Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I'm calling BS. I have biked right next to the train line between Lees and UOttawa. The noise from the trains is nothing compared to the diesel buses. If it's really that much of an issue, then hopefully someday we can just bury the line, and kill two birds with one stone, as we'd reconnect a split neighbourhood.

It is and it isn't. Apparently it's only people on higher floors in high rises that are complaining. In my earlier days, I used to live in a 16th floor apartment, it's amazing how much noisier things are up high compared to ground level. If there was a street sweeper within 2 kilometres you could hear it. You do get used to it though, but this sound is probably new and different to them.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

It is and it isn't. Apparently it's only people on higher floors in high rises that are complaining. In my earlier days, I used to live in a 16th floor apartment, it's amazing how much noisier things are up high compared to ground level. If there was a street sweeper within 2 kilometres you could hear it. You do get used to it though, but this sound is probably new and different to them.

The noise is greater on the upper floors of tall buildings.Yet, Ottawa's TOD plans encourages the construction of tall buildings near the LRT. The Citizens of Ottawa will have to get used to the sound of living in a large city.

[PHrenetic]

re: Noisy LRT has Mechanicsville residents asking the city to hush it

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I'm calling BS. I have biked right next to the train line between Lees and UOttawa. The noise from the trains is nothing compared to the diesel buses. If it's really that much of an issue, then hopefully someday we can just bury the line, and kill two birds with one stone, as we'd reconnect a split neighbourhood.

Originally Posted by kmcamp

It is and it isn't. Apparently it's only people on higher floors in high rises that are complaining. In my earlier days, I used to live in a 16th floor apartment, it's amazing how much noisier things are up high compared to ground level. If there was a street sweeper within 2 kilometres you could hear it. You do get used to it though, but this sound is probably new and different to them.

I call BS also. I have lived there (west of Tunney's) and can testify to the bus GRoar and the diesel stench. And I have well listened to the T-Line rumble (diesel trains) at the south end (Dow's) of that trench. Night and Day comparison. And I have listened to the new Citadis in the Tunney's area for comparison (I was curious to compare, specifically). The noise is - <ahem> sorry to the "MCA", BUT - waaayyyyy softer and more tolerable. The main point, as kmcamp noted, is DIFFERENT, and will be grown into. The bus noise was much worse, but was FAMILIAR. Final - grow up, folks. Even by the article, it seems the "MCA" does not speak for all.

And as for Mr. Leiper...... well, he and I have had differences over his attitude to bus priority lights .vs. bike priority lights, and we differ significantly. Same here. He wants to spend more to alleviate the noise..... where does he find the funds ? How about cover the trench, sir ? It's only been a bear of a point for 30 YEARS ! Oh, yeah, we couldnot because of the fumes and ventilation - WELL, HERE is your chance, sir ! GET IT DONE ! If Sherbourne to NewOrchard can have it, Scott can have it too. Phase 2 is here - DO IT. It is beyond time.

<sheesh>

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

re: Noisy LRT has Mechanicsville residents asking the city to hush it





I call BS also. I have lived there (west of Tunney's) and can testify to the bus GRoar and the diesel stench. And I have well listened to the T-Line rumble (diesel trains) at the south end (Dow's) of that trench. Night and Day comparison. And I have listened to the new Citadis in the Tunney's area for comparison (I was curious to compare, specifically). The noise is - <ahem> sorry to the "MCA", BUT - waaayyyyy softer and more tolerable. The main point, as kmcamp noted, is DIFFERENT, and will be grown into. The bus noise was much worse, but was FAMILIAR. Final - grow up, folks. Even by the article, it seems the "MCA" does not speak for all.

And as for Mr. Leiper...... well, he and I have had differences over his attitude to bus priority lights .vs. bike priority lights, and we differ significantly. Same here. He wants to spend more to alleviate the noise..... where does he find the funds ? How about cover the trench, sir ? It's only been a bear of a point for 30 YEARS ! Oh, yeah, we couldnot because of the fumes and ventilation - WELL, HERE is your chance, sir ! GET IT DONE ! If Sherbourne to NewOrchard can have it, Scott can have it too. Phase 2 is here - DO IT. It is beyond time.

