Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Tunney's Pasture has some long transfer walks but it does mean bus flow will be pretty efficient. With lots of space between the bus platforms and no crosswalks, buses will be able to pull in and out and drive through very quickly even with lots of bus movements. This is key to ensuring the transfer point can handle big volumes.

Yes, they are doing the best they can to transfer that many people.

[rocketphish]

Transpo boss: Give the LRT system time to 'relax'

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 18, 2019



OC Transpo is warning councillors and citizen transit commissioners to not beat down the agency’s doors with ideas about making tweaks to the nascent LRT system.

As transportation GM John Manconi suggested Wednesday, the ideas likely won’t be good.

Manconi was trying to stress that transit experts have worked for years planning the Confederation Line, so unless the transit commissioners are gurus in transit operations, their ideas probably aren’t useful.

“Let the system relax. Let it find its equilibrium,” Manconi said during a transit commission meeting.

Transit commissioners — eight are councillors and four are public members — were asking about specific components of the LRT system and some connecting bus routes.

After the meeting, Manconi said staff will follow direction from council members and commissioners, but he just wants the LRT system to have time to become part of the transit landscape in Ottawa, especially after the big bus route changes on Oct. 6.

Wednesday was the fifth day of LRT and councillors have been collecting public feedback and making their own observations.

Manconi said all suggestions, including those from the public, are being logged in a database for staff to consider.

Coun. Allan Hubley, the chair of the commission, said commissioners should give Transpo “breathing room” while it manages the first days of LRT.

Customer transfers between buses and LRT stations at Tunney’s Pasture and Blair are under close watch by Transpo managers. The agency is using drones to understand how customers are moving between buses and trains.

“We are seeing constant improvements every day, hour by hour, about the rail-to-bus positions and we’re going to look at if there are things we can tweak,” Manconi said.

Many gripes come down to people’s travel habits changing, Manconi, noting the LRT service is working well so far.

Stinky tunnel stations could be from moisture

Public transit commissioner Anthony Carricato asked about the elephant in tunnel: what’s that smell down there?

Carricato was echoing questions from transit customers who have noted a sewage-like smell in Parliament Station.

It could be from “moisture” in areas designed to collect liquid, Manconi said.

Manconi said Rideau Transit Maintenance is pumping out moisture from a station sump pits. Maintenance staff are also looking at Rideau Station, he said.

Manconi said after the meeting that there’s no water leaking through the tunnel.


RedBlacks ticket-holders: Find a red vest at LRT stations

The fare gates at LRT stations aren’t ready to scan Ottawa RedBlacks’ game tickets, so fans will need to show their tickets to Transpo staff wearing red vests to get on a train on Saturday, transit commissioners heard.

Transpo fare is included in the price of game tickets.

LRT doesn’t go to TD Place, but Transpo buses travel on Bank Street to the stadium from downtown.


Minimum load on Presto card dropping to a nickel

The minimum load value on Presto cards is dropping to five cents on Oct. 28 when customers put money on their cards at in-person outlets.

The current minimum load is $10.

Metrolinx, the Crown agency that runs the Presto system, announced this week that the minimum load will drop for all Presto-riding agencies.

It will still cost $6 to buy a Presto card.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/transpo-boss-give-the-lrt-system-time-to-relax

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

2. There are are no escalators at Tremblay station. Given the higher likelihood of passengers carrying luggage that makes using stairs very uncomfortable, this is far from ideal in the long-term if we want more people to use transit to the train station. I can see the number of elevators being inadequate, maybe even immediately when a single VIA train unloads hundreds of passengers. Escalators should be both up and down at this location.

I noted this too, but decided it was because it is dangerous to have suitcases on escalators. This forces people with luggage to take the elevators.

[Truenorth00]

I had a strange fault today. Pulled into Cyrville. Doors didn't open. Pushed button on several. Rode on to Blair. Told the monitors at Blair. Told the operator. Thought he forgot to open it. Turns out the doors are supposed to be automatic.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I noted this too, but decided it was because it is dangerous to have suitcases on escalators. This forces people with luggage to take the elevators.

