Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

You think they might take it, even if the final testing fails, with the hope of "ironing out" the last few kinks during OC Transpo's final testing? It would be pretty embarrassing for RTG and the City if yet another deadline is blown.

I think the reason there are independent checks in place is to prevent this from happening.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Apparently, there was a train stalled at Tunney's for 10 hours yesterday. If that's not a reset, I don't know what is. Unless of course it was part of the testing, but of course we will never know.

https://twitter.com/Smardie96/status/1161388828172652544

Don't you think if you were the City overseeing a test, you'd say one day "Ok, break down the train somewhere and continue your operations"?

[lrt's friend]

I would hope that it is a deliberate test. Can you imagine being stuck on a train for 10 hours between stations? Do they have a plan for that? I hope so. There needs to be evacuation plans.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I would hope that it is a deliberate test. Can you imagine being stuck on a train for 10 hours between stations? Do they have a plan for that? I hope so. There needs to be evacuation plans.

It was stuck for an hour before they pushed it to Tunney's, so I guess passengers would only have been stuck for that hour?

To me, it sounds like it might have been a test. Trains stalls in the tunnel past Lyon, conductor calls it in, trains are short-turned at Lyon (entire system has to be re-programmed for this), stalled train is towed to the nearest terminus station (the time someone is dispatched to a train or tow vehicle, travel the line to the stalled train and slowly push it to Tunney's). The procedure worked perfectly!? Had they shut down the system completely, I would be more worried.

Little bit from a Citizen article today, which might give us a slight overview of the situation. The door to the Chamber of Secrets opening just a little crack:

“The Independent Certifier will confirm whether the requirements of Trial Running have been achieved as part of finalizing the requirements for Revenue Service Availability (RSA). Once RTG has achieved all Trial Running requirements, Mr. Manconi will inform Council, Members of the Transit Commission, the public and media outlets. We anticipate that this information will be made public this month,” Watson’ press secretary, Livia Belcea, said in an email.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/three-days-to-lrt-handover-mayor-stays-mute

That line might suggest testing had to be reset to day 1.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Apparently, there was a train stalled at Tunney's for 10 hours yesterday. If that's not a reset, I don't know what is. Unless of course it was part of the testing, but of course we will never know.

https://twitter.com/Smardie96/status/1161388828172652544

I was at Hurdman yesterday around 4:30-5 and timed a few trains. They were pretty much bang on every 4 minutes, so if the stalled train was still at Tunney's it wasn't hurting anything.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I was at Hurdman yesterday around 4:30-5 and timed a few trains. They were pretty much bang on every 4 minutes, so if the stalled train was still at Tunney's it wasn't hurting anything.

Yup, same with Lyon Station. That's a good sign, right?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by dougvdh

Scott may not see as much as people think. The zoning between Parkdale and Bayview doesn't allow any significant increase in density due to a max height defined by an angular plane taken off the south property line of Scott Street facing lots. Most lots are very shallow, so heights (with a couple exceptions) are very limited.

A lot of those properties on Scott are still relatively cheap enough to buy up and assemble into larger sites. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone is already quietly doing it. An REIT could easily drop a few million to buy half a block anywhere between Bayview and Dominion.

I have a feeling that the spot to watch out for TOD in the future is Cleary Station

[harls]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yup, same with Lyon Station. That's a good sign, right?

Drove by Blair last night around 7:30 pm, and there were trains moving in and out of the station.

[Corvulpes]

a

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I think the reason there are independent checks in place is to prevent this from happening.

Yep. Precisely why the process is being overseen by an independent certifier. The city may not even be aware of the status of the test.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

All this testing various scenarios nonsense is just that. There were never any tests planned other than running revenue service. All the breakdowns that have happened were just that. I don't know why Manconi said what he did other than preventing panic when (not if) people see broken trains during trial running. Handover on the 16th is just not happening. That date is as good as passed. The trains still need a lot of work. If they did hand over now it would be nuts. Even with another month to go it would still be a gong show in actual service with the trains the way they would still be, as they have been. As far as I can tell, they've had at best 3-4 days that have been passable. It's just not yet a reliable system.

