DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I think Lennar owns that lot. I might be wrong. They have three 16-19 story apartments in Golden Triangle in the planning phase if I recall correctly. I'll be interested to see if any get started this cycle. Golden Triangle has been booming, which I imagine is driven by the fact that it has some of the most expensive rents in the entire city.

Correctamundo!

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...denver.html?iana=hpmvp_den_news_headline

A 2.5-acre parking lot next to the former Evans School in the Golden Triangle neighborhood could be the future home of a 19-story apartment building, according to a concept plan submitted to the city on Thursday.

Lennar Multifamily Communities (LMC), a real estate investment arm formed by homebuilder Lennar Corp. (NYSE: LEN), is considering building a 479-unit residential development at the corner of 11th Avenue and North Bannock Street.

It's a bit complicated but that happens

Both the parking lot and the Evans School are owned by the Eber family through Continuance LLC. The former school has sat largely unused for four decades.

The Denver Post previously reported the Eber family is in the process of selling the school and adjacent parking lots to LMC, which would then sell the Evans School to a team composed of City Street Investors and Columbia Group.

Initial proposal:

The concept plan estimates the value of the project, which would feature 715,000 square feet of new space, at $160 million. LMC is proposing 582 underground parking spaces to go along with a mix of micro, studio and one- and two-bedroom units, as well as an outdoor pool and deck on the 19th floor.

Afaik, LMC has their own funding previously raised through a multi-$billion offering.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Correctamundo!

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...denver.html?iana=hpmvp_den_news_headline

It's a bit complicated but that happens

Initial proposal:


Afaik, LMC has their own funding previously raised through a multi-$billion offering.

Thanks for the info! The building design is safe but I'll take it, especially if it comes with micro-units. Definitely better than the eyeball cancer which is Civic Lofts.

[Fritzdude]

I don’t think denverinfill has posted anything since early July. That’s quite a hiatus. 😞

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I think Lennar owns that lot. I might be wrong. They have three 16-19 story apartments in Golden Triangle in the planning phase if I recall correctly. I'll be interested to see if any get started this cycle. Golden Triangle has been booming, which I imagine is driven by the fact that it has some of the most expensive rents in the entire city.

GT is such an enigma to me. It ha some of the best quality builds from the current cycle but, for me, is far and away the most uninteresting downtown-adjacent neighborhood. I really don't get what drives GT for both renters and developers -- there is no transit. No interesting retail or restaurants. Poor access to highways. Crime rates are high (though maybe exaggerated by the justice dragging everything down). Whats so great?

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

GT is such an enigma to me. It ha some of the best quality builds from the current cycle but, for me, is far and away the most uninteresting downtown-adjacent neighborhood. I really don't get what drives GT for both renters and developers -- there is no transit. No interesting retail or restaurants. Poor access to highways. Crime rates are high (though maybe exaggerated by the justice dragging everything down). Whats so great?

I lived in GT for 3 years about 5 years ago. That was before the current development boom so it was even more sleepy than it is now. But honestly that was the nice part about it. You could still get downtown easily and while transit isn’t great there is frequent bus service on Broadway/Lincoln, and quick access to Lodo/Union Station on the Cherry Creek trail. And when friends visited they could find street parking which is a rarity in other urban neighborhoods. It has a higher end urban residential feel.

I imagine you’ll see more restaurants pop up as the area gets denser, hopefully more along Broadway which is still pretty dead outside of Broadway Market and a few bars/clubs on weekend nights around 11th. There are some gems though tucked away in there though like Parsley, Cuba Cuba, Leven Deli, Melita’s, Di Franco’s and Amethyst Coffee.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by BG918

I lived in GT for 3 years about 5 years ago. That was before the current development boom so it was even more sleepy than it is now. But honestly that was the nice part about it. You could still get downtown easily and while transit isn’t great there is frequent bus service on Broadway/Lincoln, and quick access to Lodo/Union Station on the Cherry Creek trail. And when friends visited they could find street parking which is a rarity in other urban neighborhoods. It has a higher end urban residential feel.

I imagine you’ll see more restaurants pop up as the area gets denser, hopefully more along Broadway which is still pretty dead outside of Broadway Market and a few bars/clubs on weekend nights around 11th. There are some gems though tucked away in there though like Parsley, Cuba Cuba, Leven Deli, Melita’s, Di Franco’s and Amethyst Coffee.

