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  #5921  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 9:30 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Saw something earlier this week, I can't remember. Trip Advisor maybe? One of those things you see and ignore.

I really think you suffer from "grass is greener" syndrome.
Yeah, the grass is greener indeed, and away from downtown Vancouver that's for sure. Do you think tourists come here for our downtown? Nope, they are here for something different OUTSIDE.

Honestly, let's see if the following are rated highly in the world of international travel:

* Vancouver Art Gallery
* Granville entertainment district
* Pacific Centre mall
* Chinatown (please read Tripadvisor comments for some kicks)
* Gastown & DTES
* Parq casino

Second-rated at best I have to say.

The only things I see tourists come for in the downtown area are Stanley Park and Granville Island, but then again THEY ARE NOT DOWNTOWN, and are mostly capitalizing on the natural wonders of this place.

We are just continuing to dumb down this city by taking away previously built good infrastructure, older buildings etc., with most Vancouver planners too blind to see that.
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  #5922  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
You can't say that surveys are unreliable source for data, then in practically the next line use surveys to use a base to say an initiative was a success. Can'y have it both ways.
Using surveys for a quantitative study is a slippery slope to begin with.

Also, an article quoting chief nimby Gordy Price, and Mayor Moonbeam's staffer? No agenda there or anything. Not to mention, the article is a puff piece in the first place. Even then, did you notice the trends of how many trips across each pathway? Not exactly earth shattering either way, but you could bet if those figures were true of cars you'd hear some hear stating "car usage is dropping like a stone, nobody is driving anymore" etc etc etc. By the articles own figures, trip rates have fallen (in some cases quite considerably) since 2016 (EXCEPT on the VIADUCTS-love the irony!). Don't see anyone calling for the demolition of the bike lane infrastructure.

#DoubleStandardMuch?
Cars did not have a 21% increase in commuting between 2006 and 2016 in Vancouver. All the other modes did. Cycling between 2011-2016 increased by 2%.

Meanwhile private vehicle numbers for commuting decline.
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  #5923  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Probly this list...



https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-most-visited-city-north-america

Vancouver is ranked 7th in North America and finished ahead of Montreal, San Francisco, and Washington DC. Baltimore and Minneapolis are ranked at 236th and 264th place respectively.
That's the one, thanks!
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  #5924  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 9:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Yeah, the grass is greener indeed, and away from downtown Vancouver that's for sure. Do you think tourists come here for our downtown? Nope, they are here for something different OUTSIDE.
Why shouldn't we play to our strengths then, instead of trying to outdo NYC on their strengths?

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  #5925  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
Cars did not have a 21% increase in commuting between 2006 and 2016 in Vancouver. All the other modes did. Cycling between 2011-2016 increased by 2%.

Meanwhile private vehicle numbers for commuting decline.
Ah hah! Now the plot thickens.

I like how folks here keep arguing only about the number of private vehicles decreasing.
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  #5926  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Why shouldn't we play to our strengths then, instead of trying to outdo NYC on their strengths?

Maybe only a few of us have the desire to be strong in as many things as we can?

Don't even mention NYC! Soon we can't even outdo Edmonton or Calgary, or most embarrassing of all, Metrotown or Surrey Central.
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  #5927  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Maybe only a few of us have the desire to be strong in as many things as we can?

Don't even mention NYC! Soon we can't even outdo Edmonton or Calgary, or most embarrassing of all, Metrotown or Surrey Central.
You can't be all things to all people. Vancouver is unique in many positive ways.

It's not all about generic malls...
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  #5928  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Ah hah! Now the plot thickens.

I like how folks here keep arguing only about the number of private vehicles decreasing.
I don't think anyone is arguing that the data collected over a decade, especially in Vancouver, has shown that the percentage of commuting by private vehicle has decreased while all other modes (transit, bike, walking) has increased.

Vehicle mode share for commuting has been declining over the years and is now roughly at or below 50% of the total City's mode share.

Between 2006 - 2016 walking, biking, and transit saw a 21% increase in the total modal share. That's a good thing.
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  #5929  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
That's the one, thanks!
Actually it was probably this one, which came out this week from Lonely Planet. Salzburg ranked first.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/vancouv...op-cities-to-travel-to-in-2020-1.4648950
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  #5930  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2019, 3:42 AM
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
Agreed. Although I'd put us on the lower end of average.

But why must we settle for that? Why not be above average? Or higher?

We were once upon a time, but then things went sideways.
Because amenities may come and go (not a lot of private donors, and we definitely can't control what the NBA does), but Vancouver needs to stand on its own. Laugh at the NEFC elementary school, groan at Parq or losing F1... ultimately this IS a city. Orlando without Disney and Universal is kind of dysfunctional.

We're above average in our own way - the seawall today was definitely one of a kind, especially at sundown. Just need to get some critical mass.

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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Why shouldn't we play to our strengths then, instead of trying to outdo NYC on their strengths?
Vancouver's social/cultural/urban aspects need a tune up, but it's true, we're not going to match the East's 400+ years of culture and history.

