addition to Vancouver's soulless server farm of a skyline (which only Gillespie seems to have any interest in improving).

[domusile]

It's not like this will be the first condo project on lease land. Developers in UBC are doing just fine selling 99-year lease condos.

Also, for those of you that think this will be difficult to finance...you have a reputable developer and land cost of zero. Also, I doubt it will be built as one phase. This thread is next level!

[rofina]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

I have a question for members here that have more of a structural background. Since there is hardly any parking. Has there been 60 plus story buildings built with only maybe a 20 foot deep parkade.

And im not against the project hope it does get built as it will but Canada on the map for building something this big in a scale that has not been done here. This is the way they build in China where labor is cheap and the use of precast is common.

Yes - its possible, and will be much easier in this instance.

To dig a full parkade would cost a lot and you will undoubtedly hit the water table being so close to the shore.

This will require some deep piles, and a very thick concrete slab for foundation.

Not a big deal.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Completely outside the viewcone, separated by a park. Shouldn't be much noise about this one... save the people dumb enough to try and ask the First Nations to consult them.

That and either streetcars or a SkyTrain. No cars + no pedestrians & bikes + no transit = 50 storey suburb.

I see you are going by the book again. I thought you would challenge this Squamish Nations idea of having such tall buildings, and insisting only to have 6-15 stories, or 20 tops, to be built on this side of Vancouver.

For me, it would be sweet to have the talls going up Burrard to West Broadway, then continue all the way down to Main Street.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Vin

I see you are going by the book again. I thought you would challenge this Squamish Nations idea of having such tall buildings, and insisting only to have 6-15 stories, or 20 tops, to be built on this side of Vancouver.

For me, it would be sweet to have the talls going up Burrard to West Broadway, then continue all the way down to Main Street.

See how on the West you have large towers and in the East a bunch of old rental condo buildings, social housing, and boarded up retail. You must admit its a possible future for Broadway if the city refuses to upzone it significantly and packs it full of social housing, old wooden rental, and below market rental. Then anyone with money moves into the nice neighbourhood on the Squamish lands and you create a ghetto where everyone that can afford to leave does leave.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by misher

See how on the West you have large towers and in the East a bunch of old rental condo buildings, social housing, and boarded up retail. You must admit its a possible future for Broadway if the city refuses to upzone it significantly and packs it full of social housing, old wooden rental, and below market rental. Then anyone with money moves into the nice neighbourhood on the Squamish lands and you create a ghetto where everyone that can afford to leave does leave.

You think ahead, I like that. This is so true. Just look at East Hastings Street: it used to be the high street of Vancouver, until the newer CBD got built and the wealthy moved out. The typical North American capitalism created all this (contrasting this with many parts of the world), and is evident in many North American cities. Canadian cities fare much better, but the rot is all too real in Vancouver as well, and the contrast of the DTES vs West Side is way too stark to comprehend and digest. Sadly, locals just don't see it.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Racism. I don't see any other explanation.

That is so uncalled for.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

You think ahead, I like that. This is so true. Just look at East Hastings Street: it used to be the high street of Vancouver, until the newer CBD got built and the wealthy moved out. The typical North American capitalism created all this (contrasting this with many parts of the world), and is evident in many North American cities. Canadian cities fare much better, but the rot is all too real in Vancouver as well, and the contrast of the DTES vs West Side is way too stark to comprehend and digest. Sadly, locals just don't see it.

The magic of real estate and gentrification.

[Changing City]

Here's a twitter thread, with an explanation of how the number of proposed units was arrived at.

The City is also using the development as an opportunity to advance planning for the Arbutus streetcar.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

I see you are going by the book again. I thought you would challenge this Squamish Nations idea of having such tall buildings, and insisting only to have 6-15 stories, or 20 tops, to be built on this side of Vancouver.

For me, it would be sweet to have the talls going up Burrard to West Broadway, then continue all the way down to Main Street.

