Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Your opinion is no more based on fact than mine. At least I ask questions about impacts. How many people use Rapibus to reach downtown Ottawa today or in 10 years, 20 years? What is the impact of transferring those people onto the C-Line? Who is going to pay for the extra trains needed to service those people?
.

My guess for the highlighted is in the 15-20,000 range per day right now.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My guess for the highlighted is in the 15-20,000 range per day right now.

If that is correct, and the C-Line is handling maybe 200,000 passengers a day or 100,000 passengers from each direction, then the number of trains coming from the west would have to be increased by 15 to 20%. With 13 trains presently operating, we would need to add 2 to 3 trains to handle the extra passengers because that extra capacity is needed in the busiest section between Bayview and downtown.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My guess for the highlighted is in the 15-20,000 range per day right now.

Maybe for all buses crossing into Ottawa. I don't buy that for just the Rapibus. The core Rapibus routes that cross into Ottawa, aren't even all that frequent.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Maybe for all buses crossing into Ottawa. I don't buy that for just the Rapibus. .

It's not just Rapibus, you're right. But it's a significant chunk and even so, under the scheme being proposed here most of the STO buses going to Ottawa would be eliminated and the passengers re-routed via Bayview, which is the source of capacity concerns being expressed on here.

Certainly if we took all of the routes from the western parts of Gatineau (Aylmer, Plateau, Val-Tétreau) plus all of the Rapibus routes too, that's most of STO's cross-river ridership right there. You'd only have a few routes from the most central part of Hull still coming across the river into Ottawa CBD.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The core Rapibus routes that cross into Ottawa, aren't even all that frequent.

They are STO's most frequent routes by a longshot. The Rapibus 200 in peak periods runs every 5 minutes from 5 am to 9 am, and from 3 pm to just before 6 pm.

The 400 which is the off-peak daytime route runs every 10 minutes.

The only other route that is as frequent is the 59 which is the trunk route from Aylmer which also runs every 5 minutes in peak periods. It runs every 15 minutes midday.

The other routes that go into Ottawa (generally from central Hull) run at 10-15 minute frequencies in peak periods and every 15-30 daytime off-peak.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't see how this would be a worthwhile improvement over what is there now, and even less over what it will be when the STO takes its routes off Wellington-Rideau and puts them on the freer-flowing (we hope) Albert-Slater corridor.

I do, which is probably just a function of YMMV.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I do, which is probably just a function of YMMV.

We've done the calculation before here based on distances and estimated travel speeds, transfers, etc.

At the very best it's a wash, so definitely not worth making it a regional transit priority.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The one that would cry bloody murder if you tried to graft transit back onto what would have become by that future point a Holy and Sacred "Bike" Bridge.

I'm sure they'll rally their unicorns, flying pigs, and dragons and cast a spell provoking a never-ending winter to prevent a train from every going over that bridge again, right?

[lrt's friend]

Others have said it, that the POW bridge is not the best location for interprovincial rapid transit. It might work to connect the Trillium Line to downtown Hull but that is far from our top priority and focuses almost entirely on commuters in a single direction.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Others have said it, that the POW bridge is not the best location for interprovincial rapid transit. It might work to connect the Trillium Line to downtown Hull but that is far from our top priority and focuses almost entirely on commuters in a single direction.

Commuters in two directions actually.

[jchilds72]

Too bad there isn't an acceptable/practical way to loop the Trillium line across the PoW Bridge through Gatineau and back over to end at Rideau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jchilds72

Too bad there isn't an acceptable/practical way to loop the Trillium line across the PoW Bridge through Gatineau and back over to end at Rideau.

That is sorta what is being proposed, with an initial main line from western Gatineau (Aylmer/Plateau) running into Vieux-Hull (Terrasses/Portage) and then across the river to Rideau. Eventually a spur southwards to Bayview and the Trillium line across the PoW would come off this line too.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by jchilds72

Too bad there isn't an acceptable/practical way to loop the Trillium line across the PoW Bridge through Gatineau and back over to end at Rideau.

It will never happen with those huge trains. Only the centre crossing on the interprovincial bridge formerly used by CPR trains would likely be able to handle the weight.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That is sorta what is being proposed, with an initial main line from western Gatineau (Aylmer/Plateau) running into Vieux-Hull (Terrasses/Portage) and then across the river to Rideau. Eventually a spur southwards to Bayview and the Trillium line across the PoW would come off this line too.

