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  #8601  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2019, 5:00 AM
BillinGlendaleCA BillinGlendaleCA is offline
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
I was referring to it as being a place where a lot more ppl didn't just visit during the day, but also lived around....or wanted to call home. there was more foot traffic in dt over 80 yrs ago on streets like broadway & spring....that has yet to be duplicated in 2019. But at the end of the day more of those ppl....esp the ones who wanted a more urban yet also fashionable way of life....would leave dt.

this is a view from the south side of dt....there are still some homes mixed in with commercial or industrial. But unlike what's becoming truer today, what's now south pk wasn't the type of area that early 1900s versions of today's hipsters would want to have as their home address.



ethereal_reality


dtla went downhill faster & further than more of the centers of cities like SF, chicago, nyc....certainly major cities in Europe....because from the beginning it never was put together to appeal to demanding residents....the type of ppl who started fleeing westward starting over 90 yrs ago. Not just daytime visitors, but full time residents.

other cities like tokyo had to be almost completely destroyed during world war II to come closer to being a place abandoned by ppl at night, if not during the day too.


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Many of those cities developed at a time when transportation was difficult, so they had to live close to where they worked. LA developed much later and in the early 20th century, due to transportation advancements(the automobile and a well developed urban transportation system like the red and yellow cars), people could live further away. In addition to the growth of LA coinciding with improvements to transportation, LA's geography lends itself to sprawl, there's not a lot of natural impediments(no lakes, no bay and no large rivers). We have the Santa Monicas, but the valley didn't really develop until the post-war period. So what happened with downtown is that it was expanding rapidly commercially and it also became economically advantageous to spread out. While folk didn't actually live in downtown, they did work, shop and it was the hub of entertainment well into the 1950's.
     
     
  #8602  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2019, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BillinGlendaleCA View Post
While folk didn't actually live in downtown, they did work, shop and it was the hub of entertainment well into the 1950's.
that's the important distinction between the past & today....ppl not just visiting dt during the day to shop or do business, but also as a place they were in 24/7/365 as their residence. most of the major cities of the world always had that....& since they held onto it, they never fell apart at all or as much as dtla did starting over 90 yrs ago....which grew worse & worse from the late 1940s, 1950s up until not too many yrs ago.

in this old film of LA, places that could be considered appealing as a residence were 'bungalows'.....burban in form....not something like the new park fifth bldg across from pershing sq.

some have said that fwys started the trend of ppl fleeing from LA's center. but notice how when streets like broadway & 7th were full of ppl, transit in the form of the big red cars....which were like an older version of today's fwys....already provided a way for ppl to get out of dtla asap after their day was over.

If dtla had way more nice areas for ppl to live in....even bungalows....it wouldn't have taken over 70 yrs to start gaining some life again.


Video Link


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  #8603  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2019, 9:19 PM
BillinGlendaleCA BillinGlendaleCA is offline
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
that's the important distinction between the past & today....ppl not just visiting dt during the day to shop or do business, but also as a place they were in 24/7/365 as their residence. most of the major cities of the world always had that....& since they held onto it, they never fell apart at all or as much as dtla did starting over 90 yrs ago....which grew worse & worse from the late 1940s, 1950s up until not too many yrs ago.

in this old film of LA, places that could be considered appealing as a residence were 'bungalows'.....burban in form....not something like the new park fifth bldg across from pershing sq.

some have said that fwys started the trend of ppl fleeing from LA's center. but notice how when streets like broadway & 7th were full of ppl, transit in the form of the big red cars....which were like an older version of today's fwys....already provided a way for ppl to get out of dtla asap after their day was over.

If dtla had way more nice areas for ppl to live in....even bungalows....it wouldn't have taken over 70 yrs to start gaining some life again.


Video Link


Video Link
My point was that this occurred because of when LA developed from a small village into a major city. Folk could easily live in other places than the central city and there was an economic incentive to do so. People in the east and in Europe already lived in established communities in the central business districts in their home cities.

Until this morning and coming across this video,
Video Link

I didn't realize how strong those incentives were. People were not only encouraged by commercial encroachment into their neighborhoods in DTLA but were actively encouraged to leave.
     
     
  #8604  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BillinGlendaleCA View Post
Folk could easily live in other places than the central city and there was an economic incentive to do so.
Aesthetic too.


Video Link



dtla decades ago didn't have to look like a paris or london. But how about something a bit better than Modesto or fresno?
     
     
  #8605  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2019, 11:43 PM
BillinGlendaleCA BillinGlendaleCA is offline
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Aesthetic too.


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dtla decades ago didn't have to look like a paris or london. But how about something a bit better than Modesto or fresno?
My point is the aesthetic followed the economic. The reason you had boarding houses in the former grand mansions on Bunker Hill is the folk who built those places left, for economic as well as having a more suburban lifestyle. They moved initially to Angelino Heights and West Adams, the Huntingtons and Janns and the automobile encouraged them to move further out.
     