Perhaps we should do both, run with B.C's general "Super, Natural" angle - natural history museums, wildlife conservation parks, observation towers, a bigger aquarium, charter fishing, aerial tours, whale watch subsidies...
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  #5931  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2019, 3:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
I don't think anyone is arguing that the data collected over a decade, especially in Vancouver, has shown that the percentage of commuting by private vehicle has decreased while all other modes (transit, bike, walking) has increased.

Vehicle mode share for commuting has been declining over the years and is now roughly at or below 50% of the total City's mode share.

Between 2006 - 2016 walking, biking, and transit saw a 21% increase in the total modal share. That's a good thing.
And they conveniently leave out the fact that more buses and delivery vehicles, taxis, etc. make their trips in and out downtown? Wait till Uber comes online. And are co-op share vehicles considered private vehicles too? There are tons of those on the roads these days.

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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
You can't be all things to all people. Vancouver is unique in many positive ways.

It's not all about generic malls...
Perhaps generic malls are for you. Downtown malls are not generic (maybe you love those suburb strip malls: I don't). City centre malls are a community gathering place, tourist attraction as well as an entertainment complex for local residents. It doesn't hurt for Vancouver to be unique, then has a lot more to offer.
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  #5932  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
And they conveniently leave out the fact that more buses and delivery vehicles, taxis, etc. make their trips in and out downtown? Wait till Uber comes online. And are co-op share vehicles considered private vehicles too? There are tons of those on the roads these days.
I think, statistically, more buses and taxis and smaller category delivery vehicles have a higher concentration in the Downtown as opposed to other City areas, but I'm not sure what this objectively does for keeping or removing the viaducts.

Statistically speaking, overall vehicle counts in / out of Downtown (as previously stated I'm not certain this would included or excluded buses) have been relatively stagnant and slightly yearly decreasing, even with population growth in all areas of the Metro area - especially Metro Core.

The City of Vancouver does take more specific data on "trips", not only the primary mode generally used to commute to work / school. This highlights more off-peak travelling. Carshare is a "private vehicle" or "passenger", unless more minutely sub-categorized for mere differentiation in the data. More carshares also does not equal more cars, in general, in the City. Which makes them so fantastic.

Lastly, Stats Canada commuting data would not include delivery vehicles and mode share in the City is at or under 50% for private vehicle use (driver or passenger).

Last edited by GenWhy?; Oct 28, 2019 at 5:33 PM.
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  #5933  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 5:25 PM
EastVanMark EastVanMark is offline
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
Cars did not have a 21% increase in commuting between 2006 and 2016 in Vancouver. All the other modes did. Cycling between 2011-2016 increased by 2%.

Meanwhile private vehicle numbers for commuting decline.
1).When you are measuring from zero, (there was very little by way of infrastructure back in 2006) it's easy to get percentage increases.
Lets wait a decade or so until we really can judge things based on a percentage. I suspect that things will start to even out (I believe this is starting already).

Regardless, people like to use the basis for tearing down the viaducts when there's even the slightest usage drop, but yet when they drop for the bike infrastructure usage (as was clearly the case in the article), not a peep.
Can't have it both ways.

Last edited by EastVanMark; Oct 28, 2019 at 5:47 PM.
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  #5934  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 5:30 PM
EastVanMark EastVanMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Maybe only a few of us have the desire to be strong in as many things as we can?

Don't even mention NYC! Soon we can't even outdo Edmonton or Calgary, or most embarrassing of all, Metrotown or Surrey Central.
What a far out, crazy concept.

Who knew you could be good at 2 things at the same time

And exactly. Nevermind, New York, lets start off by designing a better entertainment district than noted metropolis Edmonton, Alberta shall we before we worry about NYC mkay?
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  #5935  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 5:42 PM
EastVanMark EastVanMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Because amenities may come and go (not a lot of private donors, and we definitely can't control what the NBA does), but Vancouver needs to stand on its own. Laugh at the NEFC elementary school, groan at Parq or losing F1... ultimately this IS a city. Orlando without Disney and Universal is kind of dysfunctional.

We're above average in our own way - the seawall today was definitely one of a kind, especially at sundown. Just need to get some critical mass.



Vancouver's social/cultural/urban aspects need a tune up, but it's true, we're not going to match the East's 400+ years of culture and history.

Perhaps we should do both, run with B.C's general "Super, Natural" angle - natural history museums, wildlife conservation parks, observation towers, a bigger aquarium, charter fishing, aerial tours, whale watch subsidies...
While you can't control what entities do, you certainly can do enough to entice them to stay/set up shop here (btw we never had F1). Right now, we do a horrible job at those. Amenities come and go? Is the Eiffel Tower, Roman Coliseum, Roppongi District, Piccadiliy Circus Vegas strip leaving us anytime soon?
Again, never claimed it wasn't a city; its just that is a boring one that isn't living up to its full potential.
Also, where does it say that you can't be good at BOTH (natural & manmade attractions)?
And it wasn't just me laughing at the elementary school in our "entertainment" district, but rather planners from some of the liveliest cities on earth.
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  #5936  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 5:49 PM
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Of all the places i went in Tokyo I disliked Roppongi the most, very generic.
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  #5937  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
1).When you are measuring from zero, (there was very little by way of infrastructure back in 2006) it's easy to get percentage increases.
Lets wait a decade or so until we really can judge things based on a percentage. I suspect that things will start to even out (I believe this is starting already).

