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  #6321  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 4:32 PM
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wow when did they poor that?
Monday night.
Was originally set for last Thursday but delayed for some reason.
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  #6322  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 8:15 PM
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Walked by some open doors/windows into the Food Hall this afternoon on the second floor - colour me shocked if that place is open within a month.
Bare concrete and some steel framing up. I was told they wanted to give the merchants some time in advance to run through their routines and train staff but that would leave 2 or 3 weeks to finish.
I mean, I know they can work fast when needed, but what the hell have they been doing for the last 9 months or so since they started?
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  #6323  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipeg Grump View Post
Walked by some open doors/windows into the Food Hall this afternoon on the second floor - colour me shocked if that place is open within a month.
Bare concrete and some steel framing up. I was told they wanted to give the merchants some time in advance to run through their routines and train staff but that would leave 2 or 3 weeks to finish.
I mean, I know they can work fast when needed, but what the hell have they been doing for the last 9 months or so since they started?
Wow I really thought it would have been nearing completion by now.
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  #6324  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 3:29 AM
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Their content on Instagram definitely gives Off the impression they're opening any day
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  #6325  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 4:58 PM
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The LED screen. It's really going to be a neck cranker. Will be mostly useless for like half the square. Need to be at the far end to make use of it. Otherwise you're looking way up.
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  #6326  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
Their content on Instagram definitely gives Off the impression they're opening any day
It does? It says opening fall 2019 on their IG and they just have a bunch of stock photos posted.
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  #6327  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 3:29 AM
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It does? It says opening fall 2019 on their IG and they just have a bunch of stock photos posted.
None of those are stock photos – they're actual photos of the food that will be served in the market. Most of them shot at the existing locations of all the businesses.
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  #6328  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2019, 8:53 PM
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Good food. Nice!

I will get fat(ter) at TNS for sure.
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  #6329  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 2:46 AM
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Another successful endeavor by True North. If I were Bowman, I would step down, and let Chipman and Thomson run the city.
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  #6330  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 11:11 AM
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None of those are stock photos – they're actual photos of the food that will be served in the market. Most of them shot at the existing locations of all the businesses.
Right. So what about that makes it looks like they’re opening any day?
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  #6331  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 1:54 PM
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Another successful endeavor by True North. If I were Bowman, I would step down, and let Chipman and Thomson run the city.
Ah yes, the ol' "Running the government like a private business will lead to better outcomes so let's vote in successful businessmen to do the job" mentality.

You do realize that the goal of a business is to maximize profits and or/minimize costs, right? If we apply that mentality to a government, your tax rates will double and the public services provided to you (roads, police, fire, recreation, etc.) will be eliminated. Only then will the city's revenues be maximized and expenses be minimized, just like a private business!

Now doesn't that sound stupid? Of course. As it turns out, the exercise of providing public goods to citizens in return for tax dollars is a lot different than selling private goods to maximize profits.

Don't get me wrong: the Chipmans and True North have done amazing things for this city, and have given us a sense of pride and belonging that we haven't felt in a long time, along with significant private investment. But don't mistake their entrepreneurship for benevolence and generosity - they didn't bring back the Jets or build True North Square because they just love us so much and want to see us smile. They did those things because there is money to be made, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship for both customers and the business owners.

Having businesses people who have a vested interest in maximizing their profits or minimizing their expenditures run cities and provinces only makes us worse off because we see time and time again those politicians end up serving themselves more so than the citizens that elected them. Katz was the epitome of a "good businessman" running a city, and he did more harm for Winnipeg than he did good. Those shitty roads you drive on? You can thank years of property tax freezes under Katz for that. The financial mess the city finds itself in right now? You can thank Katz for that. Police HQ screw up? Katz. Shady land deals? Katz. Catering to suburban developers who now think they can run the show? Katz. The list of short-sighted policy decisions that were made by Katz simply because "that's what a business would do" or "hey we've done business together, I'll be sure to make sure I/this City treat you well" is endless.