I used escalators within both Toronto's and Ottawa's VIA rail stations today with my luggage. Obviously, escalators can handle luggage.

[lrt's friend]

The fare gates at LRT stations aren’t ready to scan Ottawa RedBlacks’ game tickets, so fans will need to show their tickets to Transpo staff wearing red vests to get on a train on Saturday, transit commissioners heard.

Interesting, they required us to scan our tickets at the last game to go through the fare gates. I guess, they had problems that I did not experience.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Interesting, they required us to scan our tickets at the last game to go through the fare gates. I guess, they had problems that I did not experience.

Redblacks tickets are a bar code whereas your fare ticket is either a FOB or a QR code. Plus the redblacks would have to coordinate any bar codes with OC Transpo.

In the past (and likely for the foreseeable future) the red vests will take a glance and open the door, just like every single time I've taken a bus with a ticket like that.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Transpo boss: Give the LRT system time to 'relax'

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 18, 2019

. . .

It will still cost $6 to buy a Presto card.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/transpo-boss-give-the-lrt-system-time-to-relax

Of course, you don’t actually BUY the PRESTO card; you pay PRESTO to allow you to have non-exclusive access to their system through the use of one of their cards. Read the back of your PRESTO card. It says “Card remains the property of PRESTO.” They retain the right to take it back at will.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

They retain the right to take it back at will.

I'd like to see them try!
<Charlton Heston from my cold dead hands dotf gif>

[AuxTown]

I find the fully lit tunnel interesting. Is this standard in new subway/LRT tunnels? I always kind of liked shooting off into the dark on the Tube/NYC/Paris subways.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Redblacks tickets are a bar code whereas your fare ticket is either a FOB or a QR code. Plus the redblacks would have to coordinate any bar codes with OC Transpo.

In the past (and likely for the foreseeable future) the red vests will take a glance and open the door, just like every single time I've taken a bus with a ticket like that.

The last game we used the scanner at the fare gate to open it. Perhaps, the season ticket card had something more than other forms of game tickets. But it did work without someone opening the gate for us.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

You think having to tap your pass again is a major issue?

No, I do not. The platform allocation, not the tapping, is the problem.

I think giving the hideously unreliable local buses in the east side of inner Ottawa the worst, longest-walk boarding spots on the bus quais, is a major issue. Those routes do not have the benefit of the frequency, or the dedicated running way, of the suburban Transitway routes. It would have been the least OC Transpo could have done to maximize the convenience and reliability of those transfers, since they view all the other problems with east-end service as intractable.

Instead, users of the workhorse 12 are very frequently going to watch their bus depart as they sprint (if they can sprint) across the pedway, whose use is now mandatory because the level crossing has been sealed shut.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You like to argue with me, but both our positions have much more in common than you will admit.

I am looking for sensible solutions that address the greatest needs just as you are. We all look through our personal lenses of where we live to some degree. There is no denying that. I am an advocate for the south end. There is nothing wrong with that, is there? Of course not. The Confederation Line does not serve South Ottawa effectively.

There's some points of view we have in common. But I don't believe our worldview is all that close at all. You are projecting your selfishness onto others. You advocate for your personal benefit, and that's why you can't imagine anybody else not doing the same. It's a classic boomer trait.

I've already explained that I didn't live anywhere near the planned line when I advocated against the old plan. And I would not change my point of view if I live anywhere else. I've seen what politically driven transit plans can do, from my time in Toronto. And this is exactly why I'm a strong believer in transit dollars going towards maximizing ridership above all else. I will support investment in real riders over hypothetical riders even if it were to be at my own interest.