A bunch of cool restaurants isn't going to do much for a neighborhood, if soon most the people in that neighborhood will be spending all their income on rent/mortgage, student loans and credit card debt? Americans are now taking on new credit card debt at near record pace, in order to maintain their lifestyles amidst rapidly rising costs of living pared with average annual salary increases barely over the rate of inflation. Unless we implement a universal basic income to supplement everyone's income, the entire economy will come crashing down. And it will be primarily caused by mega property management companies who have penny pinched every last bit they could from Americans. What vitalizes neighborhoods is residents with disposable income.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

A bunch of cool restaurants isn't going to do much for a neighborhood, if soon must the people in that neighborhood will be spending all their income on rent/mortgage, student loans and credit card debt? Americans are now taking on new credit card debt at near record pace, in order to maintain their lifestyles amidst rapidly rising costs of living pared with average annual salary increases barely over the rate of inflation. Unless we implement a universal basic income to supplement everyone's income, the entire economy will come crashing down. And it will be primarily caused by mega property management companies who have penny pinched every last bit they could from Americans. What vitalizes neighborhoods is residents with disposable income.

Not sure where you source your points but there's a ton of BS out there. The so-called perma-bears (and Gold Bugs) are typically on the "Right." The more socialistic views obviously come from the "Left."

You might be well-served from more neutral sites or writers who don't have an obvious political agenda.

One of my favorite reads is Tim Mullaney who writes for MarketWatch.

Opinion: No, Sen. Warren: There’s no crash coming
July 23, 2019 By TIM MULLANEY - MarketWatch

Consumer debt loads are large — but consumer debt burdens are unusually light. Federal Reserve data show clearly that the percentage of monthly income going for debt service is nearly as low as it has ever been — and not rising materially.

The fact is, as long as rates are low, consumers can afford the borrowing they are doing — readily. And they are doing less — consumers are closing credit-card accounts, not opening them, and home-equity line of credit balances are low and falling.

Via MarketWatch

Opinion: A student loan plan that could actually work
July 31, 2019 By TIM MULLANEY - MarketWatch

How much call on our sympathy do college graduates deserve — especially when the median student-loan payment is $222 a month, according to the Web site StudentLoanHero.com? That’s comfortably below the median $2,500-a-month wage premium that college grads command,

So not all debt needs to be cancelled — for most, student debt is a rational investment made by adults. Warren arguing that a median borrower with a $200,000 income needs any help begs disbelief.

With respect to student loans which is worthy of discussion Mullaney breaks out the various slices and what are legitimate concerns and not. There are groups who are over-burdened which Tim also discusses.

New Fed survey finds Americans in better financial shape as expansion continues
May 23, 2019 By STEVE GOLDSTEIN - MarketWatch

A new survey of American household finances finds economic well-being is getting better, despite a flurry of headlines to the contrary.

The Federal Reserve said Thursday that 61% of those surveyed for its annual report on the economic well-being of U.S. households said they could pay an unexpected expense of $400 with either cash, savings or a credit card paid off at the next statement. That’s up from just half in 2013.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

A bunch of cool restaurants isn't going to do much for a neighborhood, if soon must the people in that neighborhood will be spending all their income on rent/mortgage, student loans and credit card debt? Americans are now taking on new credit card debt at near record pace, in order to maintain their lifestyles amidst rapidly rising costs of living pared with average annual salary increases barely over the rate of inflation. Unless we implement a universal basic income to supplement everyone's income, the entire economy will come crashing down. And it will be primarily caused by mega property management companies who have penny pinched every last bit they could from Americans. What vitalizes neighborhoods is residents with disposable income.

GT isn't meant for the average American. It's meant for the those in the top quintile who can afford such a rent level while still having disposable income. If a household isn't pulling ~$118K, they probably shouldn't be in the area.

[SnyderBock]

Those are definitely not "neutral" sources. The data is being released by the major credit card companies themselves, says Americans are taking on new debt at near record paces. It is in their quarterly reports. There is no room for interpretation, it is simply a fact. There are countless sources reporting on this data.

