YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[SFUVancouver]

Runway Excursion Safety Areas (RESA) aren't just a slab of concrete in the conventional sense. They're meticulously engineered structures in their own right and must meet extraordinary margins for soil stability (so there isn't subsistence or heaving) and they're strong AF (as the kids say) so that they can shrug off the weight of the heaviest aircraft (A380s, 777s, 747s, military transports, etc.) slamming down prior to the runway itself in perilous situations like severe wind shear and microbursts (those have killed a lot of people over the years, Google Delta flight 191; yikes).

With all of that said, it's not the most aesthetically pleasing slab of concrete ever poured. I suspect there is a lot of seasonal staining occurring, particularly in the expansion joints and drainage cuts.

Bottom line, the requirement for RESAs are a reality and airports the world over are struggling with how to create them, especially when airports are hemmed in by ring roads or physical constraints like topo or water bodies. That YVR decided to double the forthcoming Transport Canada RESA requirement, and go for 300 metres at each end is laudable and will serve the airport and traveling public well for decades to come.

[Klazu]

Yeah, no one is denying that they are a good addition, but no matter how one looks at it, they are still just an over-engineered slab of concrete. For anything like that to cost more than a few million is incredible. 150 million dollars sounds like highway robbery unless they mixed the concrete with diamonds!!

[nname]

Originally Posted by connect2source

The 150M is for the 300m RESA on both the North and South runways, so about 75M each.

The requirement is 150m on each end, but the recommendation is 300m. YVR decided to go for 300m right away, as the requirement may be increased sooner or later.

So the construction should be 300m on each end of 2 runways means, 1200m of extra runway, plus extending the parallel taxiway to access the end of RESA...

[officedweller]

delete - nname mentioned what I was going to say

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by casper

I would not read to much into where the pilots and flight attendants are based from. Many of them chose to live in a different city than there base and they "jump seat" from home to their "base". No shortage of WestJet and AC pilots who live on Vancouver Island or Vancouver and are officially based in Calgary.

They are buying provisioning the aircraft, buying fuel etc. locally.

Well so was Transat, but they also based their pilots out of Van. All in all this is of course a loss of service. Surprised no one has jumped in to fill the void, but there is still the mystery of AC and their un-utilized B788 frame from YVR-LHR.

And jump seating is not that common of a phenomenon. It happens of course but not to the extent that were going to get multiple WestJet dereamliner pilots living in Vancouver, like AC pilots in Van. In the west Westjet is a Calgary airline, period. AC functions like a local airline, despite it having multiple hubs, Westjet has two hubs and that is it.

[casper]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well so was Transat, but they also based their pilots out of Van. All in all this is of course a loss of service. Surprised no one has jumped in to fill the void, but there is still the mystery of AC and their un-utilized B788 frame from YVR-LHR.

And jump seating is not that common of a phenomenon. It happens of course but not to the extent that were going to get multiple WestJet dereamliner pilots living in Vancouver, like AC pilots in Van. In the west Westjet is a Calgary airline, period. AC functions like a local airline, despite it having multiple hubs, Westjet has two hubs and that is it.

The "hub" description is a bad fit sometimes. Westjet is running flights from London to Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

.../edit/ In the west Westjet is a Calgary airline, period. AC functions like a local airline, despite it having multiple hubs, Westjet has two hubs and that is it.

Originally Posted by casper

The "hub" description is a bad fit sometimes. Westjet is running flights from London to Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto.

On Westjet's plan for future destinations, CCY will develop new, presumably year-round overseas destinations, YYZ will - big time!, and YVR too. I think YVR may then become a true WS hub.

https://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wjet787.png

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

On Westjet's plan for future destinations, CCY will develop new, presumably year-round overseas destinations, YYZ will - big time!, and YVR too. I think YVR may then become a true WS hub.

https://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wjet787.png

Looks more like a pipe-dream, or really just a visualization of the range of the 787 than any sort of "plan".

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Looks more like a pipe-dream, or really just a visualization of the range of the 787 than any sort of "plan".

Perhaps it is sort of a "pipe dream." But Westjet published it, so presumably it is a goal, even if it may be hard to attain. Nevertheless, it is ambitious, and gives YVR importance as a hub.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

On Westjet's plan for future destinations, CCY will develop new, presumably year-round overseas destinations, YYZ will - big time!, and YVR too. I think YVR may then become a true WS hub.

https://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wjet787.png

Wow that shows more flights from Vancouver than Calgary!

[s211]

On another front, I had someone tell me that their Melbourne to Vancouver flight on AC a few days ago had only 60 passengers on it. Any idea if that was an isolated incident? I'm curious because another traveler on the same flight a few weeks earlier said that the plane was roughly half-full.

