Attractions and events you'd like to see in Vancouver...a wish list

[Vin]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Actually, no that is not a fact. The Fairs declining numbers started EXACTLY the year it was cut in half. You are 100% wrong if you think otherwise.

No, no. Don't need to go to restaurants. Can accomplish the same cooking at home (and its cheaper). We need to follow the logic of "I can get it somewhere else," then we have to do it all the way. No cutting corners and choosing one or the other.

I know malls are suffering, but again, under the logic of "you can see/get it somewhere else" they must all close down immediately. Again, can't be kinda pregnant.

Same with Fairs, you can pretty much see/do anything you can there someplace else. So why bother? Why Because people still go to them. And as long as there's entities wanting to come display/sell their goods and services there we should be able to accommodate them. No amount of Vancouver style "can't do" logic changes that

City centre malls are not suffering, period. All our city and town centres here grow strong around a mall. Just look around.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You're asking why an event in Toronto gets double the attendance of Vancouver? Sounds like we're punching above our weight class in that comparison.

I was simply pointing out that our fair used to be bigger than the one in Toronto and now its twice as large as ours.

Actually my question was why are we being outdrawn by a similar event in that noted megapolis Edmonton Alberta?

So actually punching well below our weight class

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Vin

City centre malls are not suffering, period. All our city and town centres here grow strong around a mall. Just look around.

It was more of a comment of the industry as a whole, not our particular malls. However, if you look at our malls, the suburban ones are expanding while our one in the downtown core is not (despite having really strong sales per square foot numbers). But again, you need an accommodating city for that.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Actually my question was why are we being outdrawn by a similar event in that noted megapolis Edmonton Alberta?

So actually punching well below our weight class

I suspect because our PNE has a ton of different competition for peoples' recreational time and money. Edmonton likely does not have as many of those other options.

It's not like people in Vancouver don't like to have fun. I'm not sure what you're implying.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, when an entire third of a city shows up for a festival, there's a good chance that said festival is the only thing happening in said city.

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

It was more of a comment of the industry as a whole, not our particular malls. However, if you look at our malls, the suburban ones are expanding while our one in the downtown core is not (despite having really strong sales per square foot numbers). But again, you need an accommodating city for that.

Brentwood, Lansdowne and Lougheed were/are failing - the expansion is really a makeover. Metrotown and Richmond Mall are doing fine, but want to do better by building out their inefficient parking space. Oakridge is currently having problems keeping business throughout their renovation.

Pacific Centre has plenty of traffic and no room to grow, so why would they rock the boat?

[Migrant_Coconut]

On a somewhat related note, the 2017 Celebration of Light drew slightly more people than the PNE's Expo '86 record; seems like people just prefer fireworks nowadays.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

On a somewhat related note, the 2017 Celebration of Light drew slightly more people than the PNE's Expo '86 record; seems like people just prefer fireworks nowadays.

People prefer free.

[SpongeG]

In the 3 decades I've lived here I have been to the PNE once, I really didn't get the fuss, you see some animals you avoid buying the latest as seen on TV gadget you go home, not really that exciting.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I suspect because our PNE has a ton of different competition for peoples' recreational time and money. Edmonton likely does not have as many of those other options.

It's not like people in Vancouver don't like to have fun. I'm not sure what you're implying.

I'm implying we fall short in fair attendance.

There are other options in every city across the country.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yeah, when an entire third of a city shows up for a festival, there's a good chance that said festival is the only thing happening in said city.




Pacific Centre has plenty of traffic and no room to grow, so why would they rock the boat?

Or another, less cynical view is that the event is run so well 1/3 of the population comes out.


And not true. Pacific Centre has room to grow. To see how it can be done, look to Calgary and their downtown mall.

And why "rock the boat" To make more friggin $$$$$

The reason any business, anywhere "rocks the boat"

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

In the 3 decades I've lived here I have been to the PNE once, I really didn't get the fuss, you see some animals you avoid buying the latest as seen on TV gadget you go home, not really that exciting.

I agree. My kid likes rides and my wife likes the nostalgia.

Apparently you'd be blown away by Edmonton's fair.

