Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

How many idiotic philosophies can these guys at city hall come up?

They wrote the book on idiotic philosophies and its like infinite chapters and all! What they should have done is made an entrance in that building thats literally being built right now that will be leased by the city for people boarding and exiting the southbound side of the Canada line to at least easy traffic flow a little. I can't imagine it would have cost that much sort of like the escalator additions...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I think initially there was a plan to link granville with VanCityCentre together but the distance is too far apart AND the Bay is in the way. (you don't ahve to walk through pacific centre. you can just walk past tim hortons and into the bay and go down 1 level.)

IIRC the original plan was for a station at Nelson and another near Dunsmuir; through the power of value engineering, they were merged into City Centre.

[dandor31]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

So are the 8 and the 19 going to have to divert to Main & Kingsway for transfer rather than taking Kingsway all the way?

My thoughts as well. I thought it would be on the SE corner of Main and Broadway. That way it's more in between Main and Kingsway (3 and 8/19). Reduces the number of cross walk you have to do.

This arrangement, if you are on the 8/19 northbound and get off Kingsway at Broadway (assume the stop stays on the far side) you have three crossings to get to the station.

That said, I think re-routing the 8/19 to be closer, would be even worse. The delays to through riders would be bad.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

So are the 8 and the 19 going to have to divert to Main & Kingsway for transfer rather than taking Kingsway all the way?

Doubtful, people can just walk from the bus stop around the corner.

[TransitJack]

There is room for another 2-3 gates. I think we should expect a connection between the two lines and likely a lot of passengers leaving/entering the station today are transferring from/to the B -Line.

It will be interesting to see how the integration is planned/built.

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

Having a only single exit at Boadway/Cambie is pure stupidity. It's already packed during rush hours. Even though people that normally get off here for the 99 won't have to exit the station, it's still a major exchange hub. You need more than just one entrance and 5 gates.

Vancouver is still very old-minded when it comes to scale and crowd control.



I think initially there was a plan to link granville with VanCityCentre together but the distance is too far apart AND the Bay is in the way. (you don't ahve to walk through pacific centre. you can just walk past tim hortons and into the bay and go down 1 level.)

[jollyburger]

Some things mentioned earlier today seem to be the complete opposite of what the city has said in the past.

9. Design for future flexibility. That the system and stations be designed in a manner to allow for flexibility for future underground pedestrian connections and integration with nearby developments.

a. That stations and related system structures should be designed to allow
for overbuild and integration into current and future developments whenever
feasible. (also contributes towards Principles #10 and #12)

b. That the Broadway Extension work with the City of Vancouver towards full
integration of the Cambie Station with a future City of Vancouver campus on
the block bounded by Cambie, Yukon, West 10th Avenue and West Broadway.
(also contributes towards Principles #10 and #12)

c. That the Broadway Extension work with the owner of Lot 7 of the Great
Northern Way Structure Plan when designing and building the Great Northern
Way Station head house (entry building) and underground elements to allow
for overbuild of station head house or integration into a concurrent or future
development. (also contributes towards Principle #10)

d. That the Broadway Extension work with stakeholders in the Vancouver
General Hospital area to explore the possibility of an accessible underground
connection between the future Oak Street Station and Vancouver General
Hospital campus. (also contributes towards Principles #4, #5 and #11)

e. That City staff should seek opportunities with new developments for
underground connections to the MLBE (e.g. emergency exits, additional
entrances, direct connections, etc.)

12. Recognize significance of Cambie Station. That Cambie Station be given special consideration due to the significance of the site as a major transportation hub and centre of a civic and medical precinct including considering opportunities for the City or another party to provide additional station entrances.

a. That consideration be given to additional entrances at Cambie Street
Station due to the significance of the site (major transfer point, future City of
Vancouver campus), to reduce pedestrian movements at grade and to allow
flexibility to upgrade the existing entrance during construction of the future
City Hall campus with minimal impacts to transit operations and passengers.
(also contributes towards Principles #2, #9 and #11)

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/millennium-line-broadway-extension-principles-and-strategies.pdf

[xd_1771]

What's encouraging is that the entire city block of SE Cambie/Broadway is essentially going to be set as a construction/staging zone. If we push hard enough, we could potentially get the current entrance significantly widened.

