Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You say that because it serves you extremely well. We wasted $100M of our tax money because of that advocacy. A lot of that advocacy also related to the 'unnecessary' shut down of the Trillium Line. In the long-term, it will be shut down a lot longer than the original 3 year proposal and deliver far less.

We probably would have wasted $100million on the first proposal proposal because of spending money on a surface route through downtown only to rip it up and build a tunnel at some point in time.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
The real issue as I see it is the fact that Trillium terminates at Bayview. Had it gone across and ran along the current Rapibus corridor, nobody would be clamouring to have it run downtown. The complaints are partially the result of a dysfunctional regional transit policy.

The other half of the complaints comes from spoiled Ottawa residents used to one-seat rides who think transit is all about commuting to the core.

Groan!! There is no need for rail transit between South Ottawa and Gatineau. Seriously, how many Gatineau residents are heading to English language Carleton University and South Keys? Likewise, how many residents from Hunt Club and Riverside South are heading to the Gatineau sector. That is not a primary desire line. Gatineau residents, and south Ottawa residents both want to go to downtown. Building a through line that cannot be justified by ridership does not change anything about where people want to go and likely will soon overload the Confederation Line at Bayview Station.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

We probably would have wasted $100million on the first proposal proposal because of spending money on a surface route through downtown only to rip it up and build a tunnel at some point in time.

Why would we rip it up? The surface line could have been extended to Rideau and Montreal Road. There would be no advantage of ripping up rail on Albert and Slater with all the buses gone.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why would we rip it up? The surface line could have been extended to Rideau and Montreal Road. There would be no advantage of ripping up rail on Albert and Slater with all the buses gone.

You asked why. Well the streetcars were abandoned because they kept getting caught in traffic and there were lots of car crashes to name a couple of reasons of not making that same mistake again.

Anyway I took line 1 to get to work and its now much easier since i wont be getting caught in traffic anymore.

As for your comment about why should they extend line 2 to gatineau the answer is easy, the are lots of transit users from Barrhaven and Kanata that work at place de portage hence the routes of 61,63, 66 and 75 going to gatineau. So any extension into Gatineau is about serving Ottawa residents not Gatineau residents that you would falsly claim it is.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

You asked why. Well the streetcars were abandoned because they kept getting caught in traffic and there were lots of car crashes to name a couple of reasons of not making that same mistake again.

Correct--and when streetcars stopped everyone stopped, on Bank street.on Sparks street for instance. The streets were narrow. The tracks were as slippery as hell when it rained and iced up in winter. The overhead wires and poles were as unsightly as can be.
Traffic was not as heavy then. With today's traffic it would really be a mess. I am old enough to remember this. Thank goodness we did not put anything like that in our downtown core this time.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You say that because it serves you extremely well. We wasted $100M of our tax money because of that advocacy. A lot of that advocacy also related to the 'unnecessary' shut down of the Trillium Line. In the long-term, it will be shut down a lot longer than the original 3 year proposal and deliver far less.

100%.

David Jeanes sounds very pompous in that article.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the Confederation Line is great. A rail tunnel under downtown was needed.

But the intervention of his “Friends” is a big part of why LRT only opened in Ottawa this weekend instead of 10 years ago.

It was shortsighted to throw away what was planned and waste $100M.

[AuxTown]

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/lrt-experiences-brief-delay-on-monday-commute-home-1.4593517

LRT experiences brief delay on Monday commute home
CTV Ottawa
Published Saturday, September 14, 2019 4:48PM EDT
Last Updated Monday, September 16, 2019 6:47PM EDT

Service on Ottawa's new light rail transit system was briefly delayed during Monday's commute home.

Transit commission chair Allan Hubley tells CTV News there was an eight minute delay on the Confederation Line in the late afternoon due to a default code that needed to be reset. The issue has been solved and trains are moving. The minor delay did cause some bus backlogs at stations like Tunney's Pasture.

Well it looks like the sky is falling already folks. I wonder what caused the default code?

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I've seen a number of people frantically tapping the door open buttons on cars to open them from either side not realizing all the doors are automatic.

I noticed this as well. While I am sure it has been discussed here already, it seems like a poor design decision to include a button like this. Naturally people are going to press it non-stop until something happens even if the doors open automatically.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

I noticed this as well. While I am sure it has been discussed here already, it seems like a poor design decision to include a button like this. Naturally people are going to press it non-stop until something happens even if the doors open automatically.

Can the button be used to open the door in the event of an emergency?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Can the button be used to open the door in the event of an emergency?

Assuming the doors can still operate under power, sure. But usually you just force the doors open after using the emergency release.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/lrt-experiences-brief-delay-on-monday-commute-home-1.4593517


Well it looks like the sky is falling already folks. I wonder what caused the default code?