I'm surprised you're not insisting the Squamish build 70-80 floors up on every site. Aside from the big one, Senakh is averaging 15-30; that, plus a 40 or three done right is what I've consistently said should be the height on Broadway.

A one-size-fits-all 40+ all around the city is what you see in Shanghai and Hong Kong, and that's only because they've got over 3x the people to put inside half the space. That'll be us around the year 2186.

Originally Posted by Vin

You think ahead, I like that. This is so true. Just look at East Hastings Street: it used to be the high street of Vancouver, until the newer CBD got built and the wealthy moved out. The typical North American capitalism created all this (contrasting this with many parts of the world), and is evident in many North American cities. Canadian cities fare much better, but the rot is all too real in Vancouver as well, and the contrast of the DTES vs West Side is way too stark to comprehend and digest. Sadly, locals just don't see it.

Your history needs a brush-up; Hastings was already an "edgy" neighbourhood ever since the Depression. Then the Expo 86 renovictions, closing of Riverview and lack of replacements put nails in the coffin.

So... don't renovict, and provide access to affordable housing & health facilities, but still keep new money and new people coming in. That's what City Hall's doing now.

Originally Posted by Vin

That is so uncalled for.

When we're got people talking about ghettos and "a casino, gas station, weed store, and tobacco store," it's right on the nose.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'm surprised you're not insisting the Squamish build 70-80 floors up on every site. Aside from the big one, Senakh is averaging 15-30; that, plus a 40 or three done right is what I've consistently said should be the height on Broadway.

A one-size-fits-all 40+ all around the city is what you see in Shanghai and Hong Kong, and that's only because they've got over 3x the people to put inside half the space. That'll be us around the year 2186.



Your history needs a brush-up; Hastings was already an "edgy" neighbourhood ever since the Depression. Then the Expo 86 renovictions, closing of Riverview and lack of replacements put nails in the coffin.

So... don't renovict, and provide access to affordable housing & health facilities, but still keep new money and new people coming in. That's what City Hall's doing now.



When we're got people talking about ghettos and "a casino, gas station, weed store, and tobacco store," it's right on the nose.

I completely agree I'm not against social housing but the new Squamish plans mean we need to bring our plans up a bit, I'm frightened that the city is too focused on "affordable housing" and blocking rennovictions/demovictions. If we maintain all the 1960's era RM-3 residential condos and build 4-6 storey midrise social housing buildings combined with the social housing we already have there we are going to create a neighbourhood that is significantly poorer than the one a few blocks away. This will push anyone who can move out and attract those who rely on low rent or social housing. Things will move downhill and pick up speed and suddenly we have no way to stop it.

In the 1950s, the city centre continued its shift westward after the interurban rail line closed; its main depot was at Carrall and Hastings.[19] Theatres and shops moved towards Granville and Robson streets.[20] As tourist traffic declined, the neighbourhood's hotels became run-down and were gradually converted to Single room occupancy (or SRO) housing, a use which persists to this day.[13] By 1965, the area was known for prostitution and for having a relatively high proportion of poor, single men, many of whom were alcoholic, disabled, or pensioners.[13]

Just as an example this building is likely what we may see a lot of. However, they already have a bike shop outfront and people sleeping on cardboard on the side. The buildings nearby face constant breakins from the residents and their friends.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

See how on the West you have large towers and in the East a bunch of old rental condo buildings, social housing, and boarded up retail. You must admit its a possible future for Broadway if the city refuses to upzone it significantly and packs it full of social housing, old wooden rental, and below market rental. Then anyone with money moves into the nice neighbourhood on the Squamish lands and you create a ghetto where everyone that can afford to leave does leave.

Just like those infamous slums known as West and East Village in NYC? What happens to quiet, clean districts that get new business but don't change is that that they become super unaffordable; with all the new 15-30s MIRHPPs being proposed for all walks of life, that shouldn't happen either.

Originally Posted by Changing City

The City is also using the development as an opportunity to advance planning for the Arbutus streetcar.

