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  #13041  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 2:50 PM
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McKellarDweller McKellarDweller is offline
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A few times I've randomly happened to notice there are sometimes 100 to 150+ lurkers at a time viewing the Transportation section of SSP Ottawa (safe to assume a high % of that on this thread). I wonder if there's any thread at all anywhere on SSP getting more eyes on it presently than this one.
     
     
  #13042  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 2:53 PM
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When the door with the fault is locked, the train should be able to move to a terminus station so that it is a more convenient location for crews to repair the fault and minimize delays. If there is currently not enough capacity to do this then a pocket track should be constructed to park the train without taking up track space.

The doors should not be set to automatic at surface stations in the winter period.

The 5th module should be added to the car sets in increase capacity if there are not sufficient trains once all 15 sets are running.

OC Transpo personnel currently working the platforms should remain on the payroll until there are no more door issues during rush hour or periods of heavy ridership such as Canada Day, Bluesfest and the arena at LeBreton Flats (if it ever gets built).

Passengers should be fined for holding or prying doors.

On the concourse level at terminating stations there should be display signs directing passengers to the platform for the next departure.

Service disruptions should be made easily available on the website so that occasional users do not have to subscribe to service alerts.
     
     
  #13043  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
At Hurdman, the Kiss n Ride and walk in access should not get better access to the station than the vast majority who are doing bus transfers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
I think the real reason for the layout at Hurdman is to allow a direct north-south axis to the river MUPs from the south without having to go through the fare paid area.
Other reasons for its configuration might be the South-East Transitway's entry point which probably can't be moved. The NCC likely wants to limit the amount of land taken over by transit in order to maximize development when the time comes.

The worst configurations on the system are Tunney's, which can't effectively deal with thousands transferring from bus to rail (nearly everyone in the west end is forced to do so), and Bayview, which greatly limits ALL options for the Trillium Line.

Hurdman is not perfect, but I don't see major issues with the configuration considering the volume of bus transfers. The lack of shelters and width of the bus platform are bigger issues.
     
     
  #13044  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 7:30 PM
Ottawa Champ Ottawa Champ is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post

Hurdman is not perfect, but I don't see major issues with the configuration considering the volume of bus transfers. The lack of shelters and width of the bus platform are bigger issues.
I find it annoying that stops A and B, the two spots closets to the LRT stairs are rarely used. One is reserved for overnight service while the other is for R1 buses. I understand that before this week these stops were being used for buses travelling towards downtown but now that those buses are not operating, the stops should be realigned.
     
     
  #13045  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottawa Champ View Post
I find it annoying that stops A and B, the two spots closets to the LRT stairs are rarely used. One is reserved for overnight service while the other is for R1 buses. I understand that before this week these stops were being used for buses travelling towards downtown but now that those buses are not operating, the stops should be realigned.
I agree. Stops nearest the stations should be used by Rapid and Frequent routes. Connexion routes should be further down the bus platforms. If we can avoid using the platforms furthest from the station entrances, than let's do so.
     
     
  #13046  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I agree. Stops nearest the stations should be used by Rapid and Frequent routes. Connexion routes should be further down the bus platforms. If we can avoid using the platforms furthest from the station entrances, than let's do so.
It isn't that simple. The stops need to be arranged by neighbourhoods. You can't have a regular route at stop A, then the Connexion route serving the same or similar area at stop F
     
     
  #13047  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 8:40 PM
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Equally frustrating at Tunney's. Route 11 makes a more than 1 km detour from Wellington to the station only to stop way on the other side of the loop. I would prefer letting me off at the front on Scott and have me tap back on. I wish they would just put a return loop on the driveway north of Holland past the station for this (or change the triangular island into a roundabout).
     
     
  #13048  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
Equally frustrating at Tunney's. Route 11 makes a more than 1 km detour from Wellington to the station only to stop way on the other side of the loop. I would prefer letting me off at the front on Scott and have me tap back on. I wish they would just put a return loop on the driveway north of Holland past the station for this (or change the triangular island into a roundabout).
After Phase 2 I really hope they remove the 11 jog to Tunney's.
     