[SpongeG]

I took that flight last year and It was I would say over 90% full, the business class looked pretty sparse but I couldn't really see much as we didn't get to walk through it.

Now I don't know if this affected why it was so full but the same day the Brisbane flight had been cancelled I think due to a weather issue and they were putting people from that flight onto the Melbourne and Sydney flights and getting them there that way.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Perhaps it is sort of a "pipe dream." But Westjet published it, so presumably it is a goal, even if it may be hard to attain. Nevertheless, it is ambitious, and gives YVR importance as a hub.

Goals change.

It is quite clear that today WS intents to have one hub in Western Canada, and that if you want to fly WestJet to anywhere other than a handful of locations the expectation is you will have to make a connection in Calgary.

That goal as well could change, but they've made their intentions quite clear at this point.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Goals change.

It is quite clear that today WS intents to have one hub in Western Canada, and that if you want to fly WestJet to anywhere other than a handful of locations the expectation is you will have to make a connection in Calgary.

That goal as well could change, but they've made their intentions quite clear at this point.

Your point is well taken. There is one major hub at YYC and one at YYZ. I committed the 'error' of projecting into the future, when YVR would be a WS hub if expansion plans go ahead.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

On another front, I had someone tell me that their Melbourne to Vancouver flight on AC a few days ago had only 60 passengers on it. Any idea if that was an isolated incident? I'm curious because another traveler on the same flight a few weeks earlier said that the plane was roughly half-full.

November is still off-season. I imagine they also do pretty well with freight on the Australia flights as there the only game in town going direct.

[nname]

Originally Posted by s211

On another front, I had someone tell me that their Melbourne to Vancouver flight on AC a few days ago had only 60 passengers on it. Any idea if that was an isolated incident? I'm curious because another traveler on the same flight a few weeks earlier said that the plane was roughly half-full.

October data will be posted within the next 2 months, but as for July and August, LF for YVR-MEL is similar to SYD and BNE routes:

July
YVR-MEL		4723/5194	90.9%
MEL-YVR		4481/5337	84.0%

August
YVR-MEL		3975/4834	82.2%
MEL-YVR		4476/4977	90.0%

Source: https://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/international.aspx

Seems like there are weight restrictions for flights to MEL...

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

October data will be posted within the next 2 months, but as for July and August, LF for YVR-MEL is similar to SYD and BNE routes:

July
YVR-MEL		4723/5194	90.9%
MEL-YVR		4481/5337	84.0%

August
YVR-MEL		3975/4834	82.2%
MEL-YVR		4476/4977	90.0%

Source: https://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/international.aspx

Seems like there are weight restrictions for flights to MEL...

Isn’t BITRE a fantastic stat source!

AC LF for Australia as a whole was 89.8% in July and 85.3% in Aug.

My sources and anecdotal info indicates J does very well on the MEL-YVR route.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Isn’t BITRE a fantastic stat source!

AC LF for Australia as a whole was 89.8% in July and 85.3% in Aug.

My sources and anecdotal info indicates J does very well on the MEL-YVR route.

The yields I've seen, and your mention of J class doing so well are reassuring! At the first couple of mentions of partly empty planes, I feared YVR - MEL might be reduced or even eliminated.
About Qantas, a question, please: is there any chance at all they might come back full time? I love QANTAS for not only family reasons, but the red 'roo design, and the name are so snazzy!

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

The yields I've seen, and your mention of J class doing so well are reassuring!

You haven’t seen the yields. You’ve seen the load factors, which in itself are meaningless.

AC Q3 earnings call from a few days ago:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4300117...q3-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript

Lucie Guillemette (Air Canada CFO): “Australia continued to be negatively impacted by increased industry capacity from North America in the quarter.”

They’ve been mentioning this for several quarters now. That tells me yields aren’t where AC wants them to be. This doesn’t mean routes will be canned, it simply means there is more capacity than what the market can absorb, which affects yields.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

You haven’t seen the yields. You’ve seen the load factors, which in itself are meaningless.

AC Q3 earnings call from a few days ago:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4300117...q3-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript

Lucie Guillemette (Air Canada CFO): “Australia continued to be negatively impacted by increased industry capacity from North America in the quarter.”

They’ve been mentioning this for several quarters now. That tells me yields aren’t where AC wants them to be. This doesn’t mean routes will be canned, it simply means there is more capacity than what the market can absorb, which affects yields.

No idea what is happening with routes to the US. On the Canadian front there is one airline that has added significant capacity between Canada and Australian. Now it is discovering the extra capacity is not be absorbed. Interesting.