Here are some additional sources (but feel free to also read the quarterly reports from all major credit card companies):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...usg=AOvVaw17XUnalvp9gIt_cVv__2pd&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...usg=AOvVaw031qG988gfJk983UUaBJ_a&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...usg=AOvVaw2s160NvUPQgwto1ip_gk28&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...gQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0nDYryJr08aON83DcMaW9Q

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...gQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2e-CwQyZdhgkJT_yubnlRu

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...usg=AOvVaw3PmSOMDd3ltUQ-b8C4Eg1Z&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...usg=AOvVaw3N3n5ob_HNObZO1YvEyiLA&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...gQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0ZscjcGeD11ZeOEqP37QkZ

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

GT isn't meant for the average American. It's meant for the those in the top quintile who can afford such a rent level while still having disposable income. If a household isn't pulling ~$118K, they probably shouldn't be in the area.

Denver has built so many swanky hipster pads, loaded with features like high end kitchens, work out rooms, pools, dog walks, and fire pits that sometimes the media creates the impression that it's all there is.

But a quick search on Zillow for rentals under $1200 shows hundreds of units available.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/?s...ys"}},"isListVisible":true,"mapZoom":11}

Sure, you may not get the latest GT Highrise like what you find at Parq on Speer with keyless entries, a pool deck with fire pits, and 3,000 SFT dog walk on the third floor.



https://www.5280.com/2019/03/a-smart-high-rise-community-debuts-in-golden-triangle/

Still, there's "affordable" housing to be found in our humble city, with hundreds of properties for 1200 per month or less.

[TakeFive]

SnyderBock... Per your Wallet Hub link:

Although we started 2019 owing more than $1 trillion in credit card debt, Americans repaid $38.2 billion in credit card debt during Q1 2019 – the fourth-largest quarterly payoff ever.

But Wallet Hub predicts an overall increase of $70 billion or 7% for 2019. TIME TO PANIC.

I think you missed the difference between total debt and debt burden as a percentage of disposable income.

For example if someone goes out and buys a home for the 1st time their debt will skyrocket; the key question is did they qualify and can they handle the payment? Same if someone goes out and buys a new car.

In any case, quarterly or short term (click bait) headlines have been around since Hector was pup. But many live to worry so suit yourself.

[tommyboy733]

Junction25, Warehouse > Office Conversion

IMG_20190820_094853688_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

~3200 Brighton, another industrial > office conversion. Yumm look at the brick!

IMG_20190820_110233075_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

Rev360. Elevator cores are topped out

IMG_20190820_101914521_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

IMG_20190820_095354094_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

IMG_20190820_095434864 by Tom Conley, on Flickr


The HUB Phase II is topped out.

IMG_20190820_095832505_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

This project is on a sliver between Blake and the RR tracks, just north of 35th Street (which ends at Blake). I believe its five story condo but can't remember the details. (NOT the big res tower one block away with the crane, working on the first basement/ground level, couldn't get a satisfactory pic)

IMG_20190820_100750103 by Tom Conley, on Flickr

This is the 32nd- 33rd & larimer ish full block resdiential building. The brick is very attractive, some ornamentation. I think this will be an attractive project. The parking partially covered or descreet and from the angles I saw. It has a good mass with different setbacks to break it up, not a "landscraper", etc. I think its turning out to one of the better residential projects by appearance.

IMG_20190820_101437511_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

WTC..... ***crickets****


IMG_20190820_095820309_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

A lot of density going up around the station! Sooooo many other residential projects.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by tommyboy733

RiNo Update:
A lot of density going up around the station! Sooooo many other residential projects.

Gratitude for the impressive photo update tour.

[bulldurhamer]

looks like the site across from wtc is fenced off and moving ahead.

https://businessden.com/2018/03/05/proposed-rino-development-includes-hotel-apartment-combo/

[BG918]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

GT isn't meant for the average American. It's meant for the those in the top quintile who can afford such a rent level while still having disposable income. If a household isn't pulling ~$118K, they probably shouldn't be in the area.

A lot of tech jobs being created in Denver pay that or more for a single person. Add a partner/spouse also in the professional sector and you quickly get to $200k+. There are LOTS of these types living in urban Denver, and they are the ones filling these new highrises.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by BG918

A lot of tech jobs being created in Denver pay that or more for a single person. Add a partner/spouse also in the professional sector and you quickly get to $200k+. There are LOTS of these types living in urban Denver, and they are the ones filling these new highrises.

