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  #11701  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2019, 9:49 PM
corynv corynv is offline
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
I've seen this happen before both on the Confederation Line and in videos of other systems (like the TTC). Usually it's just a train advanced as much as it can without overrunning an occupied signal block/area.

One thing I saw yesterday that confused me was a Hurdman-bound train sounding its horn briefly as it was climbing to the curve towards Hurdman from the river and then slowing almost to a stop before continuing into the station like normal.
I know from the video O-train fans did in the simulator, when an operator fails to hit the awareness button (or whatever the proper name is) a horn sounds, as well as breaks are applied. Could be you saw something like that happening?
     
     
  #11702  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2019, 9:55 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by corynv View Post
I know from the video O-train fans did in the simulator, when an operator fails to hit the awareness button (or whatever the proper name is) a horn sounds, as well as breaks are applied. Could be you saw something like that happening?
If I'm not mistaken, there's a lot of metaphorical paperwork that would need to be done before the train could be put back into motion if that happened.

In this case the train never actually stopped. Maybe a wild animal ran across the tracks.
     
     
  #11703  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 12:09 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
So how does the contracting work in this case? They were awarded a DBFOM to provide a capability that replaced the buses. Now they can't?

I fail to see why progress payments should be awarded if they don't meet the contract.

Also, I'm curious what guarantee there is that they'll be able to get the trains up to 15/hr in the future. Is is the actual vehicles that are unreliable or the tracks, signalling,etc?
I have a feeling the "logistical issue" is that they only have 13 pairs with sufficient reliability.

Toronto manages 3 minute headway with it's antiquated system, so I don't think it's that
     
     
  #11704  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 12:51 AM
Corvulpes Corvulpes is offline
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a

Last edited by Corvulpes; Sep 4, 2019 at 6:59 PM.
     
     
  #11705  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 4:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I have a feeling the "logistical issue" is that they only have 13 pairs with sufficient reliability.

Toronto manages 3 minute headway with it's antiquated system, so I don't think it's that
This is the worst thing I've ever heard about LRT. Worse than sinkholes and malfunctioning trains. We're talking a significant reduction in system capacity. That means crush loading at launch. This will be the first time most Ottawa commuters will take the train, and their first impression is going to be terrible. The city is willing to condemn us all to cramped trains in a desperate attempt to save face. I know we've all been waiting for so long, and that the bus network is failing, but another two weeks isn't gonna make a difference.

We were promised 15 trains for morning rush, and now they've moved the goalposts all for the sake of avoiding the bad optics of another delay.

I certainly hope we don't give RTG another dime before they get that other train ready to go.
     
     
  #11706  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 4:12 AM
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^^^It really all depends how long it will actually take to bring it up to 15 trains in the AM peak. Don’t forget the plan is to overlap the existing bus service with the first few weeks of the Confederation Line. If they can get all the trains running before they stop the buses, then it shouldn’t be a problem. If it takes longer than that, then I agree we are in for a painful transition.
     
     
  #11707  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 10:42 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
^^^It really all depends how long it will actually take to bring it up to 15 trains in the AM peak. Don’t forget the plan is to overlap the existing bus service with the first few weeks of the Confederation Line. If they can get all the trains running before they stop the buses, then it shouldn’t be a problem. If it takes longer than that, then I agree we are in for a painful transition.
I'm pretty sure that's how the bets were hedged, they believe they can get to 15 before bus service ends
     
     
  #11708  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 12:09 PM
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Big day today! I'll be watching this space. I'm betting on a September 29 opening.
     
     
  #11709  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I'm pretty sure that's how the bets were hedged, they believe they can get to 15 before bus service ends
That's my guess. They have 13 reliable trains, and figured they can get to 15 in the next month or two, while ridership increases to its steady state as users transition.
     
     
  #11710  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 12:13 PM
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Anyone know if the announcement will be live-streamed? I sure hope so!
     
     
  #11711  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I'm pretty sure that's how the bets were hedged, they believe they can get to 15 before bus service ends
Fair enough, but they better be holding back some of the RSA payment until RTG demonstrates that will work with 15 trains.