Everyone is focused on this, but more important is that the 3 week parallel bus service had an unintended side effect. It means the buses that should be there to pickup passengers at Blair and Tunney's are still stuck downtown.

[OttawaSteve]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I've seen a number of people frantically tapping the door open buttons on cars to open them from either side not realizing all the doors are automatic.

There are stickers directly above the buttons advising people "To open door, wait for green light then push button." I can understand why people who don't have a lot of experience using the trains would think the doors are manually activated.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Groan!! There is no need for rail transit between South Ottawa and Gatineau. Seriously, how many Gatineau residents are heading to English language Carleton University and South Keys? Likewise, how many residents from Hunt Club and Riverside South are heading to the Gatineau sector. That is not a primary desire line. Gatineau residents, and south Ottawa residents both want to go to downtown. Building a through line that cannot be justified by ridership does not change anything about where people want to go and likely will soon overload the Confederation Line at Bayview Station.

You keep on pressing for a door to door ride. Maybe only a few people will go to from South Ottawa to Gatineau but an extension to Gatineau provides routes to Gatineau for everyone else in the city even if you don't want to take it. You seem to think that you should be able to go wherever you want with no transfers, no matter how seamless and frequent the transfers are. The reality is that some day Ottawa will have a network and not every line will or needs to go to the downtown core in spite of what you might think.

A transfer at Bayview will pull passengers off the Confederation line in both directions to access Gatineau and make space available for other users to board at Bayview to travel in either direction. Contrary to your opinion I do not think that Bayview will be overwhelmed with passengers if the Trillium line is extended to Gatineau. The benefits far outweigh the downsides.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You say that because it serves you extremely well.

Keep trying to make it personal. It's all you've got.

As I've stated before, at the time I attended all those presentations, I didn't live near the Transitway. Lived in New Edinburgh. I just thought it was bizarre that a North-South line was being built when most ridership was East-West. I opposed it for the waste it was.

Then bought my condo on what was then the Transitway. Before the Confederation Line go ahead happened. I just wanted to live near transit. Had my work been asking the Trillium Line, I would have bought there. And would have still had the same opinion. And I would have been just as fine with it not being converted to rail and not having to walk to St Laurent for years. What I can't support are half measures that don't get rid of the bus parade in the core.

My fundamental opposition to the original proposal remains. Spending a scarce budget on a distant secondary priority while downtown was bursting at the seams a decade ago.

Having moved from Toronto I saw how fleeting transit funding could be. Not addressing the biggest immediate problem was indefensible planning. Akin to Toronto building the Sheppard subway or even the Scarborough subway before the Downtown Relief Line. I didn't want my new home to end up a mess like that.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We wasted $100M of our tax money because of that advocacy. A lot of that advocacy also related to the 'unnecessary' shut down of the Trillium Line. In the long-term, it will be shut down a lot longer than the original 3 year proposal and deliver far less.

Money well spent. Spending nearly a billion on a corridor that doesn't have the ridership is just not justified. And given what's been done with the Confederation Line, that decision is looking even better.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Do you really believe what you are saying? There is no comparison between a 905 commuter who has to pay another fare and there willingness to walk 10 or 15 minutes from Union Station on 1 hour ++ commute, and someone whose streetcar ride might total 10 or 15 minutes.

Your reading comprehension is poor. I said people getting off the subway too. Go stand near King, Queen, St. Patrick, etc watch how many people come out and walk 10 mins instead of boarding a streetcar.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have been riding the streetcars for 4 days with ordinary Torontonians. They are not all tourists.

They aren't. You are. Which is why you don't realize that the folks who tend to use streetcars in Toronto are those who live in the core and then don't use the subway (just going asking King, Queen Bathurst, St. Clair, etc) or are taking a streetcar a lot further than a 10 min walk. For anything around 10-15 mins, a lot of people walk in downtown Toronto. This is similar to say someone from Orleans taking the Confederation Line in and then a bus down Bank.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The streetcars are designed for short trips and city residents take advantage of that heavily. Ridership on the King and Queen streetcars prove that. There is value in transit convenience and frequency and to provide service for short distance riders. Transit planning in Ottawa shouldn't be all about providing service to former Gloucester, Nepean and Kanata residents, the vast majority who will only ride in the AM and PM peak hours and rarely ride in the evenings and on weekends.

You're right. And I hope we'll see bus service that's as frequent as Toronto streetcars inside the Greenbelt.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Would give us all a break? You won.

I call BS where I see it. That article was misleading in the extreme.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

And you won at the expense of other residents.

No. The majority of existing transit riders won at the expense of developers.

