Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, it's probable that Hourglass' rumour pertains to the annexes; City Hall itself is unlikely to go anywhere.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yeah, it's probable that Hourglass' rumour pertains to the annexes; City Hall itself is unlikely to go anywhere.

Well, the east wing has been demolished, as it had the greatest likelihood of collapse in only a moderate earthquake. The West Annex was a bit more solid - it has a steel frame for a start, but also some pre-cast elements that have performed poorly in similar types of building in other earthquakes. They've just spent $4.5m adding angled steel braces and extra reinforcement in the basement parking, so that's less likely to have an issue in a moderate earthquake. All bets are off in something bigger - but that's true of a lot of Vancouver buildings.

The main City Hall has some issues, due to its construction. It's reinforced concrete, and there are pictures (too big to post here) of the 1936 construction [like this in the Archives] - possibly taken by McMinsen's grandfather.

Many years ago there was a suggestion that the heritage building needs seismic dampers underneath, as it's the foundation and base that are the potential problem. There was a plan to jack up the building to insert rubber dampers under the base. Given what it must weigh, the engineering, and risk, and cost that would involve, a replacement probably makes more sense. As all the decisions are, understandably, taken 'in camera', until there's actually a decision to spend tens of millions, (or negotiate a sale and lease back which probably isn't as good an idea), we probably won't know what's proposed until it's effectively a done deal. If they're going to tie it in to the construction of the new station they'll have to decide, and come up with at least some of the money, pretty soon. Presumably they could add a new building over the station later, providing it's designed with that intent.

[jollyburger]

Supposed to be in the 2023-2026 Capital Budget

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Why is that a rumour it's already pretty much confirmed that the City is looking at consolidating their municipal operations in a new campus in the area.

https://vancouver.ca/your-government/reimagine-city-hall.aspx

I'd never heard 25 stories before. There would be a considerable podium, so a 25 story office tower would be quite tall for the Broadway business district.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'd never heard 25 stories before. There would be a considerable podium, so a 25 story office tower would be quite tall for the Broadway business district.

No kidding; for reference, City Hall has twelve floors. And there's a viewcone (to it, of all things, not from it) that's cropped many other developments along Cambie. I don't see the current council going for any kind of development of that size.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No kidding; for reference, City Hall has twelve floors. And there's a viewcone (to it, of all things, not from it) that's cropped many other developments along Cambie. I don't see the current council going for any kind of development of that size.

I think what's being suggested is that the eastern half of the block (closer to Yukon) isn't affected by the viewcones, and so potentially could be developed as a tower. If there is already a 28 storey residential tower proposed to the west along Broadway, a 25 storey tower here might not be a stretch, and wouldn't necessarily imply any change to the viewcones (or view of City Hall from the False Creek bridges). Recent policy hasn't supported towers, but the 1972 tower on the 800 block is 18 storeys, and the Jim Pattison Pavilion, higher up the hill, is 19, so it wouldn't be completely out of place either.

[svlt]

Skytrain expansion project moves closer thanks to UBC funds


G&M Paywall, but pertinent details below:

The ambitious plans to expand the Vancouver region’s subway system to the University of British Columbia in the far west and Langley will get a significant boost from money committed by UBC and from development fees, says the head of the transit authority.

TransLink chief executive Kevin Desmond said UBC is now prepared to contribute $100-million or more, along with potential contributions from the three Indigenous nations with developable property near the university. Plans for significant new density along the Fraser Highway will make the Langley section workable, he explained in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

“The [UBC Board of Governors] said they want it and they’re willing to put in a very large amount of money, into nine figures,” Mr. Desmond said. “We believe the Musqueam [and others] would be similarly interested in contributing to the line.”

And, he said, the Surrey-to-Langley line now being planned will see significant development along its route, which is something local politicians are prepared for.

“They understand you’re going to have to build up density around the stations,” he said.