For sure. Those are the top quintile earners and 20% of 300K (approximate number of Denver households) does make for lots of potential occupants.

It does indicate that Denver's urban environment is likely going to end up as an upper middle-class playground, as Bunt has derided, but that's the way things are trending and a downswing in that trend isn't likely to be too dramatic.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by tommyboy733

Junction25, Warehouse > Office Conversion

IMG_20190820_094853688_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

~3200 Brighton, another industrial > office conversion. Yumm look at the brick!

IMG_20190820_110233075_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

Rev360. Elevator cores are topped out

IMG_20190820_101914521_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

IMG_20190820_095354094_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

IMG_20190820_095434864 by Tom Conley, on Flickr


The HUB Phase II is topped out.

IMG_20190820_095832505_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

This project is on a sliver between Blake and the RR tracks, just north of 35th Street (which ends at Blake). I believe its five story condo but can't remember the details. (NOT the big res tower one block away with the crane, working on the first basement/ground level, couldn't get a satisfactory pic)

IMG_20190820_100750103 by Tom Conley, on Flickr

This is the 32nd- 33rd & larimer ish full block resdiential building. The brick is very attractive, some ornamentation. I think this will be an attractive project. The parking partially covered or descreet and from the angles I saw. It has a good mass with different setbacks to break it up, not a "landscraper", etc. I think its turning out to one of the better residential projects by appearance.

IMG_20190820_101437511_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

WTC..... ***crickets****


IMG_20190820_095820309_HDR by Tom Conley, on Flickr

A lot of density going up around the station! Sooooo many other residential projects.

Thanks a lot for the pictures! I wish there was more of that ok this thread. I'll try to do my part.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by BG918

A lot of tech jobs being created in Denver pay that or more for a single person. Add a partner/spouse also in the professional sector and you quickly get to $200k+. There are LOTS of these types living in urban Denver, and they are the ones filling these new highrises.

So you think Amacon's timing is good?

[SnyderBock]

I find it interesting that the Zillow search doesn't show hardly any results at $1200 or less, in any of the Neighborhoods that I would ever choose to live in. Why isn't there a mix of income levels in all neighborhoods? Why do rentals at $1200 or less have to be segregated and concentrated in certain pockets nowhere near train stations? I think they severely overbuilt on luxury rental units and now the people who can afford those are buying homes in the suburbs. The people forced to live in shitty parts of the city, away from train stations and with long commutes to work are also forced to own cars. So you have to add car ownership onto rent. If these $1200 a month units were concentrated near train stations, they wouldn't have to own a car at all. Instead, the people who can afford to live near train stations, hardly even use the trains, because they own fancy BMW's, Mercedes and Crossovers. If you can afford to live near a train station, you don't need to. Furthermore, all these people renting $1200 apartments, are stuck renting, because there is a severe shortage of condo stock in the sub 250k range, which would be their price points.

Add to this the fact that the CEO's of Chase, Capital One and Discover have announced the Americans are accumulating credit card debt at rapid levels, in order to maintain their current lifestyles, so as a result they are closing inactive accounts +so they do not become active), slowing way down in credit line increases and becoming far more struck about who they approve for new lines of credit.

Plus there is that darn recession we are headed straight into. Trades wars cause recession (see warning from our government officials about the results of the last great trade war and the ensuing recession). Short term interest has eclipsed 10 year Treasury notes. A decades long run of wage growth less than half the rate of rises in cost of living and barely above the rate of inflation. Overbuilt market of Luxury homes and apartments and a shortage of affordable housing. Plus a slowing job growth sector that is about to have tens of millions of positions replaced by AI and automation, over the next decade.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist or strike fear into anyone's hearts. I have always been gifted with seeing the big picture and time and time again, everything ends up playing out just as I for saw. It is not mystical or supernatural. It is projections and forecasts produced by my brain analyzing all available data and variables, then constructing multiple sinarios that might play out, then predicting probabilities for each.

If we do not implement a universal basic income very swiftly (by Washington standards), then we will face the potential of another great depression. Especially if the trade wars persist much longer.

[vblack]

Downtown Denver parking lot eyed for 81-story building sells to different developer