Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Seating configuration is limited with low floor vehicles. Even more so with low floor vehicles as long as ours. The max length of a San Diego Trolley is 27 meters, so they require 3 bogeys, while ours is 48 meters, so 6 bogeys. That's not proportional, we have more per 10 meters.

I'm not sure if we would be able to implement side seating over the bogeys where we currently have the 2+2 face-to-face seating as our bogeys might be wider than San Diegos. If we can make that change, we should for any Stage 2 trains that has not been started.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Has anybody heard any comments about Route 10 being cutback from the Rideau Centre to Lyon Station? A particularly stupid change in my opinion. A centretown bus route requiring use of the Confederation Line.

The rumours are true. This kind of change is monumentally stupid. What was a 10 minute bus ride to the Rideau Centre from Bronson and Carling has now become a 20-minute trip with a transfer. On the way there. Off-peak, who knows as it requires a train to an infrequent bus.

Obviously now I won't use what used to be a convenient bus to the Market. Nor will people working east of Bank. All for the sake of turning the bus 5 blocks early.

The degree of service cuts to people living within a 10-15 minute bus ride of downtown is appalling. Just watch the ridership fall.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Ninox

Hello, long time lurker here, thought I’d chime in.

Even on Monday without the door issue, my train left Tunney’s Pasture pretty much crush loaded with a large number of people left waiting on the platform. Only about two dozen or so people were transferring from the Trillium Line to the Confederation Line, and it seemed like they managed to squeeze on, but there is no way that Bayview can serve as a transfer point for South End commuters to connect downtown without adding more Confederation Line trains.

Transferring to the Trillium Line- of course it was packed to the gills with riders being left on the platform at both Bayview and Carling stations. This was at about 8:05am. It doesn’t help that students tend to leave their backpacks on...

Passengers who were only travelling a couple of stops out from Tunney’s seem very reluctant to move away from the doors. It’s hard to entirely blame them- I was only going one stop and I barely got out in time thanks to the narrow aisles (I had moved well into the train and yes, I had started moving towards the door well before the train approached the platform).

Overall the Confederation Line is a great addition to the city and does represent an improvement to the quality of life in Ottawa, but (as others have said) they really need to get more trains online ASAP.

Cheers!

Welcome to the forum!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Radster

Those aluminum horizontal grab bars hanging from the ceiling look to be quite low actually, so I disagree,

Yes, the grab bars are lower than ours, something we need or the hanging straps.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

The rumours are true. This kind of change is monumentally stupid. What was a 10 minute bus ride to the Rideau Centre from Bronson and Carling has now become a 20-minute trip with a transfer. On the way there. Off-peak, who knows as it requires a train to an infrequent bus.

Obviously now I won't use what used to be a convenient bus to the Market. Nor will people working east of Bank. All for the sake of turning the bus 5 blocks early.

The degree of service cuts to people living within a 10-15 minute bus ride of downtown is appalling. Just watch the ridership fall.

I think this needs to be relayed to OC Transpo. I don't see the logic at all of this sort of inconvenience for centretown residents. I also don't see why we can't have at least one cross-downtown bus route that doesn't require descending and ascending into the subway. For short trips, this is such an inconvenience.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think this needs to be relayed to OC Transpo. I don't see the logic at all of this sort of inconvenience for centretown residents. I also don't see why we can't have at least one cross-downtown bus route that doesn't require descending and ascending into the subway. For short trips, this is such an inconvenience.

Another example would be the 101. Why end it's replacement at Lees rather than Hurdman forcing people on 1 or 2 stop transfers (also would give a reasonable alternative when the train is down)


All transitway and connexion routes made sense to be replaced with the train (at least in the East, maybe more questionable in the West). But why did they decide to force non transitway users to make short hops on the train. Especially considering the depth of our stations.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Agreed. They don't want to add trains at rush because "empty trains" are not efficient!? They are more than 50% empty off peak. Only during the climate strike were thy packed off peak as well (and frequency should be increased in anticipation for such demonstrations). Adding one or two trains at rush would still result in very busy trains. As you say, they can remove off peak trains and place them on peak if cost is there biggest concern.

Considering they decided in the last year to keep double trains on the weekends, even if they are not necessary, tells us something about efficiency, of lack thereof. Contract said singles on the weekend, then stick to it, regardless of coupling problems (Alstom and RTM should be forced to fix that) so that we can get extra service at rush hour.

Money money money 💰
How much money are we spending fixing broken doors every week thanks to crush loading??

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think this needs to be relayed to OC Transpo. I don't see the logic at all of this sort of inconvenience for centretown residents. I also don't see why we can't have at least one cross-downtown bus route that doesn't require descending and ascending into the subway. For short trips, this is such an inconvenience.

Agreed, though I think they are well aware of the issue. It was raised over and over again. It's another issue of seemingly having no accountability to the public.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed, though I think they are well aware of the issue. It was raised over and over again. It's another issue of seemingly having no accountability to the public.

The experts know best. Just like the decision that running 13 trains instead of 15 was well within ridership demand.

The riding public are idiots who receive token acknowledgement of their concerns.

[daud]

This system seems overloaded on day 3. Have they completely botched traffic patterns and flow? how is this system going to support growth in the future?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Money money money 💰
How much money are we spending fixing broken doors every week thanks to crush loading??

Does OC Transpo if the maintenance contract is a fixed price with RTM?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by daud

This system seems overloaded on day 3. Have they completely botched traffic patterns and flow? how is this system going to support growth in the future?

Every indication is that there is ample room all trains, they say. We have not achieved the 600 passenger count according to the stats collected at the fare gates. No trains will be allowed to proceed to downtown until the passenger count reaches 600 during specific hours.

