Barrhaven LRT | Proposed

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Didn't the express buses skip any station within the Greenbelt outside Tunney's to Hurdman?

Maybe they were supposed to or something. But I very rarely had an issue flagging down a bus.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The majority of riders won't get a seat. The trains have more standing room than seats. It will be a major shift in mentality for all involved: the age of double deckers with seats for everyone is over.

I am curious how this works. If the trains are standing room only leaving Blair, they'll be crush load after boarding at Hurdman.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I have a feeling the trains will be tight at first. Hopefully, OC can add some trains over the next year to increase frequency/capacity. Once Stage 2 launches, some trains will be short-turned at Blair, increasing the capacity for the central segment.

Short-turning only works if frequencies are reasonable. If it's 5 min frequencies and short-turning, there will be problems.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

To stay within the thread's subject matter, the inner-grennbelters in the west end might not be so lucky since all trains (at rush hour) will have come from Kanata or Barrhaven. No short-turns for them.

After Stage 2, is when the fireworks really begin. No seats beyond Bayshore. And crush loads beyond Bayview, if they don't put on loads of capacity.

[lrt's friend]

After Stage 2, is when the fireworks really begin. No seats beyond Bayshore. And crush loads beyond Bayview, if they don't put on loads of capacity.

That assumes significant ridership growth. All we are doing when Stage 2 opens is move boarding further west. Next week, everybody from the west end has to board at Tunney's.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Didn't the express buses skip any station within the Greenbelt outside Tunney's to Hurdman?

.

I think that the stopping policy for express buses along the Transitway has varied throughout its history.

I recall some years or decades where any express bus would stop to pick you at any station if you "hailed" it and it wasn't totally packed. AM or PM peak, didn't matter.

There were also years when the policy was that they'd drop you off at any station inbound in the morning if you rang the bell, and pick up outbound at any station in the afternoon, but that there was no accommodation outside of that for people who say wanted to go between Rideau and St. Laurent on that express. Your boarding in the morning had to coincide with someone getting off where you were waiting, and they wouldn't stop just for you. Likewise in the afternoons they wouldn't necessarily stop to let you off if there wasn't a person waiting at the stop hailing it to get on. The idea being to "reserve" the express buses for people in suburban area X, and not for inner city people looking for alternatives to the 95-96-97.

Another policy we have seen at times has been that the express buses only stop at certain designated stations and drive right by a number of them.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that the stopping policy for express buses along the Transitway has varied throughout its history.

I recall some years or decades where any express bus would stop to pick you at any station if you "hailed" it and it wasn't totally packed. AM or PM peak, didn't matter.

There were also years when the policy was that they'd drop you off at any station inbound in the morning if you rang the bell, and pick up outbound at any station in the afternoon, but that there was no accommodation outside of that for people who say wanted to go between Rideau and St. Laurent on that express. Your boarding in the morning had to coincide with someone getting off where you were waiting, and they wouldn't stop just for you. Likewise in the afternoons they wouldn't necessarily stop to let you off if there wasn't a person waiting at the stop hailing it to get on. The idea being to "reserve" the express buses for people in suburban area X, and not for inner city people looking for alternatives to the 95-96-97.

Another policy we have seen at times has been that the express buses only stop at certain designated stations and drive right by a number of them.

This was formerly controlled by the higher fares applied to express routes. People didn't want to use them when a higher fare was to be paid when your destination was inside the Greenbelt. That has now been done away with.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This was formerly controlled by the higher fares applied to express routes. People didn't want to use them when a higher fare was to be paid when your destination was inside the Greenbelt. That has now been done away with.

That was the idea, but many would pay the extra fee to get a faster bus that was more likely to have a seat (especially if they could get on early in its route). The problem was, often they would fill up with people who could catch any bus and have to turn away people who needed that bus. Then by the time it got out to the suburbs, over half the people had gotten off, so it ended up driving around the suburban streets empty, when it could have had many more passengers had it not been full at the time.

[waterloowarrior]

Open House Oct 30 2019
https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...d-environmental-assessment-study#1398407

[jchilds72]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Open House Oct 30 2019
https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...d-environmental-assessment-study#1398407

Anybody going?

[zzptichka]

Slides with 6 alignment alternatives: https://imgur.com/a/XWAT955

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Slides with 6 alignment alternatives:

Good Day.

Thank You !

Noteable that, due to the infringement allowed in the past, that they are forced to consider non-expropriation alternatives between Knoxdale and W.HuntClub.
It will be interesting to see how they evaluate, contrast, and compare, the relevant and relative costs of expropriation .vs. trench .vs. tunnel .vs. elevated in that stretch.

Much appreciated.

[Multi-modal]

Interesting tidbits I can see from your images:

• Marketplace Station is being removed
• They are planning a "temporary" P&R at Barrhaven Town Centre Station. I assume it says temporary because it would be removed when SW Transitway is extended south? Removal of a P&R is going to be... tricky.
• Apparently lessons were not learned @ Hurdman or Tunney's, because bus platforms seem to be off-set from the station entrances at Fallowfield and Barrhaven Town Centre.
• Just looking at it briefly, Fallowfield actually seems thoughtfully laid out (although it could use a second station entrance at the bus platforms) but Barrhaven Town Centre could use some work.
• Island/Centre platforms at Fallowfield, Strandherd, and Barrhaven Town Centre
• Fallowfield includes quite a lengthy pocket track.
• No indication of how Baseline Station will be reconfigured after "Stage 3".