<sheesh>

I doubt the city wilk cover it as an exercise in itself, but I do see them selling the air rights and letting developers cover it over with yet more condos and apartments

[CanadaGoose]

I work at Tunney's Pasture directly beside the tracks. I hear it all the time, but it's not disruptive to me.

But, it's not much different from hearing the rush hour double deckers and inveros on Scott.

[J.OT13]

I think it's time to seriously consider covering the trench. Build a linear park that connects the north and south sides of the rail corridor, just like the Byron strip, as PHrenetic mentioned. The City could look at dipping into the Ward's park fund or consult with residents about a possible tax levy. They're doing in in Barrhaven to buy-out a golf course, why not have one for businesses and residents within 500-1000 meters from the trench. And yes, selling air-rights, at strategic locations at least, is another option.

Hopefully, this issue doesn't further delay the opening, however it can start a conversation. Covering an active rail line is not uncommon. Calgary's new central library and Vancouver's Expo Line between Portal Park and Waterfront stations are good examples.

[lrt's friend]

It will be interesting how the noise issue goes. I have commented about the noise (not complained) of the Trillium Line trains and it is more than the diesel engines. It is the steel wheels on steel rails especially when there are track connections and sidings.

There is a long history of complaints about rail transit noise in Ottawa. Back to the 20s and 30s when transit was being added in the Glebe, people fought against streetcars on Bronson and Carling (Glebe Avenue). In those days, a streetcar running in front of your house decreased property values because of the noise. This brought about the first major bus route in the city, which is Route 56 today (formerly Route 6) and the city's only trolley route on Bronson. Rubber tires did dampen noise and was a selling point for the conversion of streetcars to diesel and trolley buses across the continent.

One of the priorities when the PCC streetcars were designed in the 30s was noise reduction. Surely, modern streetcars and LRT have only improved on noise dampening technology. I expect that the more exposed the tracks are, the more noise will be apparent. Tracks embedded in pavement will produce less noise. But we also know, that even subway trains can be quite noisy when they are arriving at a station. It is different from diesel engines, but it is still noise.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It will be interesting how the noise issue goes. I have commented about the noise (not complained) of the Trillium Line trains and it is more than the diesel engines. It is the steel wheels on steel rails especially when there are track connections and sidings.

There is a long history of complaints about rail transit noise in Ottawa. Back to the 20s and 30s when transit was being added in the Glebe, people fought against streetcars on Bronson and Carling (Glebe Avenue). In those days, a streetcar running in front of your house decreased property values because of the noise. This brought about the first major bus route in the city, which is Route 56 today (formerly Route 6) and the city's only trolley route on Bronson. Rubber tires did dampen noise and was a selling point for the conversion of streetcars to diesel and trolley buses across the continent.

One of the priorities when the PCC streetcars were designed in the 30s was noise reduction. Surely, modern streetcars and LRT have only improved on noise dampening technology. I expect that the more exposed the tracks are, the more noise will be apparent. Tracks embedded in pavement will produce less noise. But we also know, that even subway trains can be quite noisy when they are arriving at a station. It is different from diesel engines, but it is still noise.

Subway train noises are amplified due to being in a cavern. A perfect example of this was the bus tunnel at St Laurent.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Subway train noises are amplified due to being in a cavern. A perfect example of this was the bus tunnel at St Laurent.

Yep. That is exactly true. No matter what, noise goes somewhere. When not contained in an enclosure, it goes up and out.

[JayBuoy]

I was sitting in a yard around Armstrong and Merton in Hintonburg a few days ago, and I could hear the low hum of the LRT every several minutes. The sound definitely carries a good distance, but I still find it less disruptive than diesel busses.

[Gat-Train]

People tend to be resistant to change. In a year from now, no one will say boo about loud train noises.

[Mikeed]

Based on Google Earth we're talking about 650m of trench here. Give or take 3 kms on the other side of Tunneys.

It makes little sense imo opinion to deck over the trench. I don't see a way of decking over the trench with development that doesn't also remove the green space/bike path on scott street. You'd also have a hard time building towers on those tiny lots with no underground parking unless you did complicated land assembly deals which with Ottawa's abundancy of development space inside the green belt I don't see this being anywhere feasible.