That was our impression up until Substantial Completion (SC) when we were told (via the media) that various scenarios would be tested over the course of the 12 days. The only thing Manconi mentioned before SC was that "there may be times when trains would not be running, and that's normal", which was repeated numerous times over the last few months. It made little sense to me (other than the night time maintenance period) until the scenario testing came up.

One thing I've noticed is that throughout the testing, we've never seen weekend service with singles running up and down the line. You'd think that they would want to practice coupling and uncoupling of the trains, weekend maintenance of vehicles and other.

At the very least, the City should have the decency to announce further delays on Friday and not keep its taxpaying citizens in the dark until RSA is achieved in who knows how long.

[OTownandDown]

Why would the City accept 'standard revenue service' as a baseline for acceptance? If it were my train line, I'd throw as many ridiculous scenarios at the line as I possible could, then sit back and watch the thing play out. Breakdowns WILL happen. The differentiation is how the breakdowns are handled.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I have a strong feeling that the mayor has deemed the 16th will happen, no matter what. We would know by now if they were going to delay handover

I don't know man... They are being incredibly tight-lipped about it. They don't tell me or my team anything. I spoke to a rail supervisor today who said he isn't told anything about the status of trial running either. He also said that yesterday's operations were a mess. That train that was towed to Tunney's definitely wasn't a "planned scenario".

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Why would the City accept 'standard revenue service' as a baseline for acceptance? If it were my train line, I'd throw as many ridiculous scenarios at the line as I possible could, then sit back and watch the thing play out. Breakdowns WILL happen. The differentiation is how the breakdowns are handled.

Yeah, I agree. Contingency plan testing is absolutely something I would want tested. As a test planner I also wouldn’t tell those being tested whether problems are real or not, it would give the best measure of how they work through issues in a ‘real’ sense.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I think the reason there are independent checks in place is to prevent this from happening.

Nope, they are there to mediate disagreements between the two parties. If the city and RTG agree on a pass, the auditor won't disagree.


His mayorship spent a lot of political drama around making this the final delay, so I think they'll take it warts and all, and take the risk they can iron out the kinks in the next 7 weeks before parallel bus service would end.

[harls]

Coun. Allan Hubley was on CFRA this afternoon, and when Graham Richardson pressed him, he stated he was sure people would be riding the train this September. Wishful thinking or was he playing coy? Who knows.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

You think they might take it, even if the final testing fails, with the hope of "ironing out" the last few kinks during OC Transpo's final testing? It would be pretty embarrassing for RTG and the City if yet another deadline is blown.

More likely, they'd probably accept handover a few days after Aug. 16 and tell RTG "don't sweat it," rather than having to wait 2 months for next deadline

[Corvulpes]

a

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

They did test some fire scenarios in the tunnel a few months ago but trial running is just 12 straight days of regular revenue service. There has never been a need to plan tests for broken train scenarios because that's just another tuesday. And a 12 day trial running wouldn't make sense if there were periods of not full service. I get why he said it but I lost some respect for him there because it was basically a flat out lie.



I've heard no word of running singles for weekend service, now or in service. The coupling process is hard on the trains so they try not to do it too much. Once you find a pair that can work together you don't want to risk breaking that up. They have been running weekend service on weekends for the most part.

To be honest, I think the whole keeping them coupled makes sense anyway. I think demand mid day on weekends might warrant it.

[J.OT13]

So first they decided to go against uncoupling on weekday evenings and nights, and now they're doing the same for weekends? Is this a City of Ottawa, OC Transpo or RTG decision? Will this impact frequency? Will it increase maintenance costs (that's a whole lot more kilometers!!)?

If we're keeping them coupled, I hope that the next time we put a tender out for new trains (around 2025 as part of Stage 3?), we challenge the bidders to come up with one continuous 100 meters train. That would increase the capacity significantly by eliminating two cabs and the space between two cars. If they were able to figure out how to build heavy rail with full-length gang-ways, I'm sure they can do the same with LRT technology.