Wonder if the first phase could just be Science World to Senakh - quick, politically and financially simple, plenty of anchors.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

I completely agree I'm not against social housing but the new Squamish plans mean we need to bring our plans up a bit, I'm frightened that the city is too focused on "affordable housing" and blocking rennovictions/demovictions. If we maintain all the 1960's era RM-3 residential condos and build 4-6 storey midrise social housing buildings combined with the social housing we already have there we are going to create a neighbourhood that is significantly poorer than the one a few blocks away. This will push anyone who can move out and attract those who rely on low rent or social housing. Things will move downhill and pick up speed and suddenly we have no way to stop it.

Just as an example this building is likely what we may see a lot of. However, they already have a bike shop outfront and people sleeping on cardboard on the side. The buildings nearby face constant breakins from the residents and their friends.

Yeah, that one's just a few blocks from my home, and ambulances are parked there often - that's social housing, which is spread evenly throughout the city. Not concentrated like a project, which is how you definitely get a slum. Not perfect, but better to house people before they start a downward spiral (or at least before they spiral further).

Affordable housing is for people who can only afford $1,000-4,000 a month on rent; surely you don't think every <$100k neighbourhood is a ghetto?

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Just like those infamous slums known as West and East Village in NYC? What happens to quiet, clean districts that get new business but don't change is that that they become super unaffordable; with all the new 15-30s MIRHPPs being proposed for all walks of life, that shouldn't happen either.



Wonder if the first phase could just be Science World to Senakh - quick, politically and financially simple, plenty of anchors.

Who is funding the street car? As it was big news back in 2010 and has since died.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Who is funding the street car? As it was big news back in 2010 and has since died.

Didn't die, just went on the backburner as the City focuses on the Millennium extension. There was more talk of it during the NEFC/SFC/Arbutus Greenway open houses.

[SpongeG]

thought this would fit in here

Western Canada: Massive Indigenous-led development will change downtown Vancouver and upend city demands

WENDY COX AND JAMES KELLER

Good morning. Wendy Cox in Vancouver here.

The historic Burrard Bridge provides the west side of the city with its link into downtown Vancouver, but it’s never been a particularly picturesque gateway: The hulking, industrial Molson Brewery building is on one side and an aging apartment building in the shape of a fidget spinner and surrounded by mature trees is on the other.

The area is about to undergo a decade-long transformation that’s significant in its size, but particularly in the unprecedented way in which it will come together.

The land under the Molson Brewery site is now owned by Concord Pacific and is zoned industrial. The development company has plans for constructing an office building with some so-called “workforce” housing. Any chance the city would allow the developer to build more housing is subject to a review that is currently underway. Any new project would have to undergo the usual horse-trading with the city, with civic officials demanding the developer contribute amenities such as affordable housing, park space or even childcare spaces in exchange for more density.

Not so with the project across the street.

Frances Bula reported exclusively this week the project proposal has doubled in size. It is now expected to include 6,000 units over 11 towers. It would be one of the largest private First Nations investment projects in the country, expected by the Squamish to be in the billions of dollars, and turn the First Nation into a major developer in Vancouver’s lucrative housing market.

The units in the project, which must yet be approved by Squamish Nation members next month, will be mostly rentals. Mayor Kennedy Stewart has made the development of more rental units a key mission for the city, but these won’t necessarily fit into his plan. Unlike other projects which must ensure 20 per cent of new units are affordable, the city cannot force that requirement here because the development is being built on Squamish reserve land. The Squamish say their priority is maximizing profits for their members and while some of the units may be designated affordable, those will be dedicated for rent by Squamish members.

Likewise, the city has no control over the density in the project or the height: The tallest structure is planned at 56 storeys, which is as tall as a new one being built further downtown but is far and away taller than anything in the neighbourhood of this development. In order to lower construction costs for underground parking, the current plan is to have only about 10 per cent of the apartments with parking available, far below the usual minimum. And the city’s preference for the configuration of the buildings also won’t apply.

