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View Poll Results: Based on options for Broadway Corridor Study, what is your preferred choice?
BRT: Commercial to UBC 25 6.16%
LRT A: Commercial to UBC OR Commercial via VCC to UBC 31 7.64%
LRT B: Main St. to UBC AND Commercial to UBC 18 4.43%
RRT: Commercial to UBC OR VCC to UBC 283 69.70%
COMBO: RRT to Arbutus/LRT to Main St via Arbutus 39 9.61%
BUS: Enhanced Bus Service for all buses to UBC 10 2.46%
Voters: 406. You may not vote on this poll

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  #10181  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Richmond
I highly doubt that even a 2/3 split would solve the capacity problem in the long run.

Lemme explain further: Singapore's solution for the airport is to have a branch line that's technically part of the main line and uses the same depot, but operates independently from a middle platform. So one or two trains can run between Bridgeport and YVR, but the rest (48/50... 96 percent?) run straight to Richmond.

Alternatively, budget willing, there could be a separate line with Hyundai rolling stock that takes over one branch entirely. Either way, Bridgeport's eventually going to need a remodeling.
I know how the Tanah Merah change works, I used to live in Sinagpore. Problem is that YVR paid for a portion of the line and entered into a service agreement, so you can't change that now and give them a lesser service, unless you want to refund their contribution.

The problem isn't nearly as big as you think it is. Translink actually releases the stats on this and as it stood in in 2018 loads were:

36,500
16,500

It's also worth noting the YVR traffic is growing significantly faster than Richmond. Growth rates are as follows

2018
Richmond 3.7%
YVR 10.7%

2017
Richmond 0.6%
YVR - 4.9%

Couple that with the fact that Richmond's higher numbers are all commute based so the crush in the morning and evening accounts for much of the traffic disparity and a train in the middle of the day going to YVR is often just as full or more so than a train going to Richmond.
     
     
  #10182  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
I know how the Tanah Merah change works, I used to live in Sinagpore. Problem is that YVR paid for a portion of the line and entered into a service agreement, so you can't change that now and give them a lesser service, unless you want to refund their contribution.
Assuming 2-3 minute frequency is retained, would it really be a lesser service? Can't be worse than waiting eight to twelve minutes for a train at night, which is what I really don't like about the branching.
     
     
  #10183  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
^ Ninja'ed.

Good to know that there'll be a smooth transfer from line to line, but we're still talking about a major interchange here - it's going to need a second entrance eventually.
Will it though? The reason why so many people enter and exit there is because they're transferring between the B-Line and the Canada Line. Those transfers will happen underground in the future. There won't be nearly as many people entering and exiting that station as there are now.
     
     
  #10184  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 9:30 PM
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Will it though? The reason why so many people enter and exit there is because they're transferring between the B-Line and the Canada Line. Those transfers will happen underground in the future. There won't be nearly as many people entering and exiting that station as there are now.
With current levels of development, we'll definitely see a drop in foot traffic. But as per the lessons we learned from building the station the first time, it would be good to plan for a future where the City Hall area is a transit hub mostly consisting of midrises.
     
     
  #10185  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 9:40 PM
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so when can expect to see those buildings on the site next to city hall - broadway go down?

I think one of them is a halloween store right now.
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  #10186  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Assuming 2-3 minute frequency is retained, would it really be a lesser service? Can't be worse than waiting eight to twelve minutes for a train at night, which is what I really don't like about the branching.
Well it's not a one seat ride downtown so I'm sure the airport would balk.

I think (anecdotal) the airport probably has a more smooth use graph through the day and would see more frequency in the night periods compared to Richmond, since the airport is still quite busy around that time of day but commuters are all home after 7ish.
     
     
  #10187  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 9:58 PM
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Fair enough. That said, the airport is also stuck with long off-peak waits - learned that the hard way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
I think one of them is a halloween store right now.
Pretty sure the Halloween store had a closing sale a while ago.
     
     
  #10188  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Fair enough. That said, the airport is also stuck with long off-peak waits - learned that the hard way.



Pretty sure the Halloween store had a closing sale a while ago.
No the fruit/veggie market that was right near the station closed a few months back and that space is a temp halloween store, open now.

edit: You must be thinking of the one near Main St. that was demolished in preparation for the new office building there.
     
     
  #10189  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
I understand when transit planners sell or propose projects like this to city and government officials by low-balling their projections and exceptions, in the hopes of keeping costs low -- with the reasoning being that if they ask for what is perceived as "too much" ....now and they get it, and then can't show "enough" results for what they get, or worse are seen to have been wasteful with what they got, then the next time they go to ask for money when they really need it, they likely won't get any or as much as they really need.
I get that part of (what likely happened here), and in all likelihood which also explains a large part of why Vancouverites and tax-payers were unwilling to give them more money during the plebiscite a few years back. Because they (Translink) had already earned the reputation of being wasteful with money in the public eye. (rumours of $400-500K Translink CEO and Executives salaries, and $100K Translink Security officials take-home pay will tend to do that to you)


But in this case, aside from the explanation that they did not seem to have been aware of how quickly the city was growing being rather implausible and highly questionable to me, this is one situation where you only stand to hurt yourself in the long run and in the future by low-balling figures and costs now, building below expected and projected capacity, and then going back to ask for more in the future when it inevitably turns out that you didn't do a proper job to begin with, and now need to finish the job at an even greater cost.
Pretty much. It's an exercise in CYA. If the planner estimates future capacity requirements and they're wrong, up or down, they're going to get blamed for it. If they show data of existing usage as collected over the previous years and spec the project to that, they deflect the decision and the blame.