The answer to those trying to exit the trains, we will apply punitive measures.

[zzptichka]

Well shit. It's worse than I thought.
Doesn't look like there is an easy fix if doors are so easily misaligned...

Ken Woods
@drivesincircles
About train doors...

I have spent quite a bit of time driving trains and troubleshooting all kinds of things with the Citadis Spirit.

There's plenty of conjecture about the tech floating around that really should be cleared up.

First off, the doors indeed have sensors. Look down, you will see a beam-break sensor that prevents the door from closing if you're standing in the door. You will hear the door chime, then a buzz indicating that the door is obstructed. After 3 attempts the door goes into fault.


So what happens in fault mode? Your operator checks CCTV, and if no obstruction is seen, then he/she can manually cycle the doors with a button on the dash. If the obstruction is no longer there, then the doors close and we all get moving... fault cleared.


The second way a door gets obstructed is an object physically preventing the door from closing. Could be a foot stopping it, a bag, or a hand. The result is the same. The door makes a buzz, and opens again just like an elevator. Then it tries to close again. If it closes, we move

In those two instances, should the door not be able to close, your operator can physically close the door on site, and lock the door out with a mechanical lock. We call this Isolating the door. The train recognizes the door as isolated, and we are on our way.


The third reason a door is obstructed is misalignment. This is generally what happens when a person grabs the edge of the door and forcefully opens it against the force of the closing motor. It takes some effort to do this, and it is often catastrophic.


Misalignment means the door sensors report that the door has been taken forcefully out of its mechanical track, and it cannot be manually closed or locked until it has been reset onto its track or recalibrated by a technician.


In many instances, the operator cannot close, manually lock, or isolate a misaligned door. The door will not accept the isolate command because the door cannot be closed in such a way that the physical lock engages.


It takes about 5-7 mins to get from a few attempts to isolate to the realization that the door is actually misaligned and cannot be isolated. The misaligned door is now stopping the train from moving until it is either fixed, or the train is evacuated and the doors bypassed.


Bypassing the doors sounds easy, but it is not. Moving a train with an open door means actually bypassing the communications system of the train (CBTC), making it invisible to the signaling system and other trains.


We recognize that trains are packed right now. It only gets worse with delays, and people on trains cannot always get off in the 24 seconds that is allotted at some stations.


We need to change dwell times when it is busy, and we need to get our trains running on better headways to decrease crowding. These changes are on us, and we are going to fix that.


But, if you take anything away from this as a commuter, let it be this:

Break the beam, not the door.

Stopping a door with a hand is a risk, pulling a door open against the motor can be catastrophic, requiring single tracking around a stopped train and big delays.


We all want the same thing, Ottawa.

A painless, efficient commute.

Thanks for reading.

https://twitter.com/drivesincircles/status/1182022438621724672

[OCCheetos]

I wasn't able to board a train at Hurdman this morning at around 7:10-ish.

Looking into the train as it left, there was still a notable amount of unoccupied space especially towards the articulated sections of the cars. The back of the train was also emptier which suggests the loading of the trains is kind of unbalanced right now.

The next train that followed was noticeably less packed, though I'm not sure why.

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A break-up letter to OC Transpo. No, that's not me.

https://twitter.com/JFClaude/status/1181917099289141250

We REALLY want to switch to transit, but if this kind of crap continues on a regular basis, we might just keep driving. The City and OC are failing hard if they can't get two people who are desperate to stop driving in rush-hour traffic to make the switch.

Damn funny but I get what his saying....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The experts know best. Just like the decision that running 13 trains instead of 15 was well within ridership demand.

The riding public are idiots who receive token acknowledgement of their concerns.

Sorry. But this anti-intellectualism is how you end up with Trump and his nonsense. Stop delegitimizing professionals just to pander to public sentiment.

In this case, it's not at all clear how much their advice was taken honestly or manipulated for political purposes. Until you get the actual memos that OC Transpo gave to John Manconi, it's very hard to tell what exactly they told him on ridership and capacity required. Maligning them, as you're doing here, absent real information, is rather unfair.

Also to be noted, it was RTG that got to propose the rolling stock and how many trains are needed. The city just told them the capacity required.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Sorry. But this anti-intellectualism is how you end up with Trump and his nonsense. Stop delegitimizing professionals just to pander to public sentiment.

In this case, it's not at all clear how much their advice was taken honestly or manipulated for political purposes. Until you get the actual memos that OC Transpo gave to John Manconi, it's very hard to tell what exactly they told him on ridership and capacity required. Maligning them, as you're doing here, absent real information, is rather unfair.

Yes, I know sarcasm is forbidden on this board.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Yes, I know sarcasm is forbidden on this board.

I'm not complaining about your sarcasm. I'm calling out your use of sarcasm to assert that expertise is suddenly invalid because of some problems on a train system. This is base anti-intellectualism and anti-professionalism.

If you know how to run OC Transpo better why isn't your resume in for the job? What other transit systems have you run otherwise? Surely in your great wisdom, you've proven transit experts wrong elsewhere right?

[kmcamp]

So riding the train in the afternoon again, and the trains are comfortably full. They really just need the original 15 promised trains in the morning and it would do wonders (17 would be better). The afternoon rush hour is fine with 13. Why oh why OC Transpo did you decide to ruin everything when the solution is so simple (yet I know the answer is because they can't run 15 yet)

[zzptichka]

RE: Door Fault. Wonder if it's possible to manually shut the failed door with physical lock, isolate it(overriding any sensors if needed) and continue operating the train with passengers until it can get to the yard for service.