[LeftCoaster]

Who cares about a Fair? Is it 1935 all of a sudden?

Overly crowded, fried food, crappy rides. Waste of time.

What are we going to lament next, the lack of a big tent circus or rag time theatre?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

It was more of a comment of the industry as a whole, not our particular malls. However, if you look at our malls, the suburban ones are expanding while our one in the downtown core is not (despite having really strong sales per square foot numbers). But again, you need an accommodating city for that.

Again, very much in agreement. I was just thwarting WarrenC12's unsubstantiated claim about malls suffering. Malls are not in Vancouver, or even in Canada: not even close. Street retailing, however, isn't doing that well.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Malls? You bet they are getting crushed thanks to Amazon. Look around North America for examples of that.

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Or another, less cynical view is that the event is run so well 1/3 of the population comes out.


And not true. Pacific Centre has room to grow. To see how it can be done, look to Calgary and their downtown mall.

And why "rock the boat" To make more friggin $$$$$

The reason any business, anywhere "rocks the boat"

I applaud you for saying that. For a city much smaller than Vancouver, Calgary's The Core has a square footage much larger than the Pacific Centre mall. On top of that, there is another mall right next to it. It's not that Vancouver has no demand for City centre malls, it's just backward-thinking planners here who keep coming up with their own ideals that don't seem to work too well.

[Vin]

Why can't PNE joint venture with a proper theme park operator like Merlin Entertainments (UK), 6 Flags, Universal Studios or even Disney to build a proper theme park so that we can be propelled to the 21st century? Geez we are so behind in almost everything.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Or another, less cynical view is that the event is run so well 1/3 of the population comes out.


And not true. Pacific Centre has room to grow. To see how it can be done, look to Calgary and their downtown mall.

And why "rock the boat" To make more friggin $$$$$

The reason any business, anywhere "rocks the boat"

Oy, cynicism is the entire point of both our arguments!

If that's the logic we're going with, then Toronto should be ashamed of themselves for getting less than a quarter of their city despite being thrice as big as BC Place. Or maybe venue size is only part of the story...

---

Do you mean The Core or Eau Claire? One has basically the same built-up form as Pacific Centre's 2015 rebuild, and the other is a suburban-type mall that's expecting a near-complete teardown and rebuild (with the parking lot taking most of the density). PC can't do that with all the fully-occupied towers in the way, not without losing friggin' $$$$$ and chasing away customers that may or may not come back; gotta settle for replacing the rotunda with a 3-floor building like they're doing now. Might change when Four Seasons moves out.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Oy, cynicism is the entire point of both our arguments!

If that's the logic we're going with, then Toronto should be ashamed of themselves for getting less than a quarter of their city despite being thrice as big as BC Place. Or maybe venue size is only part of the story...

---

Do you mean The Core or Eau Claire? One has basically the same built-up form as Pacific Centre's 2015 rebuild, and the other is a suburban-type mall that's expecting a near-complete teardown and rebuild (with the parking lot taking most of the density). PC can't do that with all the fully-occupied towers in the way, not without losing friggin' $$$$$ and chasing away customers that may or may not come back; gotta settle for replacing the rotunda with a 3-floor building like they're doing now. Might change when Four Seasons moves out.

Not sure exactly what is thrice bigger than BC Place??

Yes, I was referring to The Core. They had similar area issues as Pacific Centre with buildings, tenants etc. Where the two separate is that the Core built over the street (building multiple floors in fact) right over the roadway, thus creating space where it simply did not exist before. Here in Vancouver, that would never happen as the city has an open hate on for bridges or skyways over streets. In fact, they were kinda hoping that the skyway leading to Holt Renfrew would come down. So again, we're going the wrong way.
The Core in Calgary also reconfigured some commercial space on the lower floors of existing infrastructure, to accommodate the expansion. Those same things could be done here.
I hold out hope that the new development on Georgia and Howe will bring us something new, but in the meantime, how about we (here's where it gets scary, so hang on to your hat) why don't we try more than just one approach to enhance the mall? Lets look to the model from our neighbours from the next province over and not only duplicate it, but surpass it, and make it our own.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Vin

Why can't PNE joint venture with a proper theme park operator like Merlin Entertainments (UK), 6 Flags, Universal Studios or even Disney to build a proper theme park so that we can be propelled to the 21st century? Geez we are so behind in almost everything.

