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  #141  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 3:31 PM
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The population would not benefit from condos there instead of a baseball park. I understand that a condo project would bring some excitement to this forum during the construction stage but ultimately tearing down the stadium will result in a loss of a municipal infrastructure I consider essential for a city the size of Ottawa. I would give the stadium another chance with a new potential ownership.
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  #142  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 5:19 PM
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Wouldn’t that be the case for almost any public facility? Condo towers would be more lucrative than the money trap NAC - let’s rip it down!
I wouldn't equate a failing minor league baseball stadium in a market that has time and again failed to support a team to the National Arts Centre of a country of nearly 40 million people. That's ridiculous. I also didn't say anything about Condos. This would be a great location for a variety of important projects, public and private.
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  #143  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2019, 5:10 AM
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Last edited by phil235; Sep 29, 2019 at 7:47 PM. Reason: Duplicate
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  #144  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2019, 5:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
I wouldn't equate a failing minor league baseball stadium in a market that has time and again failed to support a team to the National Arts Centre of a country of nearly 40 million people. That's ridiculous. I also didn't say anything about Condos. This would be a great location for a variety of important projects, public and private.
You’re kind of missing my point. If you are using solely financial criteria to declare this a “failing” facility, then almost no public facility could meet that test - libraries, arenas, pools. This is a facility that sees something in the order of 100,000 people using it every year - fans, minor baseball teams etc. That has to be part of the consideration. At very least, the first option should be looking at development options that add to the site, rather than replacing it. Particularly given the fact that it finally has a proper transit link to give it a chance of success.

I’m curious - can you give an example of an important project that you see going on that site? I find a lot of these arguments to be very abstract. In my opinion, we shouldn’t compare the stadium against some conceptual ideal use that may never come to fruition. I’ve yet to hear of any actual plan for something that would go there (other than some kind of yet-to-be funded mixed use residential project that would include social housing and frankly could be built on any number of locations along the Confederation line.). Is there something specific that you see as having a higher value in that particular location?
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  #145  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2019, 7:17 AM
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I think the city needs a more consistent policy for when it supports sports teams/facilities. The CFL got a massive investment, but other leagues seem to be told to FOAD. To me the priority here should be to get the AA team for the Jays, not these little independent leagues.
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  #146  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2019, 1:32 PM
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I think the city needs a more consistent policy for when it supports sports teams/facilities. The CFL got a massive investment, but other leagues seem to be told to FOAD. To me the priority here should be to get the AA team for the Jays, not these little independent leagues.
They did have a chance to bring AA here, but opted for the smaller investment. We'll see if that chance comes around again.

I really liked the idea that was floated of having the national team based out of the stadium (as a second tenant), but that didn't seem to get very far, I think because of a lack of financial support also.
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  #147  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2019, 1:50 PM
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They did have a chance to bring AA here, but opted for the smaller investment. We'll see if that chance comes around again.

I really liked the idea that was floated of having the national team based out of the stadium (as a second tenant), but that didn't seem to get very far, I think because of a lack of financial support also.
Don't national teams get assembled for specific tournaments?
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  #148  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2019, 5:56 PM
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Don't national teams get assembled for specific tournaments?
Yeah, they do, but there is permanent infrastructure behind them. I think the idea was that the team administration would be based here, and they would hold camps and exhibition games here. It would have been sort of the same as Hockey Canada's base in Calgary. I thought it might work well as a secondary tenant in the stadium.
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  #149  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 1:09 AM
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Champions baseball team sold to Ottawa trio, but future remains in the air

Norman Provencher, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 16, 2019


A trio of Ottawa investors has purchased the Ottawa Champions baseball team and says they are hopeful the team will return to the field next summer.

But the club’s return still depends on negotiating a new stadium lease with the city.

“We have secured an agreement with Miles Wolff for the Ottawa Champions (and) we look forward to meeting with the city to negotiate a new lease” for the Ottawa stadium on Coventry Road, said Ray Abboud.