Much more possible with true light rail trains than the FLIRTs to be used on the Trillium Line.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's not just Rapibus, you're right. But it's a significant chunk and even so, under the scheme being proposed here most of the STO buses going to Ottawa would be eliminated and the passengers re-routed via Bayview, which is the source of capacity concerns being expressed on here.

Certainly if we took all of the routes from the western parts of Gatineau (Aylmer, Plateau, Val-Tétreau) plus all of the Rapibus routes too, that's most of STO's cross-river ridership right there. You'd only have a few routes from the most central part of Hull still coming across the river into Ottawa CBD.

This speaks to network design.

Most of the buses would not be replaced with a transfer at Bayview, because most of the buses would be replaced with LRT in Gatineau which would be connecting at Rideau. Only a few Rapibus routes would be connecting at Bayview.

Let's say you live in Aylmer and work in the CBD or Centretown, you will have the choice of a double transfer via Bayview or accept some backtracking and do a single transfer at Rideau. I would bet this is what most folks would pick.

So who would transfer at Bayview:
- Gatinois living in the northeast of Gatineau and using the Rapibus to get to Ottawa.
- Gatinois who work near Bayview or west of the station.
- Ottawans heading for a workplace near the Rapibus corridor.
- Ottawa residents from the west and south heading for work at Portage.

Also, while the numbers can sound big, 10 -15 000 per day is not that huge. That would put peak hour ridership into the core across all STO routes at closer to 3000 and only a portion of that would be transfering at Bayview, and a portion of that (albeit majority) in the peak direction. It's easily possible to get no more than an 1000 STO Rapibus riders transfering at Bayview at peak hour, in the peak direction. Probably less.

Again, all contingent on building out LRT and connecting at Rideau. Not, that I am not advocating for Bayview to be the sole connection for STO. A regional network needs more than a single connection point across a river.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You think rapid transit over the PoW via Bayview would eliminate the need for STO buses in downtown Ottawa?

How is that possible?

Currently Portage to Parliament Hill takes about 5 minutes (almost always less than 10, unless there is an incident). Boarding Line 1 to Bayview, then boarding Line 2 at Bayview towards Hull is going to top that?

Yep. I live in the east end & work in Hull. I took transit this morning instead of the usual bike ride. Got off Line 1 at Lyon, walked to Wellington and grabbed the first STO bus going towards Place du portage. 5 minutes.

The PoW bridge could be of use to those coming from the west end but not for people like me coming from the east end. It would just add time to the commute.

[JM1]

My concern with central transfers on public transit is that it cannot use the roads. The existing bridges are already full.

Also, there will be additional traffic on the Eddy Street Bridge once Zibi is built out (with traffic lights interfering with inter-provincial traffic).

In my view the only options are (1) an underground central tunnel connecting rapidbus via Zibi to Ottawa or (2) an overhead gondola system that connects the rapidbus via Zibi to Ottawa.

I think option (2) would be both less expensive and would make for a cool addition to the cities.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Yep. I live in the east end & work in Hull. I took transit this morning instead of the usual bike ride. Got off Line 1 at Lyon, walked to Wellington and grabbed the first STO bus going towards Place du portage. 5 minutes.

The PoW bridge could be of use to those coming from the west end but not for people like me coming from the east end. It would just add time to the commute.

In the future if there's a Gatineau LRT connecting at Rideau, you'd transfer there and go directly to Portage. You wouldn't use Bayview. Only those coming from the South and West in Ottawa would use Bayview.

There's also the question of how much longer Ottawa can tolerate waves of STO buses running though downtown Ottawa. As the region grows, this traffic will grow. And at some point, it'll become contentious. If they are building a new transport network (like a new LRT), far better for them to plan multiple transfer than overwhelm a single point and then keep buses running through the core.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

In the future if there's a Gatineau LRT connecting at Rideau, you'd transfer there and go directly to Portage. You wouldn't use Bayview. Only those coming from the South and West in Ottawa would use Bayview.

Yeah, that's probably what I'd do.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Yeah, that's probably what I'd do.

See this map that I posted before (stolen from reddit) that summarizes the Gatineau LRT proposals and connection points. My only changes would be direct all Gatineau LRTs through Hull to Rideau and send the Rapibus across the PoW (either current bridge or some future crossing).