I am also less attached to the idea that I need to advocate for a certain end of town, because my career moves me in and out of Ottawa, and to jobs around the city. I could easily end up living and working elsewhere in Ottawa. That reality has me looking at Ottawa as whole, as opposed to just a part of it here or there.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have never rejected the need for a downtown tunnel. I never said the Chiarelli plan was perfect. In fact, it's biggest flaw of all, was the lack of a downtown tunnel more so than the originally planned surface route. The writing was on the wall, and no matter what, the next step needed to be the tunnel. It needed to happen in the same time frame as has happened. Whether the politicians would have understood that need under different circumstances is another question.

Why exactly would the politicians, let alone the public, support building a tunnel to run in parallel to the exact same corridor that was just built and supposed to address transit needs through the core? Can you show me any city where a line was built and the politicians and public happily paid for a parallel corridor just 5 to 10 years later? More particularly can you show an example of this in Canada, or any city of a similar size to Ottawa where this happened?

What you believe would have happened through your rose tinted glasses is what the rest of us can't agree on, as a realistic outcome. And that's where the difference of opinion lies. The rest of us see the likelihood that the public and politicians would question why a half billion dollar tunnel would be required after a recent construction project through the core. And then we'd end up with a decade or two of squabbling before it actually got built.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Trillium line after 15 years as currently planned is a poor replacement for the original plan. hear your comments on that plan but they aren't going to change that plan at any point for decades to come. That has been my primary complaint that we are building a crap phase 2 that does not address many of the current Trillium Line flaws.

This is reasonable. But does not in any way make the old plan defensible. It just means that the current Stage 2 Trillium plan is sub-par and we need to push for improvements.

Stage 2 Trillium being crap does not at all change the reality that the Chiarelli LRT plan was crap at building capacity through the downtown core.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Also, my comments about the lack of trunk line service from the south end to downtown is nothing more than regret. I know it isn't going to happen as a result of decisions made in the last ten years. This isn't going to change. I acknowledge that, but understand, that offering no trunk line route from the south end to downtown is going to curtail ridership, just the same as if we ran rail from Orleans to Hurdman and required everybody to transfer there. It is no different.

You know what suppresses ridership far more in the south end? Our crap bus services. Taking Trillium to say 4-6 minute service won't dramatically increase ridership if the feeder bus service is still crap. The transfer at Bayview is not close to the primary deterrent that you think it is. Think of Hurdman, for example. How many people think Hurdman is a deterrent to ridership? Ottawa is big city and getting bigger. People need to get used to the idea of transferring. Please read Jarrett Walker's piece on transferring, for a professional take on it. He specifically discusses the issues that 9-5 commuters have with transferring.

Ottawa residents also need to get over their downtown centric fixation with transit. It's a particular fixation in North America where a mostly suburban public largely only takes transit to/from work. You can't, however, build an effective alternative to the car, if all your transit is downtown focused. This is becoming particularly obvious in the GTA for example, where anybody traveling from different parts of the 905 to other parts of the 905 would need to go through Union station because that's how GO is largely designed. I would hope we can be smarter than that in Ottawa.

[Truenorth00]

Escalators at Tremblay....seem like a good idea. But very expensive to install for only a few riders to use daily. There's no escalators at Cyrville either, for example. And rightly so. Passenger volume doesn't justify it.

Maybe escalators gets done if VIA HFR happens. And hopefully, they'll also push for connected shelter. It's unfortunate that they didn't build the station with a direct connection to the VIA station. But I think that was due to the track geometry in the area. If/when VIA HFR gets developed, there will probably be lots of mods to VIA's stations that might extend shelter to Tremblay station.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

4. We really cheaped out on video displays on-board. They only point in one direction. There were clearly a place to put the video displays in the other direction but were not installed. This is not ideal because seats point in both directions.
5. The exit direction is neither displayed nor announced. TTC subways tell which way to exit at every station both visually and verbally. I spoke to an OC Transpo representative at Tunney's about this. Hopefully, this will be fixed.
....
7. Wayfaring was inadequate. As soon as you step off the train, you should see directions in front of you to exits, buses, Line 2, escalators and elevators. You have to look around for signage. This was particularly bad at Bayview and I spoke to an OC representative about this. You should get off a train and know immediately where to go, otherwise, you have a tendency to stop and look around slowing other passengers. I know I did that.
...
9. Tunney's has two platforms but the signage to tell you which platform to go to was not facing passengers entering from the bus transfer station where it is needed most. This needs to be fixed.