Abboud said he and his partners Rob Lavoie and Fred Saghbini remain hopeful of being able to field a team in 2020, although he would not say who their opposition would be. Abboud is a financial planner, Lavoie runs local Play It Again Sports stores and Saghbini is in project management.

“All I can say is the fans will be pleased,” said Abboud.

Champions founder and long-time owner Miles Wolff confirmed the sale but stressed “it might not be worth anything until they have a new lease.”

Neither side would discuss the terms of the sale.

But Sam Katz, part of a group that has teamed with Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group to make their own bid for the right to play at the stadium, says his group’s negotiations are continuing.

“What I can say is that the city has prepared some rigorous criteria on who they’re going to give the lease to, (and) we’re continuing to prepare that information,” said Katz in a telephone interview from Winnipeg.

Katz said the group has had communications with the city as well as email exchanges and remains committed to a bid.

He reiterated his group’s plan to mould a team that provides a total fan experience at the ballpark.

“I think we’ve established that we understand what it takes to market this kind of product,” said Katz, longtime owner of the Winnipeg Goldeyes, of the independent American Association of baseball. The Goldeyes club isn’t a part of the partnership between OSEG.

The news came shortly after the Frontier and Can-Am leagues announced a merger Wednesday that excluded the Ottawa Champions.

At the news conference, the new 14-team Frontier League (which will include five teams from the Can-Am league) expressed optimism that the Champions could be admitted to an expanded 20-team Frontier League for the 2021 season.

“Ottawa was in the conversation (about a merger),” Frontier League commissioner Bill Lee told a news conference Wednesday.

“But the fact was they had no valid (stadium) lease.”

The Champions still owe the city about $463,000 and city manager Steve Kanellakos thinks the best way forward is to see what happens with the two groups vying for the baseball club.

Some councillors questioned the viability of baseball in Ottawa and others wanted the city to begin a larger study on community uses for the facility.

Mayor Jim Watson wants to maintain the facility as a baseball stadium.

City management predicted that the next stadium lease would be better for the main tenant compared to what the Champions inked.

“The lease that the Champions signed was stacked against them,” city treasurer Marian Simulik said.

-With files from Jon Willing

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ttawa-trio-but-future-remains-in-the-air
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  #150  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 1:53 AM
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You’re kind of missing my point. If you are using solely financial criteria to declare this a “failing” facility, then almost no public facility could meet that test - libraries, arenas, pools. This is a facility that sees something in the order of 100,000 people using it every year - fans, minor baseball teams etc. That has to be part of the consideration. At very least, the first option should be looking at development options that add to the site, rather than replacing it. Particularly given the fact that it finally has a proper transit link to give it a chance of success.

I’m curious - can you give an example of an important project that you see going on that site? I find a lot of these arguments to be very abstract. In my opinion, we shouldn’t compare the stadium against some conceptual ideal use that may never come to fruition. I’ve yet to hear of any actual plan for something that would go there (other than some kind of yet-to-be funded mixed use residential project that would include social housing and frankly could be built on any number of locations along the Confederation line.). Is there something specific that you see as having a higher value in that particular location?
Yeah pretty much anything other than a failing city owned stadium. Municipalities have mostly gotten out of the sole-ownership stadium business all over North America and in all sports. It's a money pit and it only benefits a microscopic portion of the city's residents. This would be a great spot for any number of private or public developments.
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  #151  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 6:08 AM
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I don't necessarily disagree, but "money pit that only benefits a small number of people" describes a whole bunch of city facilities. There needs to be some sort of policy here.
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  #152  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 5:29 PM
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Yeah pretty much anything other than a failing city owned stadium. Municipalities have mostly gotten out of the sole-ownership stadium business all over North America and in all sports. It's a money pit and it only benefits a microscopic portion of the city's residents. This would be a great spot for any number of private or public developments.
Why do you say that municipalities have gotten out of the stadium ownership business? There are tonnes of examples in Ontario alone - definitely the majority of OHL arenas, every minor baseball stadium that I can think of. Those types of facilities are almost never viable for a private entity.

