CHICAGO | General Discussions

[Investing In Chicago]

It's all one big scam...The entire system is broken, is there any wonder why people are fleeing the city/state?

Between my 3 properties in Lakeview (primary residence, 3 flat, 6 flat) I saw an INCREASE of $26,000 in property taxes, none of the buildings have commercial, and none were purchased in 2018.

I'll appeal the taxes and likely see some relief, but not after investing both time and money into doing so.

[Hourstrooper]

Maurice Cox is leaving his job in the Motor City to take the Chicago planning commissioner post in the fall, according to the Detroit News.


https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2019...opment-report/



Any body have any thoughts on this guy?


Seems like he did a good job in Detroit, although he is going to have his hands full herer that's for sure Chicago is a whole new ball game.


Pretty sure lightfoot Brought him in to redesign and replan blighted communities like Englewood and many many others.


He starts in August for the next plan commission agenda

[Steely Dan]

* posts deleted *


We're not doing a gun rights debate in this thread.

Take your axe-grinding bullshit elsewhere.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Hourstrooper

Maurice Cox is leaving his job in the Motor City to take the Chicago planning commissioner post in the fall, according to the Detroit News.


https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2019...opment-report/



Any body have any thoughts on this guy?


Seems like he did a good job in Detroit, although he is going to have his hands full herer that's for sure Chicago is a whole new ball game.


Pretty sure lightfoot Brought him in to redesign and replan blighted communities like Englewood and many many others.


He starts in August for the next plan commission agenda

I had him as a professor in architecture school. Very unusual guy, very skeptical of top-down planning. He's a devotee of the "tactical urbanism" school, so expect to see some street closures, pedestrian plazas, popups, etc.

I don't expect him to be outright hostile to developers, Lightfoot is very much focused on a "win-win" sort of messaging where under-resourced areas on the South and West Sides can succeed along with downtown and the North Side. I'm sure he will hold developers to a high standard both on design issues and on their obligations for affordable housing or commercial re-investment.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

uhhhhhhh, thanks for picking up the slack, i guess

is it maybe a SFH vs. condo issue? is the county going after SFH's harder and giving condo dwellers a break?

My taxes went up 11 percent on my condo on the north side.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

He's a devotee of the "tactical urbanism" school, so expect to see some street closures, pedestrian plazas, popups, etc.

that would be wonderful!!!

as a lincoln square family for a couple years now, we've come to love giddings plaza (the small ped plaza created by closing a section of giddings near lincoln).

chicago neighborhoods could use WAY more of that kind of thing.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that would be wonderful!!!

as a lincoln square family for a couple years now, we've come to love giddings plaza (the small ped plaza created by closing a section of giddings near lincoln).

chicago neighborhoods could use WAY more of that kind of thing.

Looking forward to the Northcenter Town Square they recently started construction on, too!

http://porturbanism.com/work/northcenter-town-square/

Only complaint is that they didn't do more to build a separation from the neighboring CVS parking lot...

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Handro

Looking forward to the Northcenter Town Square they recently started construction on, too!

http://porturbanism.com/work/northcenter-town-square/

Only complaint is that they didn't do more to build a separation from the neighboring CVS parking lot...

^ that's looks awesome. every neighborhood should have several of these. close streets, make people get out of their cars, walk around, and actually meet their neighbors.

yeah, it's a shame it's bounded by a fucking CVS parking lot on one side, but with that plaza in place, maybe that land will become valuable enough for a more intensive, plaza-fronting redevelopment.

one can hope, at least.

[Baronvonellis]

Wow, yea I just went by the Sunday and was wondering what they were doing to the plaza. Glad they are improving it!
That's the downside of the unyielding grid system of streets in Chicago, there's no natural gathering places and meeting spaces that are similar to European market squares. I think Lincoln Square does the best job of creating and fostering European type squares. One can dream that the CVS could be raised and the parking lot would be added to the plaza with some cafe seating restaurants one day.

[emathias]

Anyone know why there were something like fifteen emergency vehicles responding to the 100 block of Huron tonight? I've never seen so many vehicles without an obvious cause. There's even more than show up in this photo.

EDIT:
There was a fire in a single room:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago...elix-fire/amp/

[bnk]

https://wgntv.com/2019/08/01/shortag...tion-projects/


Shortage of skilled laborers affecting Chicago area construction projects


Posted 9:45 PM, August 1, 2019, by Sean Lewis and Stacy Friedman



CHICAGO — The summer remodeling and construction season is in full swing, but there's a problem. The lack plumbers, electricians, carpenters and other skilled laborers is putting a pinch on projects in Chicago — and beyond.
"Frankly, there aren't enough people doing this right now," David Van Osdol with Macpherson Builders said.
Van Osdol has been in the construction business for nearly 20 years. He said staying busy is great, but there's an unusually high level of frustration that comes with the lack of specially trained workers.
"I'm not a spring chicken, but I'm one of the few guys doing this, it seems," he said.


