Vancouver Real Estate 'Bubble' at 30-year Peak

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Oh dear, this is a sad statistic. On the bright side you might be able to score a good deal on a lightly used, early lease return Audi.

Number of realtors in Lower Mainland dropping: study

I'm looking around for my violin to play a funeral dirge. But it's so small that I can't seem to find it.

What a loss. Just think of what else they could have done with the weeks it took them to get a realtors license?

On the upside, as real estate experts, they really should face few obstacles applying their talents in other areas of the real estate sector and garnering comparable remuneration. That may require full time hours, but c'est la vie.

[misher]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I'm looking around for my violin to play a funeral dirge. But it's so small that I can't seem to find it.

What a loss. Just think of what else they could have done with the weeks it took them to get a realtors license?

On the upside, as real estate experts, they really should face few obstacles applying their talents in other areas of the real estate sector and garnering comparable remuneration. That may require full time hours, but c'est la vie.

What was interesting is that there are so many realtors living in Langley. I didn't see any BMWs there.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by misher

What was interesting is that there are so many realtors living in Langley. I didn't see any BMWs there.

The concentration agents in Langley might be due to people moving up the Valley, to find something more affordable than what Vancouver offers,and Langley being in the middle of the Valley, sort of. Maybe business is on an uptick there. Just a guess.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

What was interesting is that there are so many realtors living in Langley. I didn't see any BMWs there.

Many people have licenses but don't actively sell, certainly not enough to earn a living.

[nds88]

Originally Posted by misher

What was interesting is that there are so many realtors living in Langley. I didn't see any BMWs there.

I think this is incorrect. The Township of Langley has about 140,000 people, which would mean 140,000/6 = 23,000 agents. Even if you went by household and assumed 5 people per house, that is 4,600 agents.

Or if it was the City of Langley (which is a small area), there are about 26,000 people, or 26,000/6 = 4,300 agents. Or if you went by household (assuming 5 people per household), that is close to 900 agents. There is no way that close to 10% of all realtors live in City of Langley. There is an error somewhere, or I am making a gross mistake interpreting something.

[SpongeG]

Douglas Todd: Once abhorred, foreign-buyers tax now mainstream in Canada
Opinion: Canada’s three centre-left parties are mirroring B.C. on the foreign-buyers tax, with the Greens’ showing a willingness to look at an outright ban.

DOUGLAS TODD Updated: October 5, 2019

What a difference an election cycle makes. When Canadians last went to the polls in 2015 you would have had to scour the country to find someone willing to talk about a surtax on foreign nationals buying real estate.

Now, such taxes are just considered the right thing to do — by the federal Liberals, NDP and Greens. And B.C. has shown the way.

How did this happen? Ignited by the public’s anger over the housing affordability crisis, the B.C. Liberals in 2016 surprised almost everyone by going against their own free-market ideology and suddenly imposed a 15-per-cent tax on foreign purchasers of housing in Metro Vancouver.

Many were shocked by this affront to economic globalization and investment. Property developers and their lobbyists, plus some activists and a handful of academics, claimed a foreign-buyers tax was xenophobic and even racist.

The foreign-buyers tax took some fuel out of Vancouver’s stratospheric housing prices, however. And polls show that people supported it. The next year, Ontario slapped a foreign-buyers tax on real estate in the Toronto region. And after the B.C. NDP narrowly won office in 2017, it hiked the surtax to 20 per cent and expanded it to Victoria and other cities.

...

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columni...eign-buyers-tax-now-mainstream-in-canada

[whatnext]

Foreign buyers taxes make perfect sense which is why the public supports them. For politicians it's a no-brainer, foreign buyers can't vote so why not get some tax revenue at their expense.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Foreign buyers taxes make perfect sense which is why the public supports them. For politicians it's a no-brainer, foreign buyers can't vote so why not get some tax revenue at their expense.

Totally support the 2nd part of this. Politicians will always seek to blame/oppress small minorities whose votes do not matter or foreigners who can't vote. Nazi Germany is a great example of this as is America's hard on for illegals.

As for the 1st part, I do support a tax of 1-5% because that raises a lot of government revenue while giving locals some advantage. 15-20% is no different than a ban.
Financially speaking the foreign buyers tax should be set at a rate that maximizes tax revenues. When government stops treating taxes as a business you see inefficiency and the 15-20% tax is incredibly inefficient. I would support the 15-20% tax only if we had something balancing it like if the tax was waived for rental investment. Government had a chance to use foreign money to raise tax revenue or improve our rental situation and they did neither.

[GenWhy?]

Waive the extra property transfer tax if you enter a rental housing agreement under title with the Province? Is the issue of property transfer taxes on lots that can support rental buildings to be built or is it on the flipping and increasing of supposed value of SF homes and condos?

Nothing is stopping a Canadian registered and based company from buying land and building rental

[cairnstone]

What is happening now in the larger multifamily projects is they are starting to stall out do to not hitting presales. So a good section of the purpose built low market rental attached to these projects now will not get built. And the grey market rental will not be available.