Other residents? No existing Trillium Line user is getting worse service. And those hypothetical future users didn't even exist at the time. I'm happy my tax dollars didn't go to boost the margins of the developers in Riverside South at the expense of Orleans or Westboro transit users.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Just see what is happening with the Trillium Line. How poor the design is. You have admitted it yourself, but this is the direct consequence of what happened in 2006.

Indeed. Riverside South screwed is again. They should have terminated at the airport and used that money to twin Trillium. But hey, because they were promised LRT when their McMansions were stakes in the ground extensions took priority over frequency.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The plan for the Confederation Line is also about future riders too. Future infill towers.

But it's first and foremost about existing riders. The 10 000 pphpd that will be on there on October 6th aren't hypothetical future riders. They are existing riders.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Stops are not conveniently located for the vast majority of existing residents. Very few people actually live within walking distance of stations.

And yet it generates premetro levels of ridership. Because trunk lines aren't streetcars and don't need a corridor of density. They need feed and trip generators, which can be condos, but can also be malls and offices.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

qqq
The shelved plans for a station at Jasmine Crescent is a perfect example. We would rather have a station at Montreal Road in a very pedestrian hostile location than where people of modest income live, our natural transit riders. We would rather serve upscale condo owners than those who need it the most.

I support a station at Jasmine because I think the stop spacing and ridership potential justifies it. But setting aside the planning issue, since when has transit in Ottawa become a social justice tool?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

You keep on pressing for a door to door ride. Maybe only a few people will go to from South Ottawa to Gatineau but an extension to Gatineau provides routes to Gatineau for everyone else in the city even if you don't want to take it. You seem to think that you should be able to go wherever you want with no transfers, no matter how seamless and frequent the transfers are. The reality is that some day Ottawa will have a network and not every line will or needs to go to the downtown core in spite of what you might think.

lrt's friend can't seem to think beyond his own travel patterns and is so used to advocating around his own needs, he can't imagine someone advocating for the transit needs of others!

It's amazing how he claims to speak for all the south end residents and then happily tosses any neighbours who don't fit the mould, under the proverbial bus. In this case any neighbours who work in Gatineau are irrelevant apparently.

Originally Posted by GoTrans

A transfer at Bayview will pull passengers off the Confederation line in both directions to access Gatineau and make space available for other users to board at Bayview to travel in either direction. Contrary to your opinion I do not think that Bayview will be overwhelmed with passengers if the Trillium line is extended to Gatineau. The benefits far outweigh the downsides.

I will add that systems that focus on funneling all ridership to the core are systems that tend to discourage transit use outside of commuting and core bound trips.

Why does traffic in Toronto 🞵🞵🞵🞵? Because traveling anywhere but to downtown Toronto, is a pain in the 🞵🞵🞵. All GO lines aim for Union. The subway network aims to the core. Going from Scarborough to North York can take hours. Why would we replicate this in Ottawa? If anything the next East-West corridor needs to be south enough to enable a bypassing of the core. A transit alternative to the 417.

And I agree. I don't see Bayview getting overwhelmed any time soon. This is just his secret wish and hope.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Well it looks like the sky is falling already folks. I wonder what caused the default code?

I was at Lyon when the breakdown happened. No biggie. Saw three trains head west. And then eventually one came back. Particularly nice having the next train display. Saw the next one was a minute out. Waited and got a seat.

[Gat-Train]

I rode the train 3 days in a row. I love the stations and the trains, love em to death. But it doesn't really matter how nice the train is if when people get off it, they're forced to shove their way through throngs of people and squeeze themselves onto a packed 95 or 61. And this is what we will all face. How are we supposed to grow ridership after spending $2 billion only to fire 100s of bus drivers???

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I rode the train 3 days in a row. I love the stations and the trains, love em to death. But it doesn't really matter how nice the train is if when people get off it, they're forced to shove their way through throngs of people and squeeze themselves onto a packed 95 or 61. And this is what we will all face. How are we supposed to grow ridership after spending $2 billion only to fire 100s of bus drivers???

Blair and Tunney's both have space to load/unload 18 buses at once. Since buses start and end at Blair/Tunneys/Hurdman, they should be way more reliable. Shorter, frequent routes are much better for reliability and speed, plus the obvious benefits of not having buses through downtown.


We don't have that system yet. because the 3 week parallel bus service is in effect. Buses still get delayed through downtown. They don't start/end at Blair, so the reliability isn't there yet. You're judging a temporary situation based on the old bus network. Wait until October 6th, and if it's still a shitshow after the new bus network comes into effect, then you're right. But we're not there yet. We haven't fully switched over to LRT yet. Not until the bus network that revolves around LRT comes into effect.