     
  #8606  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2019, 3:38 AM
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My point is the aesthetic followed the economic. The reason you had boarding houses in the former grand mansions on Bunker Hill is the folk who built those places left, for economic as well as having a more suburban lifestyle.
I'd say it was a combo of the two, with both the aesthetic being hurt by the economic, and the economic being hurt by the aesthetic....or a chicken or egg dilemma. what came first? not enough properties being nicely developed in the first place, so that eventually chased out the more demanding ppl? Or not enough money being invested in dt to attract the more demanding ppl?

You can see that even in the late 1880s bunker hill wasn't a mainly impressive area....there were some cheaper bldgs mixed in with some of the victorians....



A view of Hill Street (foreground) with the eastern slope
of Bunker Hill behind. ca.1890 (Photo courtesy of the
Los Angeles Public Library Photo Collection)

Quote:
And though Bunker Hill had some two decades as the city's crown jewel, the neighborhood slowly grew more crowded (and undesirable) with apartment buildings and commercial development moving in. The wealthy elite of Los Angeles made their exodus to more remote and exclusive neighborhoods like Angeleno Heights, West Adams, and Westlake through the turn of the 20th century.

With the money now gone, Bunker Hill shifted from being an upper-class enclave to a white-collar one, and, eventually, to a working-class neighborhood. For the early years of the 20th century, Bunker Hill remained a vibrant, flourishing community. That would start to change in 1910s as the hill became an impediment to westward expansion and the free movement of automobiles. The 3rd Street tunnel already bore through the hill in 1901, and talk of completely leveling Bunker Hill grew in the following years.

Raymond Chandler makes note of the neighborhood's dark years in his 1942 novel, The High Window.

Bunker Hill is old town, lost town, shabby town, crook town. Once, very long ago, it was the choice residential district of the city, and there are still standing a few of the jigsaw Gothic mansions with wide porches and walls covered with round-end shingles and full corner bay windows with spindle turrets. They are all rooming houses now, their parquetry floors are scratched and worn through the once glossy finish and the wide sweeping staircases are dark with time and with cheap varnish laid on over generations of dirt.

since this thread is devoted to new devlpt, I'll slip this in here.....another example of dtla today being a much more complete community than it was over 70 yrs ago....


Quote:

www.terasakibudokan.org




A crowd of approximately 150 gathered below as crane operator Ricardo Alamillo guided the beam into place atop the gymnasium on Los Angeles Street, and they cheered as “We Are the Champions” by Queen played.

The “topping-off” ceremony was a chance to celebrate the fact that the construction phase on the gymnasium is past the halfway point; the facility is scheduled to open in early spring 2020. Ryan Lee, the project manager for the gymnasium, explained its significance.

“It signifies the last steel beam being raised to the highest point in construction on the structure. This is more than just a gym, this is more than just a facility. The Terasaki Budokan is really a testament to what we can accomplish when we all work together as a community,” said Lee. “When its doors open in spring of 2020, it will show the vibrance and energy that is Little Tokyo.”

Former City Councilmember Jan Perry was recognized for her pivotal role securing the ground lease on the property. She proclaimed that the Terasaki Budokan will be a “legacy project” for Little Tokyo.

“This is a tribute to the resilience of the people who started it, the fact that most of them are still here and that will translate into something that spans the generations,” Perry said.

The facility will feature a two-court gymnasium, an outdoor plaza with a stage, a community room, a toddlers’ playground and a community garden.

“I really think this will provide opportunities and memories for the next generations of youth. Not only Japanese American youth but youth here in Little Tokyo and the surrounding Downtown neighborhood,” Lee said.

^ In many ways, dtla today is better than it has ever been. however, mass homelessness, lots of piles of garbage & ppl using the sidewalks as toilets are offsetting that. so it's the best of times, it's the worst of times.

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  #8607  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2019, 5:07 AM
BillinGlendaleCA BillinGlendaleCA is offline
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
I'd say it was a combo of the two, with both the aesthetic being hurt by the economic, and the economic being hurt by the aesthetic....or a chicken or egg dilemma. what came first? not enough properties being nicely developed in the first place, so that eventually chased out the more demanding ppl? Or not enough money being invested in dt to attract the more demanding ppl?

You can see that even in the late 1880s bunker hill wasn't a mainly impressive area....there were some cheaper bldgs mixed in with some of the victorians....



A view of Hill Street (foreground) with the eastern slope
of Bunker Hill behind. ca.1890 (Photo courtesy of the
Los Angeles Public Library Photo Collection)




since this thread is devoted to new devlpt, I'll slip this in here.....another example of dtla today being a much more complete community than it was over 70 yrs ago....





^ In many ways, dtla today is better than it has ever been. however, mass homelessness, lots of piles of garbage & ppl using the sidewalks as toilets are offsetting that. so it's the best of times, it's the worst of times.

