Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments - Page 349

azsunsurfer · #**6961** Posted **Aug 27, 2019, 4:08 PM**

We still have so much underutilized land along the existing line. Instead of chasing sprawl can we not just emphasize "growing" from the existing line?? 27 miles? That's longer than some European cities entire metropolitan areas. Can that be the catalyst of showing the benefits of future phases in the long run?

pbenjamin · #**6962** Posted **Aug 27, 2019, 4:11 PM**

I spoke with someone connected with one of the campaigns who claimed to have seen some polling which suggested that 105 would fall but 106 would be tight.

CrestedSaguaro · #**6963** Posted **Aug 27, 2019, 4:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

We still have so much underutilized land along the existing line. Instead of chasing sprawl can we not just emphasize "growing" from the existing line?? 27 miles? That's longer than some European cities entire metropolitan areas. Can that be the catalyst of showing the benefits of future phases in the long run?

How is running a line down South Central, Capital Mall and Metrocenter chasing spawl? Not sure what you are referring to here. These are all older developed and more urbanized areas. There's also not that much land along the current line that is underutilized and any land that is not yet developed has current plans for development (i.e. along Apache in Tempe and Mesa).

Also, 27 miles is not that much. In comparison, Salt Lake City has 45 miles of track, LA has 105 miles, Denver has 59 miles, San Diego has 54 miles, Atlanta has 48 miles...I could keep going on and on. We are at about half the distance of the average LRT system in the US.

On a side note, I spoke with a co-worker who lives in Ahwatukee just a few minutes ago and he voted no on 105. His reasoning? He's done the math and he would save money in gas and have about the same amount of travel time if he could park at Baseline and Central and take the LRT up Central to our building instead of taking I-10 the entire distance and sitting in mass rush hour traffic.

Obadno · #**6964** Posted **Aug 27, 2019, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

I spoke with someone connected with one of the campaigns who claimed to have seen some polling which suggested that 105 would fall but 106 would be tight.

Well prop 106 is about pension obligations. Most people either glaze over and couldn't care less about city pensions or they absolutely hate public pensions and probably want to contribute to their bankruptcy.

When it comes to 105 the main argument is that we need that money for "our roads" but most of our roads are just fine so I dont see it as a very compelling argument especially for people who came from towns with terrible road conditions.

The issue you'll have with 105 is people in the north and south of the city dont really care about light rail at all because they never use it. Even if they dont actively dislike it as a "waste" they simply dont care.

CrestedSaguaro · #**6965** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 2:45 AM**

Was at Burton tonight and the line was fairly busy all the way up till 7. Guess we'll find out soon. Fingers crossed!

Sunsfan87 · #**6966** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:08 AM**

Huge margin of victory for No on prop 105.

https://mobile.twitter.com/garrett_archer/status/1166546653890801669

TAZ4ate0 · #**6967** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:14 AM**

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/results-coming-in-for-city-of-phoenixs-light-rail-expansion-vote

Huge lead for the no vote on 105.

vwwolfe · #**6968** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:14 AM**

Not even close! Love it!

Ted Lyons · #**6969** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:15 AM**

Congratulations to y'all.

CrestedSaguaro · #**6970** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:17 AM**

106 getting destroyed by an even larger margin. I wasn't expecting that.

exit2lef · #**6971** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:34 AM**

Amazingly, the final results weren't at all far removed from those non-scientific polls posted earlier today. I began to think they were showing a trend when even the KTAR poll showed a 60-40 margin in favor of light rail expansion. That station leans right, and two of its biggest personalities, Jim Sharpe and Bruce St. James, have trashed light rail during the current campaign. If any poll would skew against light rail, I would have expected theirs to do so, but it didn't.

N830MH · #**6972** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 3:56 AM**

Here's the results:

https://www.phoenix.gov/Results?fbclid=I...fkDJvEuLjIVhSm2hjtMa5m-cGVg5yw5GY19hq5yg

You can see it now.

Here the news from AZCentral.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...ure-light-rail-where-to-vote/2088650001/

ASU Diablo · #**6973** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 4:23 AM**

TAZ4ate0 · #**6974** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 4:23 AM**

For the most part, I think people knew what they were voting for, despite the confusing wording.

N830MH · #**6975** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 5:27 AM**

Also, I post on Facebook page and I went on Building a better Phoenix. I told them "You lose! Bye-bye! Light rail extension will continue." and then they blocked me from Facebook page. No reason to blocked me.

combusean · #**6976** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 6:08 AM**

I'm proud of Phoenix for rejecting this hard and did not, at all expect this wonderful surprise. This won by a solid 11% more than T2050 won by and more than how Stanton won in 2015.

I suppose we'll see what's "driving" this in the coming days.

N830MH · #**6977** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 7:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean

I'm proud of Phoenix for rejecting this hard and did not, at all expect this wonderful surprise. This won by a solid 11% more than T2050 won by and more than how Stanton won in 2015.

I suppose we'll see what's "driving" this in the coming days.

I'm actually agree with you. We loves light rail very much. Hopefully they will continue extensions. We shall see what happens.

combusean · #**6978** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 7:48 AM**

The prevailing wisdom for *years* was that light rail and to a lesser extent public transit had to be packaged up like with Prop 400 and perhaps for T2050 with other modes for it to succeed. T2050 didn't, at all, include a groundbreaking amount of light rail but gave Phoenix a bus service is almost best-in-class and it didn't pass by any super-significant majority. At the end of the day nearly everyone wants better transport so we move forward.

I can't remember what poll, even however many years ago, said that voters pretty much wanted a 25-25-25-25 split between light rail, bus, roads, and freeways which has stuck with me since.

This victory so beautifully upends that and declares, without a doubt, that Phoenix wants its transit.

I hope planners at MAG, CoP Transit, et al take this to heart with the forever-pondered Prop 500 and every other measure they handle. I would almost go as far to say this is a vote for light rail and not so much for buses. This might just make sense for choice commuting voters.

azsunsurfer · #**6979** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 2:04 PM**

I had several acquaintances who are political operatives who spent this weekend with their groups canvasing neighborhoods with expensive looking reminder cards. I didn't see any mobilization like that from the "Yes" vote. It makes me wonder what dark money was behind the "No" campaign nor why there wasn't there any investigative curiosity...if the Koch's were behind the "Yes" campaign who was behind the "No"....perhaps mayor Gallego or Scott Smith will enjoy the kickbacks from the foreign entity who manufactures the trains

azsunsurfer · #**6980** Posted **Aug 28, 2019, 2:07 PM**

Plus the 4 lanes movement showed that it's easy to kill future extensions with a small mobilized minority. Perhaps that will be the strategy to kill future extensions...I doubt the State Capitol/ I-10 extension will face that much push back since those neighborhoods are sparsely populated and the work is less intrusive in nature expect for the 9-5 commuters.