I'm not saying the alternative extreme (i.e. socialist union mouthpieces) are any better, in fact they are probably worse. But my point is that good politicians recognize that the provision of public goods and municipal governance is a different beast than running a business. To treat those two concepts as one and the same is a massive mistake that leads to poorer outcomes for everyone involved.
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  #6332  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:13 PM
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I don't consider successful business persons to be prime candidates for politics either but come on,you're being a little harsh there.

In fact, you seem to have it backwards in terms of what you think they'll do for a city as mayor. They wouldn't raise your taxes, they'd look for ways (and have done so historically) to reduce them even when it means reducing essential services. Hell, my biggest bone to pick with Katz was that he would consistently cheap out on everything whereas Murray (greatest mayor Winnipeg had in decades, in my opinion) dared to dream.

I don't think it really makes a difference. We certainly don't need more socialist mayors or councilors because they just love to blow through money like it's only there to be spent on things for the poorest people (while ignoring the people who actually create that money for them in the first place) and don't seem to expect results to be produced.
On the other hand, I'd agree that we just can't take any more "pragmatic" business people to treat us like patients at a doctor's office learning that everything we like is now bad for us. Yes, maybe it is but that's also the stuff that makes life worth living, isn't it?

What we need is somebody with the will to dream and the ability to achieve them.
Katz was a dud and so was Thompson. Norrie (whom I assume many of you won't remember anyway) was pretty much as milquetoast as they come. In fact, the last mayor worth a vote was Stephen Juba. Otherwise, the only other one in recent history was Murray and unfortunately he jumped ship so now we're back to the same old, same old.
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  #6333  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
I don't consider successful business persons to be prime candidates for politics either but come on,you're being a little harsh there.

In fact, you seem to have it backwards in terms of what you think they'll do for a city as mayor. They wouldn't raise your taxes, they'd look for ways (and have done so historically) to reduce them even when it means reducing essential services. Hell, my biggest bone to pick with Katz was that he would consistently cheap out on everything whereas Murray (greatest mayor Winnipeg had in decades, in my opinion) dared to dream.

I don't think it really makes a difference. We certainly don't need more socialist mayors or councilors because they just love to blow through money like it's only there to be spent on things for the poorest people (while ignoring the people who actually create that money for them in the first place) and don't seem to expect results to be produced.
On the other hand, I'd agree that we just can't take any more "pragmatic" business people to treat us like patients at a doctor's office learning that everything we like is now bad for us. Yes, maybe it is but that's also the stuff that makes life worth living, isn't it?

What we need is somebody with the will to dream and the ability to achieve them.
Katz was a dud and so was Thompson. Norrie (whom I assume many of you won't remember anyway) was pretty much as milquetoast as they come. In fact, the last mayor worth a vote was Stephen Juba. Otherwise, the only other one in recent history was Murray and unfortunately he jumped ship so now we're back to the same old, same old.
I agree completely with your comments. The tired old "what we need here is (one extreme viewpoint or the other)" has been proven woefully wrong so many times I could cry. There has to be someone out there with a positive and dynamic vision for the entire city, not just "I'll extend the inner ring road" or "I'll study LRT again". Seriously, is there any way we could try to draft someone to run for mayor next time? Any forward-thinking urban planner out there who want a thankless job??
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  #6334  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post

They wouldn't raise your taxes, they'd look for ways (and have done so historically) to reduce them even when it means reducing essential services. Hell, my biggest bone to pick with Katz was that he would consistently cheap out on everything whereas Murray (greatest mayor Winnipeg had in decades, in my opinion) dared to dream.
Yes, you are correct. Our business-orientated "private sector good, public sector bad" mayors did diversify municipal revenue streams, but most municipalities, including Winnipeg, have very few options from where to derive revenues. Again, they aren't a business, they are a provider of public goods.