I don't agree that anything would be better on that site than a stadium. The current stadium is used by well north of 100,000 people a year, including lots of minor baseball players. That's hardly a "microscopic" number of people.

And I still haven't heard a single concrete proposal that is more in the public interest than the stadium. A private condo development there has minimal public benefit, particularly given that there are lots of sites in the east end that are just as good, if not better. And I'm still not sure what public developments are better - feel free to name one.
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  #153  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2019, 1:27 PM
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  #154  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 1:35 PM
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So Miles came to an agreement with the group of three young entrepreneurs to sell the existing baseball team, so the City and OSEG deiced to go behind everyone's back and look for a brand new expansion team? That's shady as hell. Unsurprising. But shady as hell.

From the onset, the City's deal with OSEG for Lansdowne seemed a little off. Whether or not you supported that development, you should be able to agree with this on some level. Then you had the casino bid, which was supposed to be open to any one interested until the City decided it had to go to RCR. Those first two happened to screw over Melnyk. Something similar happened with LeBreton, where the Mayor said the City isn't in the business of building sports stadiums (which it is). Melnyk gets the most of the blame for the collapse of LeBreton, but the Mayor had a part. Should OSEG by the Sens somehow, expect Watson change his views on that pretty quickly.

A few weeks ago, the City was ready to sign over Lansdowne's full operations to OSEG with no public consultation. The Mayor saved face with the last minute motion after significant community backlash, using a suburban Councillor as mediator.
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  #155  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2019, 2:09 AM
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With OSEG involved, is the Ottawa baseball stadium ripe for a mini-Lansdowne transformation?
Company behind RedBlacks and 67's would have foot in the door if the city wants to swing for the fences on a ballpark redevelopment

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: December 2, 2019




The site of an Ottawa sports stadium is ripe for redevelopment as a group of local businessmen is poised to join a partnership to put a pro team back on the field.

It sounds like 2009 and the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park all over again.

But in 2019, it’s in the context of baseball and the future of the municipal ballpark on Coventry Road.

There’s a common element forming between the two sites: the involvement of the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group.

On Tuesday, city council’s finance and economic development committee will be asked to endorse a staff-recommended plan to negotiate a new baseball stadium lease with the owner of the Winnipeg Goldeyes baseball club and OSEG. There would be a new baseball team created in Ottawa with the intention of playing in an independent league starting in 2021.

So far, there’s no indication that the prospective leaseholder for the stadium has any intention of pursuing a redevelopment of the taxpayer-owned property.

Sam Katz, the owner of the Winnipeg baseball franchise, said his sole focus is on finalizing a lease with the City of Ottawa and fielding a successful baseball team that will draw families to the 10,000-seat stadium.

As for the prospects of making a bigger play for the Ottawa stadium land, “that’s not something we have any focus on at this particular time whatsoever,” Katz said Monday.

However, if Katz did have a long-term goal of using more of the stadium property for something other than a surface parking lot, he’s probably wise to team up with OSEG, which, with the City of Ottawa, literally redeveloped a surface parking lot.

Is the Ottawa stadium a prime candidate for a mini-Lansdowne Live?

There are obvious parallels between the baseball stadium and Lansdowne Park.

Both have been sites anchored by municipal sports infrastructure designed for professional athletes. The lands next to the stadiums have cried out for overhauls. The sites have been blanketed in concrete. They have been underused civic attractions.

Like with Lansdowne more than a decade ago, the city has been spitballing ways to make better use of the Ottawa stadium property. Rather than going all-in and completely reimagining what could be done with the land, the city has been stitching together leases for the ballpark, hoping that pro or semi-pro baseball catches fire, securing a long-term baseball tenant.

Everyone at city hall knows, however, that the stadium site, with or without the stadium, is an obvious candidate for redevelopment since a footbridge connects the property with the Tremblay LRT station on the other side of the Queensway. In fact, the city already has eyes on the land for affordable housing.