I'm curious; if the most they are running with right now is 13 trains (26 vehicles)... is it always the same 26 vehicles that are being used right now?

That would indicate there are issues with the other 8 vehicles. But if they can only get to 13 trains no matter which vehicles are in use, wouldn't that point to an issue with the Thales system?
     
     
  #11712  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 1:45 PM
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Anyone know if the announcement will be live-streamed? I sure hope so!
No idea, but I'm sure we'll have lots of stuff to watch on Twitter as journalists take their first ride on the LRT!
     
     
  #11713  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 2:02 PM
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CBC reporting handover is happening today.
     
     
  #11714  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 2:12 PM
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Good piece on the tunnel by Jon Willing. Only significant omission is the shifting of Rideau Station east to William Street.

Quote:
How Ottawa ended up with a 2.5-km rail tunnel under its downtown

JON WILLING Updated: August 22, 2019
Postmedia



One tunnel for incoming trains and another for outgoing between the MSF Connector and the St. Laurent Station. JULIE OLIVER / POSTMEDIA

There were two ways the city could get electrified trains through the downtown core when it was planning its east-west light rail system more than 10 years ago: build rail lines on the road surfaces or dig a rail tunnel.

A 2007 report from a task force appointed by former mayor Larry O’Brien, whose council cancelled a north-south LRT contract, recommended a downtown rail tunnel as the best way to breathe life into the core and get rid of the daily traffic bottleneck.

Digging a tunnel through the core of the nation’s capital would be expensive, but there was potential to reduce the operating costs of OC Transpo by taking diesel-guzzling buses off the roads and removing any barriers to getting through a busy downtown at rush hour.

The 2008 transportation master plan included a downtown tunnel as the backbone for the “phase one, increment one” of an LRT system, part of a larger vision to expand rapid transit across Ottawa.

Eleven years later, the city has a 2.5-kilometre tunnel running through the downtown just blocks from Parliament Hill, and the city is preparing to remove hundreds of bus trips from the core, thanks to a $2.1-billion crosstown electrified rail line.

Going from west to east, trains will enter the tunnel after leaving Pimisi Station on LeBreton Flats. The west portal is just before Bronson Avenue and the tunnel runs a straight course under Queen Street, passing through Lyon and Parliament stations before making a slight turn north at Elgin Street. The tunnel dips under the Rideau Canal and then under Rideau Street to Rideau Station. After passing the Rideau Centre, the tunnel bends south and trains will exit the eastern portal just past Laurier Avenue at the University of Ottawa.

The downtown Ottawa transit tunnel project (the DOTT project, as it became known before the city branded it as the Confederation Line) originally called for a 3.2-kilometre tunnel with four underground LRT stations as part of the 12.5-kilometre, 13-station rail line.

Geotechnical studies in 2010 convinced the city to shorten the length of the tunnel in the area of the University of Ottawa, eventually leading to the final design of a 2.5-kilometre tunnel with an east portal short of uOttawa Station, which would be built above-ground rather than be carved out as a tunnel station.

Jim Watson took over as mayor on Dec. 1, 2010 as the city was trying to figure out how to thread a deep tunnel through the core while protecting its $2.1-billion estimate for the entire LRT line.

Armed with a mandate to keep annual property tax increases capped at 2.5 per cent, Watson’s first move was to get staff scrutinizing budget estimates for the LRT project and the larger transit program. About seven months after he moved into city hall, the city announced a new “better-value alignment” that shifted the tunnel north.

Originally, part of the tunnel was to be constructed under Albert Street with a diagonal alignment between Kent and Rideau streets. The city received criticism for planning a tunnel that would require lengthy descents and ascents for transit users between the surface and the underground stations. There was also the fear that private-sector construction bidders would be nervous about the financial risk in building such a deep tunnel (as much as 40 metres below the surface in the area of O’Connor Street) under a fixed-price contract.