What I don't want to see is the asinine Canada Line like setup where it can take 3 elevator rides (3!!!) to get to the platform you want. (Looking at you Oakridge and Langara stations...). Maybe I'm just jealous of how Seattle's UW link and Ottawa's Confederation Line have platform to surface rapid elevators, but seriously, we need that for MLBE.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

What's encouraging is that the entire city block of SE Cambie/Broadway is essentially going to be set as a construction/staging zone. If we push hard enough, we could potentially get the current entrance significantly widened.

What I don't want to see is the asinine Canada Line like setup where it can take 3 elevator rides (3!!!) to get to the platform you want. (Looking at you Oakridge and Langara stations...). Maybe I'm just jealous of how Seattle's UW link and Ottawa's Confederation Line have platform to surface rapid elevators, but seriously, we need that for MLBE.

They said they don't want that elevator setup in the document above as well.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Fascinating that the staging and construction footprints of the sites are also illustrated. Each other of these should become a significant commercial TOD project for which Translink would provide land in exchange for an equity stake in a developer-built project. This would raise serious permanent revenue for Translink and should be the development model going forward.

Exactly. Why this hasn’t been common practice with all
Previous sky train lines is ridiculous. Makes far too much sense not to go through with that practice moving forward for all future developments

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that depends, how much time ya got?

this is such a stupid idea, maybe back in 1989 it was true, but not 2019. this station is already too busy for only FIVE fare-gates. it is going to get insane with both the Canada-Line and Millennium-Line sharing 1, small entrance.

they must be betting on the fact people wont need to enter/leave the station with the 99 going away.

A good portion of the traffic that comes and goes from the cityhall station is B Line ridership. That was my daily commute for about 4 months and shocked me that they left space for additional 2 fare gates but never installed them. And that they only work one way and not directional like other stations.

So in theory that does makes sense. What will effect that is future development to the east.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

I'm not sure why everyone is blaming the city (or TransLink) for this. My understanding is the station selection process was taken out of their hands sometime ago.

Exactly. TransLink doesn't build buses and ferries - it just operates them. The same goes for rapid transit. They get to have their input, but in a project like this there are a lot of other players involved as well.

[Express691]

Someone is arguing that there will be less in and out for the 99 with the single entrance to both stations.

Do I argue that the density says otherwise? Or that the area is still a major exchange hub?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Express691

Someone is arguing that there will be less in and out for the 99 with the single entrance to both stations.

Do I argue that the density says otherwise? Or that the area is still a major exchange hub?

Yeah, if TPTB are assuming that most commuters will transfer instead of entering/exiting, that's a lousy assumption; Broadway and Cambie will be considerably denser in the near future, meaning more residents/workers/shoppers, meaning a whole lot more in/out traffic. If TransLink and City Hall've run the numbers and 7-8 faregates are enough for that, fine, but if the one station thing is ideological, then we're going to have a problem.

[GenWhy?]

Rush hour is going to be insane... not good.

[Spr0ckets]

I'm still stunned that they thought it would be a good idea to run this line just to Arbutus instead of all the way to UBC, when we all know that in about 7-10 years (or less) after they open, they'll be extending it anyway, but at probably twice the cost it would have cost them to do it right the first time anyway.
It's like they learned nothing from short-changing and penny-pinching the Canada Line single tracking "bright idea".

And yes, I realize the decision was taken out of their hands, but still, the short-sightedness, and levels of bureaucratic inefficiency (and outright incompetence) involved in letting a decision you know is just not right go on and which will cost you more in the long run, just amazes me.

The primary users of the line are going to be UBC students, professors and workers. The increased densification of the Broadway corridor means it will be more affordable (and logical) for students (and the other aforementioned)a in the long run to move there instead of taking longer commutes or driving. Add increased population growth and more riders, and you do the math.

So it's obviously also no surprise that they also thought a single entrance to the Cambie station for the combined lines would still suffice for the long run.
I see another skytrain/translink station and hub expansion in their future, and not that far off.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I'm still stunned that they thought it would be a good idea to run this line just to Arbutus instead of all the way to UBC, when we all know that in about 7-10 years (or less) after they open, they'll be extending it anyway, but at probably twice the cost it would have cost them to do it right the first time anyway.
It's like they learned nothing from short-changing and penny-pinching the Canada Line single tracking "bright idea".