UBC’s associate vice-president for community planning, Michael White, said in an e-mailed statement that the university’s contribution to the line could consist of land for stations, charges collected from developers or transit-enabled revenue collected from people coming to the campus for recreation or culture. He said no specific dollar amount has been determined yet.

Mr. Desmond, the TransLink executive hired away from Seattle four years ago, is carrying out an aggressive plan to try to get all of that built – and more – as quickly as possible.

At the moment, TransLink is moving forward on a first phase of the Surrey-Langley line, a $1.6-billion project that will run from Surrey’s city centre to its Fleetwood neighbourhood seven kilometres away, while trying to plan for a second phase that takes it all the way to Langley.

In Vancouver, the province is overseeing the construction of the first phase of a 5.7-kilometre, $2.8-billion extension that would take the current Millennium Line from Clark Drive to Arbutus Street. Meanwhile, TransLink is working intensively on plans to build and finance a second phase that would continue on from Arbutus to the university. Those additional seven kilometres are currently estimated to cost as much as $3.8-billion.

...

The Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh bands co-own, with the federal government, a big piece of land near Jericho Beach on the west side that is anticipated to see significant development.

There has been much discussion of having the Broadway line swing down to the Jericho lands at Fourth Avenue to serve that development.

“They see the success of the development could be dependent on transit,” Mr. Desmond said.

Mr. Desmond said that the results of the federal election, where there are likely to be promises of transit money from all parties, could mean a seamless construction project for the full line to Langley.

“If everything went well and there was another round of funding available, it’s not that hard to get the additional money to Langley,” he said.

He did caution, though, that things could go the other way, without spelling out which party might be responsible for that.

“Everything could slow down and there could be no money for many years,” he added.

That would be frustrating for everyone in Vancouver, said Mr. Desmond, who noted that, although there are a lot of new mayors in the region, enthusiasm for more additions to the bus and rail networks has not dimmed.

“They all want more transit and they want it yesterday,” he said. In the current consultations about a new 2050 transportation plan, they are asking for everything from a gondola to Simon Fraser University, SkyTrain to North Vancouver and, in one suggestion, an extension of the Canada Line from Tsawwassen in the far south to Horseshoe Bay in West Vancouver.

[Mac Write]

I just hope they can get enough funding so we can have Langley > Vancouver and VCC > UBC open in 2025.

Then if they really have funding going start construction on the Hastings line in 2025.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by svlt

Skytrain expansion project moves closer thanks to UBC funds


G&M Paywall, but pertinent details below:

I don't want to abuse fair-use rules for quoting news outlets in full, therefore I will only post this one excerpt and let readers fill in the blanks.

...

The UBC Board of Governors passed a motion to support the line financially last April, saying it approved “the business strategy of exploring, along with external partners, a contribution towards the regional share of a rapid transit extension to accelerate its completion to the campus, provided the contribution does not affect funding for UBC’s academic mission.”

The board, which had previously said UBC did not have the resources to make the kind of financial contribution that, for example, Vancouver International Airport did for the Canada Line in Richmond, did not spell out an amount or a source for the money. The airport put in $300-million for the line, which has three stops on its property.

...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/a...roject-moves-closer-thanks-to-ubc-funds/


This is very good news for the project, the university, and the region. For years some people have rhetorically slagged UBC and its students, faculty, and staff for "wanting" SkyTrain to extend to the university.

"Why not just build more residences?" they said. "Let UBC put up money for the project if it's so important" they said.

Well, UBC is building thousands of new students residence beds [Exchange Residences, Pacific residences, and Brock Commons Phase 2] and steadily moving along with the build-out of Westbook Village and planning thousands of market and non-market homes in the new Stadium neighbourhood. With this news, the second piece is in place.

Frankly, $100M from a university shouldn't even be needed for such an obvious project such as this and it's a drop in the bucket on a $3.8B project, but it is politically expedient, lives up to the precedent of YVR and the Canada Line, and it will come from IICs, so it's not a Sophie's Choice of classrooms or SkyTrain.