"I designed the system to meet capacity needs as supported by the data. You aren't honestly suggesting that I was supposed to accurately predict the future?"

It's a great cop out that works across industries. Keep your head down and keep your job.

Regarding total system efficiency, pulling more riders on to the train by running it all the way to UBC means bigger crowds on that transit line on day one and continuing. More train sets required, other costs, etc. And bigger delays for the riders headed further east on the Millennium Line. The marginal improvement for riders shifting to the train from other routes is outweighed by the costs and delays introduced for other riders who don't have a better performing option. The general concept is portrayed in the movie "Good Will Hunting" where we collaboration outperforms competition in some cases. (Sorry I can't be bothered to find a real reference right now.) Since we can't rely on individuals to elect for societal needs over their own, we attempt to design infrastructure to support societal interests.

Of course, the factors in that equation have shifted with population growth and shifting mode share.
     
     
  #10190  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Nice, thanks!

So it sounds like the M-Line station will have a mezzanine (concourse) level with:
- direct access to both northbound and southbound Canada Line platforms from the mezzanine, as well as
- separate access up to ground level (Canada Line mezzanine) without having to negotiate crowds on the Canada Line platforms.

The access to the southbound Canada Line platform means that the Crossroads entrance would be feasible (it's on the southbound platform side) - so why not use it!
Clearly the mantra in planning is "never let yourself be accused of overbuilding". At least the design seems to allow easy addition of a future entrance once needed, so were not stuck with this mess for evermore.
     
     
  #10191  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2019, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
No the fruit/veggie market that was right near the station closed a few months back and that space is a temp halloween store, open now.

edit: You must be thinking of the one near Main St. that was demolished in preparation for the new office building there.
It's Spirit Halloween (they're the big halloween store). My friend went there and asked why they weren't anywhere near Metrotown and was told it was because they couldn't find a space. They only got this location due to it getting demolished soon.
     
     
  #10192  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 3:05 AM
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If the City Hall campus turns into a multi-use development then it makes sense to have a secondary entrance exit into there.

They aren't going to allow much development around Commercial so I personally think it will probably feel overbuilt but there's still going to be transferring between the Expo and Millennium Line.
     
     
  #10193  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Well it's not a one seat ride downtown so I'm sure the airport would balk.

I think (anecdotal) the airport probably has a more smooth use graph through the day and would see more frequency in the night periods compared to Richmond, since the airport is still quite busy around that time of day but commuters are all home after 7ish.
I take canada line to work every day and trains to Richmond are still pretty packed between 7pm and 8pm. The biggest problem is that this is when service is reduced by almost 100%, so you forced to wait twice as long. They need to extend peak hour service to 9pm or increase off peak service to 5/10min.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyburger
They aren't going to allow much development around Commercial so I personally think it will probably feel overbuilt but there's still going to be transferring between the Expo and Millennium Line.
It's always better to overbuild something than underbuild because you are building for the future, not now. Did we learn nothing from the Canada Line??
     
     
  #10194  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:27 AM
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Any plans of underground malls in-between Canada line and Millennium line station at Broadway City-hall?
     
     
  #10195  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
Any plans of underground malls in-between Canada line and Millennium line station at Broadway City-hall?
Yes, five Jugo Juices.
     
     
  #10196  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:36 AM
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Here's my guess at the configuration based on the Daily Hive article.

I'm guessing that the direct routes to the Canada Line platforms will not have elevators,
so handicapped passengers would be forced to use the main passage to go to the Canada Line mezzanine, then down again to the Canada Line platforms.


Last edited by officedweller; Sep 21, 2019 at 5:04 AM.
     
     
  #10197  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:37 AM
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Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
Any plans of underground malls in-between Canada line and Millennium line station at Broadway City-hall?
It might be nice if it could be hooked up to City Square.
     
     
  #10198  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:45 AM
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So the M-Line will hit Cambie at a significant depth. Will it rise as it goes towards the VGH station or will that be another deep one?
     
     
  #10199  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 4:59 AM
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I think it will be widened to face Broadway and additional gates into the Civic Campus development.

It sounds like even the direct access route from the platforms will have elevators.

I guess it would be impossible to temporarily take the elevators offline and have them go further down to the M-Line level?
     
     
  #10200  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 5:00 AM
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Presumably it would rise to reduce excavation costs for Fairview-VGH station.

It would be good redundancy if the direct connections have elevators too.
     
     
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