Information and wayfinding in general is poorly done. Earlier I pointed out how confusing the headboards can be when they are above you on the platform. In Toronto, they are in front of you when on the platform, not behind you. So you can tell which direction you are travelling. I have no idea why they put they behind you.

Signage to exits, connections, platforms is lacking. Not sure this is an OC Transpo flaw (though OCT is bad at this in general) as much as RTG cheaping out. That's how DBFOMs work after all.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Escalators at Tremblay....seem like a good idea. But very expensive to install for only a few riders to use daily. There's no escalators at Cyrville either, for example. And rightly so. Passenger volume doesn't justify it.

Maybe escalators gets done if VIA HFR happens. And hopefully, they'll also push for connected shelter. It's unfortunate that they didn't build the station with a direct connection to the VIA station. But I think that was due to the track geometry in the area. If/when VIA HFR gets developed, there will probably be lots of mods to VIA's stations that might extend shelter to Tremblay station.

When I was there, there was a full elevator of passengers going to the train station with luggage. Several people all at once. It will be potentially worse for VIA train arrivals which will tend to be large groups all at once, delaying access to the C-Train platform.

I know it will be really expensive to retrofit escalators after the fact. This is bad planning for a station to be used for many years and with the real possibility that more people will be taking the train in the future.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

No, I do not. The platform allocation, not the tapping, is the problem.

I think giving the hideously unreliable local buses in the east side of inner Ottawa the worst, longest-walk boarding spots on the bus quais, is a major issue. Those routes do not have the benefit of the frequency, or the dedicated running way, of the suburban Transitway routes. It would have been the least OC Transpo could have done to maximize the convenience and reliability of those transfers, since they view all the other problems with east-end service as intractable.

Instead, users of the workhorse 12 are very frequently going to watch their bus depart as they sprint (if they can sprint) across the pedway, whose use is now mandatory because the level crossing has been sealed shut.

Ah, OK. That is certainly a valid point.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

1. There is not continuous weather protection from the train station to Tremblay station. Weather protection is more decorative than effective.

My sources tell me that the city badly wanted to directly connect Tremblay station with the Via train station but the train station refused. Apparently the station is protected under the Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act so they were worried about how it would affect their building including its exterior aesthetic design. LMAO a heap of rubble would scarcely have less aesthetic design.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

When I was there, there was a full elevator of passengers going to the train station with luggage. Several people all at once. It will be potentially worse for VIA train arrivals which will tend to be large groups all at once, delaying access to the C-Train platform.

I know it will be really expensive to retrofit escalators after the fact. This is bad planning for a station to be used for many years and with the real possibility that more people will be taking the train in the future.

Have to keep in that the old Transitway station didn't have an escalator either. Just stairs and elevators.

It's a choke point to be sure with folks waiting for an elevator. Is it enough of a choke point to justify investing in escalators? Even during the Transitway days, I found most folks cabbed or got picked up or drove out of the station. The amount heading for the Transitway station were few. I think until ridership picks up there, they didn't want to spend the dollars. I don't blame them.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

My sources tell me that the city badly wanted to directly connect Tremblay station with the Via train station but the train station refused. Apparently the station is protected under the Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act so they were worried about how it would affect their building including its exterior aesthetic design. LMAO a heap of rubble would scarcely have less aesthetic design.

I've heard this too.

I recall also, that among the first iterations was a simple swap for Transitway station to LRT station. But then they realized that the track geometry worked better if the LRT station was beside the VIA station and changed plans accordingly.