And yes, I realize the decision was taken out of their hands, but still, the short-sightedness, and levels of bureaucratic inefficiency (and outright incompetence) involved in letting a decision you know is just not right go on and which will cost you more in the long run, just amazes me.

The primary users of the line are going to be UBC students, professors and workers. The increased densification of the Broadway corridor means it will be more affordable (and logical) for students (and the other aforementioned)a in the long run to move there instead of taking longer commutes or driving. Add increased population growth and more riders, and you do the math.

So it's obviously also no surprise that they also thought a single entrance to the Cambie station for the combined lines would still suffice for the long run.
I see another skytrain/translink station and hub expansion in their future, and not that far off.

One of the busiest stations is Richmond Center. You can go by it any time of the day and there will be enough standing around to make you notice. I think there is 5 major projects that will be starting in the next few years. You will have an influx of 4 to 5000 homes. That is a lot of ridership on an already crowded train. SO cant wait in 10 years when we go through the awarding of the contract to convert the line from single track to two.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I'm still stunned that they thought it would be a good idea to run this line just to Arbutus instead of all the way to UBC, when we all know that in about 7-10 years (or less) after they open, they'll be extending it anyway, but at probably twice the cost it would have cost them to do it right the first time anyway.
It's like they learned nothing from short-changing and penny-pinching the Canada Line single tracking "bright idea".

And yes, I realize the decision was taken out of their hands, but still, the short-sightedness, and levels of bureaucratic inefficiency (and outright incompetence) involved in letting a decision you know is just not right go on and which will cost you more in the long run, just amazes me.

The primary users of the line are going to be UBC students, professors and workers. The increased densification of the Broadway corridor means it will be more affordable (and logical) for students (and the other aforementioned)a in the long run to move there instead of taking longer commutes or driving. Add increased population growth and more riders, and you do the math.

So it's obviously also no surprise that they also thought a single entrance to the Cambie station for the combined lines would still suffice for the long run.
I see another skytrain/translink station and hub expansion in their future, and not that far off.

I'm totally with you but I suspect it may be a bird in hand is better than two that isn't. Build something sooner than wait for all the funding to arrive to start the line?

The line is totally pointless IMO without a full extension out to UBC, that is essentially inevitable at this stage.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Metro Vancouver, due to the lack of foresight on the Canada Line, didn't make the train line up at Granville or Burrard, so people have to travel all the way to Waterfront to switch, or they have to go back up to the road level and negotiate traffic again. Stupid, but there IS a way to get from Granville to Vancouver City Center without going back up to the street level in the rain, you just have to hope that Pacific Center Mall is open, which it's never open early enough to use it as a commuter shortcut.

That was cost cutting even before the RFP process.

The original concept had 2 stations - Dunsmuir Station (transfer station with Granville) and Nelson Station.
Those 2 stations were combined into Robson Station, which was subsequently shifted north to Georgia St. for easier West Vancouver bus transfers.
Meanwhile, there is a bit gap in the Canada Line between City Centre Station and Yaletown Station as a result.

Originally Posted by cairnstone

One of the busiest stations is Richmond Center. You can go by it any time of the day and there will be enough standing around to make you notice. I think there is 5 major projects that will be starting in the next few years. You will have an influx of 4 to 5000 homes. That is a lot of ridership on an already crowded train. SO cant wait in 10 years when we go through the awarding of the contract to convert the line from single track to two.

Or a farside platform like YVR has proposed?
Could be more difficult though cantilevered over the road.
Or just move all the buses to Lansdowne Station and operate higher frequency through that double track station?

[p78hub]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

None of the above.

The real reason for single entrance points is because CoV wants to shove pedestrians into the streets to give it a "European feel", which is just bullshit coming out of their mouths.

It makes me wonder if anyone at City Hall has actually used a European transit system. Like, even the smaller Paris Metro stations on the outer lines have multiple entrances.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

One of the busiest stations is Richmond Center. You can go by it any time of the day and there will be enough standing around to make you notice. I think there is 5 major projects that will be starting in the next few years. You will have an influx of 4 to 5000 homes. That is a lot of ridership on an already crowded train. SO cant wait in 10 years when we go through the awarding of the contract to convert the line from single track to two.

Doesn't help that the split at Bridgeport effectively cuts capacity in half. We need a redesign so that the YVR branch continues to function as normal, but 99% of the trains go to Richmond.