The only way I see the trench getting covered is *gasp* if you do some kind urban parkway that moved the road onto the rail line.

[passwordisnt123]

My friend who works on the LRT project says they'd actually hoped to sell air rights in stage 1 but the rules and process they put in place basically fucked everybody over and made it unappealing on all sides.

Last year he said they were trying to do something different with stage 2 air rights to make them more appealing and incentivize them. Not sure what the status us but it sounds like the city is aware that they're leaving money on the table here. Also not sure if the new rules would apply retroactively to stage 1 parts of the Confederation Line.

[AuxTown]

Drove down Nicholas a few times yesterday and it was really cool to see the trains whipping in and out of the tunnel. With 4 minute headways each way you almost always have at least one train between Lees and the tunnel. My kids thought it was pretty neat as well and are excited to go for a ride!

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

My friend who works on the LRT project says they'd actually hoped to sell air rights in stage 1 but the rules and process they put in place basically fucked everybody over and made it unappealing on all sides.

Last year he said they were trying to do something different with stage 2 air rights to make them more appealing and incentivize them. Not sure what the status us but it sounds like the city is aware that they're leaving money on the table here. Also not sure if the new rules would apply retroactively to stage 1 parts of the Confederation Line.

Good Day.

Yep.... the City has to be VERY well aware of what they are fouling up.
The air rights negotiations at and about Bayview for the T-Line and the Trinity development were (to put it politely) a real bear, and were the one of the chief causes of so many redesigns of that locale. A total FUBAR ! Added at least a year to Trinity's timeline.

NoJoy!

[Truenorth00]

I think selling air rights is much more difficult than it seems. To me the only feasible way to do it is to partner with a retailer that needs traffic. For example, partner with a grocery store chain that can setup urban grocery stores using through traffic.

Alternatively, if they weren’t able to sell air rights, I’ve always wondered why they couldn’t see the space above for public facilities. Why not build libraries, small community centres, or city offices above stations? Would free up land on some existing facilities to be redeveloped. Or provide added service to new developments.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I think selling air rights is much more difficult than it seems. To me the only feasible way to do it is to partner with a retailer that needs traffic. For example, partner with a grocery store chain that can setup urban grocery stores using through traffic.

Alternatively, if they weren’t able to sell air rights, I’ve always wondered why they couldn’t see the space above for public facilities. Why not build libraries, small community centres, or city offices above stations? Would free up land on some existing facilities to be redeveloped. Or provide added service to new developments.

Good Day.

Yep..... you mean like the new central Ottawa Public Library ?
Which really should have been (since they insisted on that western location) on the parcel just east of and immediately next to Pimisi station, well connected to the station, to make access better for mobility-hindered clients ? So that no negotiations on cost or profit were involved ?
Ahhh... that would most certainly have made waaayyyy too much sense !

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Yep..... you mean like the new central Ottawa Public Library ?
Which really should have been (since they insisted on that western location) on the parcel just east of and immediately next to Pimisi station, well connected to the station, to make access better for mobility-hindered clients ? So that no negotiations on cost or profit were involved ?
Ahhh... that would most certainly have made waaayyyy too much sense !

Doesn’t even have to be a major facility like that. I look at Cyrville station beside my house and wonder why a small library branch couldn’t be built on top. Or a small office building to house city or school board offices.

Or like I said, strike a deal with a grocery chain. Sobey’s Urban Fresh on stations not already planned to have buildings on top. Low traffic location like Cyrville? Give them a decade of free rent till developers build enough to make the traffic profitable.

So much could have been done.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Doesn’t even have to be a major facility like that. I look at Cyrville station beside my house and wonder why a small library branch couldn’t be built on top. Or a small office building to house city or school board offices.

Or like I said, strike a deal with a grocery chain. Sobey’s Urban Fresh on stations not already planned to have buildings on top. Low traffic location like Cyrville? Give them a decade of free rent till developers build enough to make the traffic profitable.

So much could have been done.

Most of Cyrville road is autoshops, car washes, gas stations and car dealerships. Definitely an ideal location for rapid transit.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Most of Cyrville road is autoshops, car washes, gas stations and car dealerships. Definitely an ideal location for rapid transit.

Doesn’t refute my point.