     
  #13049  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
Equally frustrating at Tunney's. Route 11 makes a more than 1 km detour from Wellington to the station only to stop way on the other side of the loop. I would prefer letting me off at the front on Scott and have me tap back on. I wish they would just put a return loop on the driveway north of Holland past the station for this (or change the triangular island into a roundabout).
Given the 11 is the main alternate route downtown from Tunney's at the moment if there's no trains running maybe it's necessary for now
     
     
  #13050  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 12:36 AM
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Given the 11 is the main alternate route downtown from Tunney's at the moment if there's no trains running maybe it's necessary for now
I’d be happy if they moved the 11 to Stop C closest to the door
     
     
  #13051  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 12:40 AM
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Meanwhile in Sydney.... Maybe a bit depressing since they are still suffering months into their new metro. I hope we have better luck than they have


https://www.2gb.com/rail-fail-brand-new-sydney-metro-out-of-action-again/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com...in-mechanical-issue-20190820-p52iqh.html
     
     
  #13052  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 1:25 AM
Norman Bates Norman Bates is offline
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
Meanwhile in Sydney.... Maybe a bit depressing since they are still suffering months into their new metro. I hope we have better luck than they have


https://www.2gb.com/rail-fail-brand-new-sydney-metro-out-of-action-again/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com...in-mechanical-issue-20190820-p52iqh.html
Recall as well that Phoenix cratered in Australia before it was bought by Canada.
     
     
  #13053  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 1:44 AM
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Recall as well that Phoenix cratered in Australia before it was bought by Canada.
It doesn't bode well for Montreal's REM considering it will be using the exact same trains. But that's for Montrealers to worry about
     
     
  #13054  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 4:00 AM
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The more automation, the more sophisticated the software and hardware systems, which is all prone to more failures. Think about driverless vehicles of the future.
     
     
  #13055  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 8:57 AM
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The more automation, the more sophisticated the software and hardware systems, which is all prone to more failures. Think about driverless vehicles of the future.
There are lots of driverless metro systems that work fine.
     
     
  #13056  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTrans View Post
When the door with the fault is locked, the train should be able to move to a terminus station so that it is a more convenient location for crews to repair the fault and minimize delays. If there is currently not enough capacity to do this then a pocket track should be constructed to park the train without taking up track space.
Yesterday, as I was riding the train from Tunney's to Bayview, my door refused to open. I don't know if it was locked on purpose or not, but the train continued to Pimisi, where I was able to use another door.
     
     
  #13057  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 11:36 AM
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There are lots of driverless metro systems that work fine.
Of course, but everyone is comparing long running metros where the kinks were long ago solved to our system (and in this case Sydney). It's better a better comparison to understand what teething problems are in other totally new or fully automated systems and how long it took them to solve it.

Ion launched without their automation in place, and so did the Vaughn extension in Toronto. Recent Skytrain extensions are just using what already works for them. The last brand new automation in Canada was Edmonton's metro line, which is still a disaster years later.
     
     
  #13058  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 6:33 PM
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How OC Transpo missed its best chance to get us on board
At the very moment it needed to win fans, the Confederation Line failed spectacularly

Alistair Steele · CBC News
Posted: Oct 12, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 10 hours ago


They say you only get one chance to make a first impression, but really, OC Transpo had two.

The first came on Sept. 14, when the Confederation Line finally — finally — opened its gleaming doors to the public. (More on doors later.)

Thousands filed aboard that pleasant Saturday afternoon. Most had no particular place to go; they just wanted to play some small part in a historic day. From Tunney's Pasture to Blair and back again the bands played, the public art impressed and the train operators waved as they pulled up to the platforms.

Everyone, it seemed, was smiling.

OC Transpo's second chance at a first impression came Monday, when suburban commuters long accustomed to getting to work on trusty old bus routes like the 95 were suddenly forced to transfer onto the LRT to complete their journeys, whether they wanted to or not.

This was where the rubber was to meet the road, the first real test of what one OC Transpo manager dubbed "the biggest service change ever" for the public transit agency and its customers.

Things went OK on day one, but the following morning it all fell apart, and all it took was a single jammed door on a train at uOttawa station.

People crowded platforms up and down the line, waiting for trains that weren't coming, while buses continued to disgorge more passengers behind them. Ironically, it was the buses that saved the day, called back into service to ferry stranded commuters the rest of the way downtown.

If day two went badly, day three was worse. Two jammed doors at two different stations caused another delay, but this time, hundreds of passengers refused to board the backup buses.

At Tunney's Pasture, a steady stream of humanity filed down Scott Street, choosing the 3.5-kilometre walk downtown over OC Transpo. Others hailed a cab or summoned an Uber, whose customers gladly paid a hefty "surge price" that one driver said was the highest he'd ever seen.

Thursday brought another delay, but this time it wasn't a jammed door that ground the system to a halt.

According to a city memo, a train became immobilized at Bayview station when the onboard computer that runs its systems and subsystems failed and couldn't be reset. In other words, the brains of the operation stopped working, and no one really knows why.