It’s just a question of when the city wants to swing for the fences on a major redevelopment.

Now, it seems, is not the time.

So, the city will sign up another baseball leaseholder with hopes that the stadium — whose full potential as an LRT-connected sports facility hasn’t been tested yet — will return the site to the glory days of the Ottawa Lynx.

While there are a couple of independent leagues that would be viable for a new Ottawa franchise, Katz said the most obvious would be the newly merged Frontier League.

As for the prospects of one day pursuing a Major League Baseball-affiliated minor-league team for Ottawa, Katz said the possibility is always there, but for now the game plan involves independent ball.

There has been hope at city hall that Ottawa could get an MLB-affiliated team again, especially if Montreal brings back major-league baseball.

In fact, it might be one of the things holding the city back from taking on a stadium redevelopment project. Nailing down a high-quality professional baseball tenant could lead to a larger discussion about site redevelopment — just like it did for Lansdowne when the OSEG partners secured a CFL franchise.

When the time comes to think seriously about building at the stadium property, the city will need to consider how it will invite the development industry into the conversation.

On that, OSEG, whose partners are real-estate moguls with strong connections to city hall, would have a leg up. Additionally, if a lease is finalized, OSEG would have the advantage of gaining first-hand knowledge about the stadium’s condition and operating potential.

The city is happy with its business partnership with OSEG at Lansdowne Park, even if the latest financial forecasts are a bit gloomy, with no money projected to be delivered to the city through the 30-year revenue-sharing scheme.

OSEG characterizes itself as playing a supporting role in the Katz/OSEG baseball partnership. OSEG might do some cross-promotions with other sports teams and handle the game ticketing, but the company’s plan, for now, isn’t to have a major public presence when it comes to the baseball stadium.

Perhaps OSEG doesn’t have any big aspirations beyond Lansdowne Park.

But if the plan to negotiate a new stadium lease clears council on Dec. 11, OSEG will have its foot in the door at another Ottawa sports property begging for radical change.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ripe-for-a-mini-lansdowne-transformation
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  #156  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2019, 3:24 AM
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"since a footbridge connects the property with the Tremblay LRT station on the other side of the Queensway."
I wish the footbridge would actually reach the Tremblay LRT station or the VIA Train Station, instead of falling quite short.
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  #157  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2019, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by eltodesukane View Post
"since a footbridge connects the property with the Tremblay LRT station on the other side of the Queensway."
I wish the footbridge would actually reach the Tremblay LRT station or the VIA Train Station, instead of falling quite short.
It's just over 100m away. How much closer does it have to be?
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  #158  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2019, 2:32 PM
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"since a footbridge connects the property with the Tremblay LRT station on the other side of the Queensway."
I wish the footbridge would actually reach the Tremblay LRT station or the VIA Train Station, instead of falling quite short.
It is actually better now that they place the LRT station in a different spot than the old transitway station. You no longer have to walk all the way around that ring road.
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  #159  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2019, 3:25 PM
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I believe the O-Train Station was well placed considering what they had to work with. It's roughly halfway between VIA Rail and the Max Keeping Bridge. It wouldn't have been worth building a huge, elaborate station with indoor connections to both considering the low volume of passengers using it. If we had that extra money, I can think of a thousand better ways to spend it.

Although I'm extremely frustrated with the way certain politicians, and by extension the City, refuses to work with anyone that is not a campaign donor, I can't oppose the idea of a Lansdowne treatment for this site.
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  #160  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2019, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I believe the O-Train Station was well placed considering what they had to work with. It's roughly halfway between VIA Rail and the Max Keeping Bridge. It wouldn't have been worth building a huge, elaborate station with indoor connections to both considering the low volume of passengers using it. If we had that extra money, I can think of a thousand better ways to spend it.

Although I'm extremely frustrated with the way certain politicians, and by extension the City, refuses to work with anyone that is not a campaign donor, I can't oppose the idea of a Lansdowne treatment for this site.
You mean the Mayor?
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