Former councillor Peter Clark received credit for suggesting a shallower tunnel route under a city street. Running the tunnel under a narrow Queen Street corridor, now with a maximum depth of 16 metres in that O’Connor Street location, became a cheaper option. The city had a better shot to land a fixed-price construction contract to build increment one of LRT.

Of the $2.1-billion estimate for the entire LRT line, the city pegged the cost of tunnel construction at nearly $500 million. The contract competition began and the Rideau Transit Group (RTG) consortium of companies won the project with a council vote in December 2012.

RTG started mining the tunnel in fall 2013 using a method called sequential excavation. Twenty-metre-long “roadheaders” chipped away limestone, clay and sand as miners installed steel supports and sprayed concrete in behind the tunnelling machines, which advanced about three metres per day on average.

The average depth of the tunnel is 15 metres below the surface. When transit customers are waiting for trains at Rideau Station, they will be at the deepest part of the tunnel, 26.5 metres underground. Transporting people between the street level and the Rideau Station platform has required the installation of the longest escalator on a Canadian transit system. The escalator is 35.3 metres long.


First responders leave the LRT area at Laurier and Waller after a piece of shotcrete fell in the tunnel in Ottawa, November 10, 2016. JEAN LEVAC / POSTMEDIA NEWS

Construction of the tunnel was far from perfect.

A sinkhole appeared on Waller Street near Laurier Avenue, near the east tunnel portal, on Feb. 21, 2014.

And everyone knows about the massive sinkhole that opened above the tunnel on Rideau Street on June 8, 2016, swallowing a van and construction equipment.

On Nov. 10, 2016, three tunnel workers spraying concrete were trapped on a lift about 100 metres from the east portal. Then, a crane flipped over trying to lift a truck at the east tunnel portal on April 26, 2017.

No serious injuries were reported in the mishaps, but the Ontario Ministry of Labour has been keeping tabs on construction. At one point, the local labour council wasn’t convinced that the tunnel project was safe for workers.

Inspection reports on the tunnel construction revealed there were problems with some of the concrete pours and deficiencies with the waterproofing. Other reports described clogged pipes in at least one tunnel station.

Now that RTG has built the underground rail, its affiliate, Rideau Transit Maintenance, will look after the tunnel under a 30-year maintenance contract with the city.
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...al&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1566496378
     
     
  #11715  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
CBC reporting handover is happening today.
     
     
  #11716  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Fair enough, but they better be holding back some of the RSA payment until RTG demonstrates that will work with 15 trains.

I'm curious; if the most they are running with right now is 13 trains (26 vehicles)... is it always the same 26 vehicles that are being used right now?

That would indicate there are issues with the other 8 vehicles. But if they can only get to 13 trains no matter which vehicles are in use, wouldn't that point to an issue with the Thales system?
It could point to Thales, but our signalling system is off the shelf and commonly used throughout the world, unlike our brand new design trains.

I think it's going to be the same 13 pairs, and they better have held off on full payment
     
     
  #11717  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 5:05 PM
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  #11718  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 5:06 PM
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From Joanne Schnurr's Twitter:

"Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and city councillor Eli El-Chantiry on the LRT as we learn what date the Confederation Line will launch. “it feels like Christmas morning” Watson says. ⁦@ctvottawa⁩"


https://twitter.com/JoanneCTV/status/1164946791260925955
     
     
  #11719  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 5:13 PM
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Radio-Canada's Gilles Taillon has a video of everyone crammed in the double decker bus.

https://twitter.com/GillesTaillon/status/1164941926954676226

And CTV's Joanne Schnurr's video of the train ride.

https://twitter.com/JoanneCTV/status/1164947358922285056

Maybe taking the DD to Blair before hoping on the train was a strategic move by the City; it shows how much more spacious the trains are. Of course, in the big picture, that's irrelevant considering OC will probably unload 10 bus fulls (or around that number) on one train. Loading and uploading will still be much quicker and easier with trains thanks to the 14 doors vs the 1 or 2 doors per bus.
     
     
  #11720  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 5:23 PM
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They aren't going to discuss at all about how they are launching with less capacity. Awesome.....
     
     
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