[officedweller]

YVR paid $300M for its branch line with 3 stations.

UBC is projected to have 2 stations.
$100M seems a bit low even if the line is elevated through campus.

Hopefully the UBC line "goes straight down Broadway" to the south side of the Jericho Lands, rather than "swinging down to 4th Ave." to serve the north side of the Jericho Lands.

[logan5]

There has been much discussion of having the Broadway line swing down to the Jericho lands at Fourth Avenue to serve that development.

I want to see more details on this possible plan. Does this mean that the route would continue on 4th into UBC? Also, it would mean that you could take Skytrain to the beach, which is kinda cool.

With the combination of Skytrain and high density development happening in Jericho, there's going to be the mother of all nimby wars.

[ilikeredheads]

agree that 100m is kind of low considering distance from Arbutus to UBC. Feels more like a political/PR stunt to say "see, who says we dont' want to pay for it?"

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

seems weird to go all the way down to W 4th Ave. the Alma station should be at W 8th & Highbury to serve the development. that would be North enough.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by logan5

I want to see more details on this possible plan. Does this mean that the route would continue on 4th into UBC? Also, it would mean that you could take Skytrain to the beach, which is kinda cool.

With the combination of Skytrain and high density development happening in Jericho, there's going to be the mother of all nimby wars.

running under 4th Ave and Chancellor Blvd and then south would permit having 3 or more stations from Chan Center to Thunderbird Stadium under the East Mall or Main Mall alignments. this alignment and stations would mean the major station (and terminal) under the U. Blvd bus loop wouldn't be needed. by using several stations they could be 'normal' sized and help to disperse the subway traffic throughout length of UBC

UBC might treat travel within UBC similar to the YVR branch line configuration - with free transit between all the UBC stations

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

UBC might treat travel within UBC similar to the YVR branch line configuration - with free transit between all the UBC stations

The Upass that students have (and aren't supposed to sell) pretty much creates free transit between potential UBC stations.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

running under 4th Ave and Chancellor Blvd and then south would permit having 3 or more stations from Chan Center to Thunderbird Stadium under the East Mall or Main Mall alignments. this alignment and stations would mean the major station (and terminal) under the U. Blvd bus loop wouldn't be needed. by using several stations they could be 'normal' sized and help to disperse the subway traffic throughout length of UBC

It does cover more of the campus, but it also misses Lelem and Point Grey Village. And 3+ small stations are hardly going to be cheaper than one big one.

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

seems weird to go all the way down to W 4th Ave. the Alma station should be at W 8th & Highbury to serve the development. that would be North enough.

Problem there is that Alma's station needs to connect with the 7 and 32. What might happen is one at Alma, then one near the soccer field. Or Alma and Trimble (replacing Sasamat).

[GeeCee]

I really hope that the $100m isn't even worse than it sounds at first blush, eg $100m in land value for stations. But given the cost of the extension up to UBC, it really doesn't seem like much.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I really hope that the $100m isn't even worse than it sounds at first blush, eg $100m in land value for stations. But given the cost of the extension up to UBC, it really doesn't seem like much.

I mean the article mentions "money". I think land for the subway would be a given and not factor much in getting the extension.

[nname]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I really hope that the $100m isn't even worse than it sounds at first blush, eg $100m in land value for stations. But given the cost of the extension up to UBC, it really doesn't seem like much.

If the UBC money is considered "regional", then the Provincial and Federal government should top-off. If using the 20-40-40 rule, then that's equal to 500 million...?

[scryer]

No matter the amount of money, this is still a significant step towards building the UBC extension and I am all around happy for it. Sure, UBC probably could shell out more $$; I ain't no CEO but if I was in charge of dedicating money to projects, I would like to see the big picture on who else contributing before I do something crazy.

As long as UBC doesn't slap a "UBC Premium" fare on their extension, all is fine with me .