If the city were run as a business as opposed to a public institution, then there would be no general taxes and instead user fees for everything. Call the Police because someone is breaking in? $1000 bill. Call the Fire department because your kitchen caught fire? $750 charge to your credit card. Call 311 because the neighbors dog is barking? $50 calling fee and a $250 service call fee for animal services or a bylaw officer. Need garbage collected every week? $300 annual garbage collection fee (many cities have this). Road in front of your house has a pothole you want fixed? $1500 invoice from Maple Leaf construction. Want to head over to St. Vital or Kilcona park? $25 entry fee per person. That's how a city would "diversify" it's revenues, like a business. But no city in Canada really operates like this.

So since we, as a population, have decided that public goods should be provided based on one's ability to pay (proxied mainly through property tax) as opposed to user fees, mayors and councilors have very few options left. So what has Winnipeg done to reduce it's reliance on property tax? It increased it's reliance on government grants (which are really unstable and highly dependent on the governing political party) and increased the reliance on user fees for smaller services like recreation and programming fees. Aside from introducing new taxes, we can either charge higher fees (and that has it's limits before people simply stop using the service) or we can rely on unreliable grants from the federal and provincial governments.

The end result is that the city has chosen to keep our property taxes among the lowest of all major Canadian cities, which has resulted in a massive infrastructure deficit, pools closing, rinks not getting ice, inadequate expressways, decaying parks, busted boulevards, fields of grass not being cut, and just an overall "cheap" feel to everything public here.

That's why mayors in this City don't dream. It's impossible. There are no feasible dreams to be had in this city under the current fiscal circumstances. If the population entertained the idea of raising property taxes to bring us in line with most other major cities, then a mayor could dream. But people don't want that, they are content with paying little tax in exchange for little public goods. So what does the mayor do? He goes out and tries to implement an impact fee so that new communities pay for the infrastructure costs associated with the new growth, and what happens? All the developers push back hard (understandable as they are profit-maximizing businesses) and do all that they can to get the public on their side. All while impact fee money piles up in the bank and the City doesn't want to spend it because of a pending legal battle which also costs taxpayer dollars.

See where I'm going here? You can't blame mayors for not being visionaries in this city when there is nothing to envision. There is no money to do anything because it's all tied up in 2 service-based departments (police and fire) and trying to catch up with a $7 billion infrastructure deficit by replacing 1 bridge per decade. We won't even get a second line of BRT in the next 20 years because we are so frugal here in this province and eking out an extra $100 per year from tax payers is considered to be highway robbery in this province. And any time a politician does try to find alternative sources of funding to move this city forward, it comes with massive resistance and takes years to implement.

So no, we can't expect mayors to be visionaries or to dream if we don't give them the resources to do so.
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  #6335  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:52 PM
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This adds nothing to the conversation but my dad hates Bowman with so much passion he nicknamed him Spongebob, somehow tying in the fact he needs to grow up and pull up his big boy pants. Needless to say this has added a new level of enjoyment when I'm at their place for dinner and he's just yelling about Spongebob.
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  #6336  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 9:42 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
Ah yes, the ol' "Running the government like a private business will lead to better outcomes so let's vote in successful businessmen to do the job" mentality.

You do realize that the goal of a business is to maximize profits and or/minimize costs, right? If we apply that mentality to a government, your tax rates will double and the public services provided to you (roads, police, fire, recreation, etc.) will be eliminated. Only then will the city's revenues be maximized and expenses be minimized, just like a private business!

Now doesn't that sound stupid? Of course. As it turns out, the exercise of providing public goods to citizens in return for tax dollars is a lot different than selling private goods to maximize profits.

Don't get me wrong: the Chipmans and True North have done amazing things for this city, and have given us a sense of pride and belonging that we haven't felt in a long time, along with significant private investment. But don't mistake their entrepreneurship for benevolence and generosity - they didn't bring back the Jets or build True North Square because they just love us so much and want to see us smile. They did those things because there is money to be made, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship for both customers and the business owners.