Regardless, people like to use the basis for tearing down the viaducts when there's even the slightest usage drop, but yet when they drop for the bike infrastructure, not a peep.
Can't have it both ways.
Bikes being a joke aside, bus ridership's steadily gaining despite little to no extra roadspace. Combined with the SkyTrain, it's more or less competitive with driving nowadays.

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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
What a far out, crazy concept.

Who knew you could be good at 2 things at the same time

And exactly. Nevermind, New York, lets start off by designing a better entertainment district than noted metropolis Edmonton, Alberta shall we before we worry about NYC mkay?
Probably not the best idea to agree with a user whose only yardstick is building height.

We've got Granville, Robson and Davie busy all year, with NEFC soon to follow once the viaducts come down. With due respect to Edmonton, it's the only Canadian metro I know where downtown is cheaper than the suburbs; much of the entertainment is short festivals.

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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
While you can't control what entities do, you certainly can do enough to entice them to stay/set up shop here (btw we never had F1). Right now, we do a horrible job at those. Amenities come and go? Is the Eiffel Tower, Roman Coliseum, Roppongi District, Piccadiliy Circus Vegas strip leaving us anytime soon?
Again, never claimed it wasn't a city; its just that is a boring one that isn't living up to its full potential.
Also, where does it say that you can't be good at BOTH (natural & manmade attractions)?
And it wasn't just me laughing at the elementary school in our "entertainment" district, but rather planners from some of the liveliest cities on earth.
Indy, my mistake. Point remains - if you're upset with the city's traffic now, can you imagine the disruption if we'd kept the races?

Paris: had a World's Fair in the Victorian era, and a visionary local; was almost shot down by NIMBYs. We got Science World.
Rome: capital of a giant ancient empire that got their kicks through conquest and slave fights. We could try restoring the First Nations villages in Stanley Park? That's the only ancient ruin we've got.
Tokyo: the one part of the city that was open to nanban. '89 market crash temporarily killed it, which is kind of where Granville is now, so give the GED another 10+ years.
London: major throughfare in a major city. Almost got torn down and replaced with a highway (hint hint hint).
Vegas: started as a mafia hideout. I don't want any more money laundering than we have now, TYVM.

Several centuries, even millennia, of random global events and Big Money. Trying to reach historical/cultural/economic parity is a pipe dream. Spending money (which we don't have) building something like Brasilia or the Cairo replacement would be equally wasted.

In terms of civilization, Vancouver's in the ass-end of the planet; it's been around as a city less than two hundred years, and half of that was spent being a forest. Sure, we can become good at cultural attractions, but since we don't have culture to begin with, maybe we start by playing to our strengths? Got a few ideas in the last post.

At any rate, we are WAY off-topic here. Maybe we should set up a separate amenities thread.
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  #5938  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
1).When you are measuring from zero, (there was very little by way of infrastructure back in 2006) it's easy to get percentage increases.
Lets wait a decade or so until we really can judge things based on a percentage. I suspect that things will start to even out (I believe this is starting already).
Agreed. 10 years ago there was very little cycling infrastructure, but with its gradual implementation City-wide we have seen it as one of the quickest and largest growing modes of commuting in the City. Calculating the 2011-2016 Stats Canada cycling data for commuting modal share did not "start from zero".

Commuting by foot is at roughly over 20% modal share in the City and within the same amount of time grew the same percent as the above cycling data by percent.

Vehicle counts into/out of downtown are not increasing, even with our Regional population growth, and Metro Core employment growth. All other modes are increasing, especially in the suburban cities.

Historically, from 1996-2016, Metro Vancouver commute by car went from roughly 77% to about 69%. By 2021 Census would not be surprised to see it at another historic low of 65% for the Metro. Hopefully by 2026 the Broadway extension will be included.

If you want to go all the way back to 1985, commute by car was just over 80% in the Metro. Mind you Metro population in 1981 was 1.17 million and in 2016 was 2.46 million.

Take it with a grain of salt, but a friend over the weekend was telling me a City transportation engineer, with old incoming/outgoing data from the 60's and 70's (mind you we're much more accurate in collecting data today), found even with lane closures and population increase, the Downtown vehicle traffic is the same as the 1960's! IF this were true... mind blown.
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  #5939  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 6:53 PM
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how much has office space grown since the 70's? not much really? I am sure someone can provide the facts.

Will all these new projects underway now have an impact on traffic?
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  #5940  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
how much has office space grown since the 70's? not much really? I am sure someone can provide the facts.

Will all these new projects underway now have an impact on traffic?
Jobs have roughly doubled since the 60's in the Downtown, population too, and we're still seeing low car commute numbers into-out of the Downtown and Downtown has the highest walking % commute
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