That a passenger holding a door open can disable an entire LRT line for an hour or more is baffling. That a vital computer system failed mysteriously is probably worse. If it was your car, which problem would you rather take to the mechanic?

Here's something we do know: the chaos that marred this week's morning commutes has eroded the riding public's trust in the transit system, perhaps irrevocably.

That's happened because at the very moment it needed to win fans, the Confederation Line failed spectacularly. The only thing it proved was its unreliability.

"We just want to get to work," rider Fraser Smith told CBC on Thursday. For the third morning in a row, OC Transpo had failed to get the federal government employee from his home in Nepean to his office near Parliament station.

On Thursday, the bus that was supposed to drop him off at Tunney's Pasture just kept going downtown.

"I paid to use the train today, but I didn't get to use the train today," Smith said. "I know that right down the street I can park my car for 13 bucks a day."

He's not the only one with that idea, either. On Thursday morning, just four days into a transportation sea change that's supposed to transform the way this city moves, downtown streets were crammed with vehicles.

City councillors are taking notice. Coun. Catherine McKenney couldn't help it: from her kitchen window, she could see the throngs streaming down Albert Street on foot.

"People can't wonder if once a week, even once a month, that train's not going to get them into work, into school, back to pick up their kids from daycare," McKenney said.

"People will just continue to get more frustrated, and what I'm most worried about really is a decline in ridership."

She has reason to worry. OC Transpo ridership has been in gradual but steady decline since 2011, but the launch of the Confederation Line was supposed to be the catalyst that reversed that trend.

To say the future of transit in this city relied on things going smoothly this week is no wild overstatement.

"We need transit to work," Stittsville Coun. Glen Gower said Thursday. "When it breaks down, that erodes the trust, and it makes it so much more difficult for us to make some of the tough decisions that we need to around investments in transit and mobility in our city."

He's talking about Stage 2 LRT, and Stage 3 beyond that, projects that are supposed to transform "Autowa" into a thoroughly modern, multi-modal metropolis.

But that transformation demands trust, and this week that trust was broken. University students missed midterm exams. Schoolkids who were proud and excited to take the train by themselves had to call their parents to come pick them up. People with anxiety suffered panic attacks on crowded platforms.

Those of us who were dazzled by the Confederation Line on Sept. 14 are already looking for a way out.

A single photo, by Maclean's journalist Shannon Proudfoot, quickly emerged as an iconic image of this disastrous week. It shows a man, bag in hand, deftly vaulting a chain link fence at Tunney's Pasture station to escape the chaos.

If the city can't find a quick and lasting fix to the problems plaguing the Confederation Line and slowly restore the trust that's been lost this week, many more will jump that fence. OC Transpo's last chance to make a positive impression will have passed us by.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/oc-transpo-failed-earn-trust-1.5318184
     
     
  #13059  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 10:52 PM
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It doesn't bode well for Montreal's REM considering it will be using the exact same trains. But that's for Montrealers to worry about
The REM in Montréal is expected to face far, far worse issues than the Ottawa LRT.


The REM should be running at over 100% of it's capacity on day one. There won't be any way of fixing it, since the SkyTrain technology doesn't allow longer trains. The contract with the Caisse de Dépôt ban any parallel bus service and could last for up to year 2221 if the Caisse de Dépôt wants it. The Caisse is there to make profits, so it makes sense for them to build a severly underbuilt system and then charge sky-high fares. Public transit in huge parts of the Montréal region might become only for the rich.

Considering the way the contract is made, we should also note that the higher the REM ridership will be, the more expensive it's gonna be to taxpayers, since the Caisse will be paid according to ridership.

As much as we love complaining about our transit here in Ottawa, we at least have a half serious plan to build future infrastructure, which isn't the case in Montréal or Toronto.
     
     
  #13060  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhere View Post
The REM in Montréal is expected to face far, far worse issues than the Ottawa LRT.


The REM should be running at over 100% of it's capacity on day one. There won't be any way of fixing it, since the SkyTrain technology doesn't allow longer trains. The contract with the Caisse de Dépôt ban any parallel bus service and could last for up to year 2221 if the Caisse de Dépôt wants it. The Caisse is there to make profits, so it makes sense for them to build a severly underbuilt system and then charge sky-high fares. Public transit in huge parts of the Montréal region might become only for the rich.

Considering the way the contract is made, we should also note that the higher the REM ridership will be, the more expensive it's gonna be to taxpayers, since the Caisse will be paid according to ridership.

As much as we love complaining about our transit here in Ottawa, we at least have a half serious plan to build future infrastructure, which isn't the case in Montréal or Toronto.
I think I'd reserve judgement on that for now.
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