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A couple of things, I think you're not understanding about what I mean about economic forces. What I'm talking about is the most valued use of a piece of land. Folk who lived on Bunker Hill sold because the use as single family residential was not economically the best use of the land, people would offer them enough money to move elsewhere. As far as aesthetic in 1880 Los Angeles, there weren't much, LA was a backwater village of less than 12,000 people. As far as now being the best it's been...downtown was pretty much the center of Los Angeles for shopping, nightlife and business in the 1920's and 1930's. What I was trying to point out earlier is that comparing older cities and their development to a new city like Los Angeles is comparing apples and oranges. That said, downtown is much more vibrant that it was when I was working down there in the 1980's and 1990's and I'm excited by the progress. Isn't why we're all here?
     
     
  #8608  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 7:07 PM
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It Lives!!!! (we new it was slowly going, but at least now its being acknowledged)

From UrbanizeLA

Oceanwide Plaza Shows Signs of Life
https://urbanize.la/post/oceanwide-plaza-shows-signs-life





Quote:
Despite its well-documented struggles, signs or progress are now clearly visible at the beleagured Oceanwide Plaza development in Downtown Los Angeles.

The project, which spans a full city block across the street from Staples Center, consists of three towers which will contain 504 condominiums, a 184-room hotel, and a 150,000-square-foot retail podium. The CallisonRTKL-designed development will be wrapped by an LED ribbon stretching the full block of Figueroa Street between 11th and 12th Streets.

Work at Oceanwide Plaza came to an abrupt halt in January 2019, not long after the project became embroiled in an FBI corruption probe of Los Angeles city officials. This followed months of rumored cost overruns that had seen Oceanwide blow past its original $1 billion budget.

Current activities at the site are limited to its largest building, a 49-story edifice 11th and Figueroa Streets which will house a Park Hyatt hotel and branded condominiums. In recent weeks, crews have started assembling the frame of the tower's architectural crown, which will be illuminated at night. Additionally, metal structures have been installed at the building's podium to support the proposed LED screen.

A timeline for completion of the hotel tower, as well as the two condo buildings and retail podium, remains unclear.
With that part of the crown/parapet in place, that brings the tower to its final reported height of 677'.
This thing being completed will be a game changer in South Park.
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  #8609  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 9:15 PM
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Does Circa next door have any retail tenants yet?
     
     
  #8610  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 9:42 PM
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Does Circa next door have any retail tenants yet?
Supposedly they do...they are supposed to be making a big announcement soon.
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  #8611  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2019, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BillinGlendaleCA View Post
In addition to the growth of LA coinciding with improvements to transportation, LA's geography lends itself to sprawl, there's not a lot of natural impediments(no lakes, no bay and no large rivers). We have the Santa Monicas, but the valley didn't really develop until the post-war period. So what happened with downtown is that it was expanding rapidly commercially and it also became economically advantageous to spread out. While folk didn't actually live in downtown, they did work, shop and it was the hub of entertainment well into the 1950's.
I recall a person saying to me several yrs ago that if dtla had been near the ocean, it wouldn't have lost so much of its original popularity. That made me think of areas like pasadena, even further from the coastline than dt is. Yet although pasadena went through its own dry spell over the past 60 yrs, its decline was no where as extreme as that of dtla's.

If dt had seen more of this type of improvement since the 1950s, it wouldn't have fallen down so far, regardless of geography, the general economy, ppl's preferences in lifestyle, transit or fwys.


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  #8612  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 4:00 AM
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Heres hoping that theres a budget for the wrap around screen for Oceanwide plaza for the fig/12th corner. Really liked that part of the project.
     
     
  #8613  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 4:05 AM
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Heres hoping that theres a budget for the wrap around screen for Oceanwide plaza for the fig/12th corner. Really liked that part of the project.
They still need to build the loopy part if they wanna finish wrapping the screens all around the base
     
     
  #8614  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 2:58 PM
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RE: Oceanwide Video Screens

It would not surprise me if they start installing the screens right up to where the construction is currently idle across the street from Circa and light them up to start generating income stream. The loop part can be added later.
     
     
  #8615  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 1:05 AM
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^^^ But in true LA form, that either never happens or if it does, its 20 years later when no one cares.

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They still need to build the loopy part if they wanna finish wrapping the screens all around the base
Exactly.
     
     
  #8616  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:55 PM
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Civic Center Subway Stop

Does the city own the parking lot at the Civic Center Red Line Station? Any plans for this last parcel of undeveloped land to finally be developed?
     
     
  #8617  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 7:56 AM
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The new V DTLA restaurant at 515 W. 7th St. opens on September 13th. Upstairs is 7Grand Whiskey Bar.









Last edited by pwright1; Aug 29, 2019 at 3:18 AM.
     
     
  #8618  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 1:46 AM
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Is that correct address?
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  #8619  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 3:00 AM
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No, it's on 7th between grand and olive across from Bottega Louis and in the former Mas Malo space
     
     
  #8620  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 3:20 AM
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Why I put 5th, I have no idea. It's 7th Street.
     
     
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