[Kitchissippi]

I'm surprised they don't just negotiate redevelopment of those old townhouses into much higher density housing built around a station closer to West Hunt Club. Those buildings seem to be reaching the end of their life cycle anyway. Upping the zoning density exponentially with direct transit access will add huge value to that property.

I'd also like to see a station right at the old CN rail corridor so that if it's ever used as a commuter line it would be ready as a transfer point.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I'm surprised they don't just negotiate redevelopment of those old townhouses into much higher density housing built around a station closer to West Hunt Club. Those buildings seem to be reaching the end of their life cycle anyway. Upping the zoning density exponentially with direct transit access will add huge value to that property.

I'd also like to see a station right at the old CN rail corridor so that if it's ever used as a commuter line it would be ready as a transfer point.

To be fair, Knoxdale Station is pretty close, within a couple hundred metres. I think that is fine for a transfer to a theoretical CN rail corridor station.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I'd also like to see a station right at the old CN rail corridor so that if it's ever used as a commuter line it would be ready as a transfer point.

You are absolutely correct. Let's not end up with another poorly designed station like Bayview. We need to think about the future. Just because we have not implemented a commuter service on existing rail tracks doesn't mean that we never will. We need to feed commuters onto the O-Train and bus system at a variety of locations so as to not overwhelm the system at any one station. All we need to do is to move the proposed station a little north so it can still service Knoxdale and the CN tracks. The CN overpass is future proofed as it can handle double tracks. Build the station once and do it right!!!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

You are absolutely correct. Let's not end up with another poorly designed station like Bayview. We need to think about the future. Just because we have not implemented a commuter service on existing rail tracks doesn't mean that we never will. We need to feed commuters onto the O-Train and bus system at a variety of locations so as to not overwhelm the system at any one station. All we need to do is to move the proposed station a little north so it can still service Knoxdale and the CN tracks. The CN overpass is future proofed as it can handle double tracks. Build the station once and do it right!!!

The difference is that we knew that Bayview would become a major transfer station, and they still came up with the absolute worse layout, ensuring that any expansion options would be limited if not eliminated.

For the Barrhaven options, I'm glad they eliminated Marketplace Station. It was absolutely unnecessary. Quite ridiculous that they envisioned minimal spacing for suburban stations while the inner-Greenbelt stations along dense (or densifying) corridors are few and far between.

As for the corridor options, my vote would be for a trench the entire way. Cheaper than tunnels, comparable to elevated, but limits the change in elevation which can slow down the trains and wear out equipment faster. For those same reasons, stick with a straighter alignment.

[waterloowarrior]

Woodroffe/CN Rail envisioned as a major transfer station in the previous LRT plan



https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/trc/2005/02-16/ACS2005-DEV-POL-0003.htm

https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/...05-18/POL-0024-document%204-PART%201.htm

https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/...05-18/POL-0024-document%204-part%202.htm

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

As for the corridor options, my vote would be for a trench the entire way. Cheaper than tunnels, comparable to elevated, but limits the change in elevation which can slow down the trains and wear out equipment faster. For those same reasons, stick with a straighter alignment.

Trenches can pose more problems with drainage and snow. Wait until Stage 2 has been running for a couple of winters and see how well the snow will be removed from the stations that are in an open trench with no roof, particularly Cleary ( which should be renamed Sherbourne ) and New Orchard. It does not appear in the renderings on the trainfans website as if there is enough room for a temporary snow bank that can be removed after several days of storms. Both the tracks and the platforms will need to be cleared. Once again penny wise and pound foolish.

[waterloowarrior]

Display boards posted
https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...d-environmental-assessment-study#1398407

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Trenches can pose more problems with drainage and snow. Wait until Stage 2 has been running for a couple of winters and see how well the snow will be removed from the stations that are in an open trench with no roof, particularly Cleary ( which should be renamed Sherbourne ) and New Orchard. It does not appear in the renderings on the trainfans website as if there is enough room for a temporary snow bank that can be removed after several days of storms. Both the tracks and the platforms will need to be cleared. Once again penny wise and pound foolish.

Will the stage 2 stations not have the same heated platforms for melting ice and snow that the stage 1 ones have?

[Multi-modal]

So, the boards actually say "temporary or permanent" P&R at Barrhaven Town Centre. Why must all of our stations have a P&R.... I'm not feeling this one.

The last set of boards talk about another small (8-train) light maintenance and storage facility - it sounds like based on the wording they are favoring the area west of the SW Transitway and north of Highbury.

Also - I think this is the latest map we have of the entire completed, under construction, and planned rail network:



The map left-out Longfields Station though, poor Longfields... *EDIT* - no it didn't, I'm crazy.

[lrt's friend]

Our aim is to force everybody through the faulty Phase 1.