What means test did government use to determine that foreign owners are the cause of the housing problem. As it would be an impossible task to figure what is empty. I have many friends that call Metro Vancouver home but do to work spend over 50% of there time outside of the city. Myself have left my apartment empty for weeks a t a time as I worked shift work. Am I an one of the many so called empty units.


Yes there was a big foreign influence in single family homes and the price was run up to insane levels. And that was caused by industry taking advantage of the surge in sales.

[misher]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

What is happening now in the larger multifamily projects is they are starting to stall out do to not hitting presales. So a good section of the purpose built low market rental attached to these projects now will not get built. And the grey market rental will not be available.

What means test did government use to determine that foreign owners are the cause of the housing problem. As it would be an impossible task to figure what is empty. I have many friends that call Metro Vancouver home but do to work spend over 50% of there time outside of the city. Myself have left my apartment empty for weeks a t a time as I worked shift work. Am I an one of the many so called empty units.


Yes there was a big foreign influence in single family homes and the price was run up to insane levels. And that was caused by industry taking advantage of the surge in sales.

There was little evidence to identify foreigners as being the problem, mostly they relied on voter sentiment. Yes there is a foreign influence, but this exists in most cities. You have American cities where 50% of sales are foreign with prices much lower than Vancouver where it was generally 3% or less. I suspect most of the blame was actually on immigrants (aka foreigners with citizenship). I still remember talking to one guy who was pissed that when he went outside everyone he saw was asian and used that to justify that foreigners were the problem. If you look at the % of sales that belong to recent immigrants rather than foreigners I'm assuming you will see a very high number.

Remember that the high of the market was in 2017-2018 after the 2016 FBT and foreign sales tanked to ~1%.

Canadians are the 8th richest people in the world with an average wealth of $288k USD per person and a median of $106k, in comparison Americans are 21st with a median of $61k but an average of $404k. The gap between rich and poor here is much closer which also means that people are much more easily able to afford homes and thus there is more competition for middle class housing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

Btw the median wealth in Ukraine is $40...holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Canadians have a LOT of money although we usually don't show it off so its not obvious. Look at our investment into America and worldwide, we by far exceed China. Canadians have a lot of money that they invest. We're not all poor renters who can't compete with foreign money. The average net worth in West Van is 4.45 mil, in Greater Van its 1.78 mil, in Langley its 1.4 mil, in Richmond its 1.27 mil




https://www.macleans.ca/economy/money-economy/canadas-richest-communities-2019/

[cairnstone]

Yup people want to live here and that drives up the price

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Waive the extra property transfer tax if you enter a rental housing agreement under title with the Province? Is the issue of property transfer taxes on lots that can support rental buildings to be built or is it on the flipping and increasing of supposed value of SF homes and condos?

Nothing is stopping a Canadian registered and based company from buying land and building rental

I'm assuming you mean foreign-owned companies that are registered here? If so, absolutely we should be encouraging them to build guaranteed rental. Rather than offering programs for buyers to indebt themselves, the government should be more active in encouraging anyone to build rental, through tax breaks or what have you.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'm assuming you mean foreign-owned companies that are registered here? If so, absolutely we should be encouraging them to build guaranteed rental. Rather than offering programs for buyers to indebt themselves, the government should be more active in encouraging anyone to build rental, through tax breaks or what have you.

Its scary ~shivers~ when we agree on things and probably means its a really good idea

Just like you convert energy to the form you need, foreign investment should be harnessed and converted to needs we need fulfilled rather than outright rejected.

[SpongeG]

you need a subscription to read this so if you do...

Seattle looks to woo spurned Vancouver investors

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...oks-to-woo-spurned-vancouver-investors/#

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'm assuming you mean foreign-owned companies that are registered here? If so, absolutely we should be encouraging them to build guaranteed rental. Rather than offering programs for buyers to indebt themselves, the government should be more active in encouraging anyone to build rental, through tax breaks or what have you.

Would that be the Provincial government subsidizing rental construction through tax breaks to companies to build multi-family, beyond the current provided by some Lower Mainland Cities?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

you need a subscription to read this so if you do...

Seattle looks to woo spurned Vancouver investors

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...oks-to-woo-spurned-vancouver-investors/#

It's also here (stupid subscription only thing... )

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Would that be the Provincial government subsidizing rental construction through tax breaks to companies to build multi-family, beyond the current provided by some Lower Mainland Cities?

Provincial and Federal. I'm really surprised that during this federal election nobody has campaigned on bringing back MURBs which caused so much rental stock to be built in the 1970's.

[GenWhy?]

That program in particular was kind of seen as a tax and investment shelter. There was definitely a lot of obvious loopholes. I know where and why these breaks were eliminated in the 1972 tax reforms but not of why they were created and how (political and economical).

Would be interesting to examine in the context of this thread.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

I have a friend that lives in a co op and owns an apartment that he never discloses. SO many scams

Co-ops aren't necessarily tied to income. Many stipulate a minimum salary required and have an internal mandate to have a certain number of units.

Many co-ops are more of an alternative shared ownership model than subsidized cheap rentals.