The mayor acknowledged Tuesday the project is out of his hands, telling reporters: “The only real say we have is on the service agreement.” The area currently is mostly scrub land and sits next to a manicured park on one side and the bridge on the other. It will require a new network of water and sewer infrastructure and it will need policing, fire and garbage services, among other things.

So far, there has been little vocal opposition to the project, though one city councillor said the city’s inability to have any say is concerning.

...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/b...-indigenous-led-development-will-change/

[SpongeG]

Metro Vancouver First Nations 'buying their own land back': Thousands more housing units ready to break ground

Developers are increasingly looking to First Nations land as a way around municipal bureaucracy

RANDY SHORE Updated: November 7, 2019

First Nations are poised to become the next real estate development power-brokers in Metro Vancouver, with billions of dollars worth of real estate on and off reserves at their disposal.

Westbank Corp., Polygon, Aquilini and Darwin Properties all have partnerships with local First Nations to build thousands of units of housing and commercial space in Vancouver, Burnaby and West Vancouver.

“First Nations have first right of refusal when the provincial or federal government disposes of land and they are actively making those deals,” said Indigenous planner Ginger Gosnell-Myers, formerly with the City of Vancouver.

“The nations are going to buy everything, they are buying their own land back and they will develop it so that they have income security,” she said.

MST Development Corp. — a land development firm jointly owned by the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh First Nations — was ranked No. 1 on Vancouver Magazine’s Power 50 list this week. The partnership is “poised to reshape the city, with a mixture of market and social housing, as well as some much-needed community contributions,” according to VanMag.

MST owns 65 hectares worth more than $2 billion, including 21 hectares at Jericho and eight hectares at 33rd Avenue and Heather Street on the west side of Vancouver.

MST recently bought a parcel in West Vancouver and the Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh have a partnership with Aquilini Development and Construction on 16 hectares near Canada Way and Willingdon Avenue in Burnaby.

“People are still scratching their heads and rubbing their eyes wondering what it means,” said Gosnell-Myers, who is about to start a three-year fellowship with Simon Fraser University focusing on decolonization and urban Indigenous planning.

...

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...more-housing-units-ready-to-break-ground

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yeah, that one's just a few blocks from my home, and ambulances are parked there often - that's social housing, which is spread evenly throughout the city. Not concentrated like a project, which is how you definitely get a slum. Not perfect, but better to house people before they start a downward spiral (or at least before they spiral further).

Affordable housing is for people who can only afford $1,000-4,000 a month on rent; surely you don't think every <$100k neighbourhood is a ghetto?

To add to that: "median household income in Vancouver of $65,327 in 2016 would need to rent at $1,633. Households paying over 30 per cent of their total income on housing costs are considered to be ‘housing cost burdened.’ "

CofV is focused on this demographic in their housing plan 'till 2021. Which is singles under $50k and families under $80k. "Poor people".

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yeah, that one's just a few blocks from my home, and ambulances are parked there often - that's social housing, which is spread evenly throughout the city. Not concentrated like a project, which is how you definitely get a slum. Not perfect, but better to house people before they start a downward spiral (or at least before they spiral further).

Affordable housing is for people who can only afford $1,000-4,000 a month on rent; surely you don't think every <$100k neighbourhood is a ghetto?

Yes but the Broadway plan contains a lot of support for many more social housing developments. And various councilors (not just Swanson) as well as city staff have dropped hints that much more will be coming when Broadway is developed. The DTES didn’t startout the way it is either. But we’re forcing every old wooden loweise on most of the residential land along Broadway to stay which means that eventually they’ll fall apart as the current renters refuse to move due to rent control while the owner refuses to perform maintenance and improvements due to shrinking profits and little incentive. Basically a repeat of the Sahota situation across a decent chunk of the city.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Wonder if the first phase could just be Science World to Senakh - quick, politically and financially simple, plenty of anchors.

Better if it could continue up the hill to Arbutus Skytrain station somehow. A great link for the people in the new development.