Having businesses people who have a vested interest in maximizing their profits or minimizing their expenditures run cities and provinces only makes us worse off because we see time and time again those politicians end up serving themselves more so than the citizens that elected them. Katz was the epitome of a "good businessman" running a city, and he did more harm for Winnipeg than he did good. Those shitty roads you drive on? You can thank years of property tax freezes under Katz for that. The financial mess the city finds itself in right now? You can thank Katz for that. Police HQ screw up? Katz. Shady land deals? Katz. Catering to suburban developers who now think they can run the show? Katz. The list of short-sighted policy decisions that were made by Katz simply because "that's what a business would do" or "hey we've done business together, I'll be sure to make sure I/this City treat you well" is endless.

I'm not saying the alternative extreme (i.e. socialist union mouthpieces) are any better, in fact they are probably worse. But my point is that good politicians recognize that the provision of public goods and municipal governance is a different beast than running a business. To treat those two concepts as one and the same is a massive mistake that leads to poorer outcomes for everyone involved.
Yes, cities would benefit to actually have a business perspective. The person running the city has to be able to understand how marketplaces thrive, and how those creating jobs and opportunities think.

No, nobody would conflate that with increasing revenue through taxes, and pointing that out wouldn't at all detract from the benefits of a business perspective when running a city.

Politics has also been dirty since the beginning of time, so have a shady mayor is not exclusive to his business background either., Katz wasn't good in my opinion, but there also were few better alternatives. There were, but there were also worse ones.

Nobody from TNSE would run the city, because being mayor pays way less than what they do now. However, I'm not saying they'd automatically do a super job... but they'd have an advantage.
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  #6337  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BlubberMiley View Post
Another successful endeavor by True North. If I were Bowman, I would step down, and let Chipman and Thomson run the city.
lol are you one of those folks who actually think all positive developments in downtown Winnipeg are due to Chipman and Thomson's investment in the MTS Centre and the return of the Jets.
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  #6338  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 2:33 PM
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Walked by some open doors/windows into the Food Hall this afternoon on the second floor - colour me shocked if that place is open within a month.
Bare concrete and some steel framing up. I was told they wanted to give the merchants some time in advance to run through their routines and train staff but that would leave 2 or 3 weeks to finish.
I mean, I know they can work fast when needed, but what the hell have they been doing for the last 9 months or so since they started?
Got an update yesterday.
PCL has done their piece and have handed over the remaining work to the individual contractors responsible for each of the vendors.
Still aiming for the end of this month, but for sure by the time hockey starts up again.

The 2nd floor entry (above Scotiabank and near the elevators) is basically done and just covered up for now.

TNS 2 - if I recall correctly, there were 10 people moved in last weekend.
Osmington (Thomson's real estate firm) has grabbed two of the large suites on 24 for players.

MNP moving in soon and Ceridian is set for 1st week of November.
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  #6339  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 3:20 PM
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Thank you Winnipeg Grump for something other than "who would you rather" as mayor.

Whenever you get a chance could you please snap another cleavage shot of the Sutton Place project.

Thanks
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  #6340  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 3:27 PM
BlubberMiley BlubberMiley is offline
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lol are you one of those folks who actually think all positive developments in downtown Winnipeg are due to Chipman and Thomson's investment in the MTS Centre and the return of the Jets.
The return of the Jets was a shot in the arm for the city. The Jets are part of what brings us all together, whatever our ethnic background or political beliefs may be. The Jets are the best thing Winnipeg has in the winter.

Having said that, Thomson has invested so much into the core area of the city, that I noticed Downtown has changed for the better. I believe one of the reasons Thomson wanted to purchase the Jets, was to acquire real estate surrounding the arena, and built it up. The results speak for themselves.

This is something Winnipeggers may not appreciate, as they have mainly lived in the city their entire lives. However, if one has been away for a decade, the growth of the city, and the rejuvenation of certain areas of the city (Downtown, Exchange, West Broadway, Wolseley, Old St.Boniface,etc) is impressive.
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