One of those companies you mention did want to at least explore the possibility of partnering with the PNE years ago, but they wanted control over the entire site, and the ability to expand over same, which was a non-starter for the city so that went nowhere quickly.

At a provincial level, the same company was interested in at least exploring the possibility of participating in a proposed site in Surrey when it looked like the PNE was going to move there. OF course the provincial government of the time botched that badly, and the rest is history.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Not sure exactly what is thrice bigger than BC Place??

Yes, I was referring to The Core. They had similar area issues as Pacific Centre with buildings, tenants etc. Where the two separate is that the Core built over the street (building multiple floors in fact) right over the roadway, thus creating space where it simply did not exist before. Here in Vancouver, that would never happen as the city has an open hate on for bridges or skyways over streets. In fact, they were kinda hoping that the skyway leading to Holt Renfrew would come down. So again, we're going the wrong way.
The Core in Calgary also reconfigured some commercial space on the lower floors of existing infrastructure, to accommodate the expansion. Those same things could be done here.
I hold out hope that the new development on Georgia and Howe will bring us something new, but in the meantime, how about we (here's where it gets scary, so hang on to your hat) why don't we try more than just one approach to enhance the mall? Lets look to the model from our neighbours from the next province over and not only duplicate it, but surpass it, and make it our own.

Sorry, Exhibition Place. The CNE is spread out over the entire site, including the parking, so running with the "space/organization = attendance" theory, they should have almost two million visitors a year.

Apples to oranges. It worked for the Core because the towers are beside the malls instead of on them. With 701 W Georgia and the TD Tower blocking the way, a continuous skylight is out of the question - best you could hope for is a diagonal walkway.
We can 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 about all the stupid things Vision/COPE/the NPA did, but that doesn't change anything. Most of the current Council seems open to hearing new ideas.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

One of those companies you mention did want to at least explore the possibility of partnering with the PNE years ago, but they wanted control over the entire site, and the ability to expand over same, which was a non-starter for the city so that went nowhere quickly.

At a provincial level, the same company was interested in at least exploring the possibility of participating in a proposed site in Surrey when it looked like the PNE was going to move there. OF course the provincial government of the time botched that badly, and the rest is history.

As I recall there was several proposals just before the liberals got in. Land was fairly cheap and the global property people were looking to get in early. But the No fun province got in the way and most never got beyond a front page of the province

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sorry, Exhibition Place. The CNE is spread out over the entire site, including the parking, so running with the "space/organization = attendance" theory, they should have almost two million visitors a year.

Apples to oranges. It worked for the Core because the towers are beside the malls instead of on them. With 701 W Georgia and the TD Tower blocking the way, a continuous skylight is out of the question - best you could hope for is a diagonal walkway.
We can 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 about all the stupid things Vision/COPE/the NPA did, but that doesn't change anything. Most of the current Council seems open to hearing new ideas.

The CNE runs a pretty healthy 1.5 million in attendance so thats roughly twice the attendance of the PNE. Over the years, they have added infrastructure to keep things fresh and have plenty of room for additional attractions. So has Calgary, and Edmonton. We here have not. All of their attendances have been strong and growing, while ours stagnated.

And disagree regarding differences between the malls. The Core built up leasable space in the sky. The exact same could/should happen here. If anything, its an advantage to have a basement floor, as you already have a solid base to build off of rather than reconfiguring existing stores above ground as happened in Calgary. You have lost of space to be creative with such as the Four Seasons lobby, whatever the new development will be on Howe and Georgia, the gawd awful courtyard across the street, and the skybridge across to Holt Renfrew. Tons of space available to pull of something quite significant.
Here it would be a blank slate to build from. You just need the will. I hope your assessment regarding the current council comes to fruition, but I haven't seen much yet that indicates that they're anything more than stewerds of the status quo but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.