…


"They make a lot of money out of the gate. So the difference is in your first five to seven years, you may be outpacing someone with a liberal arts degree; however, it gets to a point that it caps." Gimbel said. "Unless you move into management — more money once you hit 28, 30 and on, and there's more opportunities for promotion and advancement."
Chicago Public Schools recently teamed up with the Department of Buildings to offer a construction training program for high school juniors and seniors. Students who take part will learn carpentry, electricity, welding and general construction. It will include paid work experiences and high school credit.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by bnk

https://wgntv.com/2019/08/01/shortag...tion-projects/


Shortage of skilled laborers affecting Chicago area construction projects


Posted 9:45 PM, August 1, 2019, by Sean Lewis and Stacy Friedman



CHICAGO — The summer remodeling and construction season is in full swing, but there's a problem. The lack plumbers, electricians, carpenters and other skilled laborers is putting a pinch on projects in Chicago — and beyond.
"Frankly, there aren't enough people doing this right now," David Van Osdol with Macpherson Builders said.
Van Osdol has been in the construction business for nearly 20 years. He said staying busy is great, but there's an unusually high level of frustration that comes with the lack of specially trained workers.
"I'm not a spring chicken, but I'm one of the few guys doing this, it seems," he said.


…


"They make a lot of money out of the gate. So the difference is in your first five to seven years, you may be outpacing someone with a liberal arts degree; however, it gets to a point that it caps." Gimbel said. "Unless you move into management — more money once you hit 28, 30 and on, and there's more opportunities for promotion and advancement."
Chicago Public Schools recently teamed up with the Department of Buildings to offer a construction training program for high school juniors and seniors. Students who take part will learn carpentry, electricity, welding and general construction. It will include paid work experiences and high school credit.

Any theories on this? I’ve been reading this type of articles for 6 years. Wouldn’t the free market imply that people would shift careers to fill these available jobs at high wages? Same thing happened in the trucking industry a few years ago without any explanation.

What’s broken here, are the wages staying too low to draw people? Is the work too hard for people? Do people just prefer an office?

[the urban politician]

^ My theories:

1. A slowdown in immigration
2. A bias against blue collar type work. After all, we are increasingly a society of desk workers, managers, administrators, consultants who all have to send our kids to college to have a future. Who wants to be a carpenter?

I’m not saying I agree with any of this, but it does appear the way our culture has evolved over the past 30 years

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ My theories:

1. A slowdown in immigration
2. A bias against blue collar type work. After all, we are increasingly a society of desk workers, managers, administrators, consultants who all have to send our kids to college to have a future. Who wants to be a carpenter?

I’m not saying I agree with any of this, but it does appear the way our culture has evolved over the past 30 years

I think you are on the right path. There is some bias against manual work, but part of that is likely due to the actual physical effects that work has on you. I’ve known lots of older plumbers and carpenters with severe, chronic pain from their careers. I’ve also seen it lead to drug and alcohol abuse, maybe that has biased their kids.

Maybe people just think it’s “uncouth”, but the politicians and the media definitely treats these workers with more reverence than other, more common, jobs. The perfect example is how much time we spend talking about coal jobs while Arby’s employs more people than that entire industry.

[BrinChi]

Interesting that the construction shortage is prevalent even though new construction is way down -- Crains ran a piece about how new construction has plummeted in the suburbs because they can barely compete with the prices of existing homes in established neighborhoods. Perhaps the remodeling demand is really high though especially if existing homeowners are trying to maximizing their sale price.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ You are comparing suburban tract housing with the entire metropolitan construction industry. They are building warehouses in the burbs right now at a blistering pace, just because the myth of the suburban SFH as the American dream has gone up in smoke, doesn't mean people aren't building housing.

I've experienced this myself, the last 12 months in particular has been marked by subs being totally AWOL on a regular basis as they are up to their necks in work. Both of my current projects are about two months behind schedule because of this.

I think TUP is right that immigration has slowed reducing supply of labor. My main contractor was just complaining to me the other day that he can't find workers. He is making salary offers with benefits at $58k and losing out to other contractors offering them $65 or $70k.

The other side of the coin is simply that demand is blistering right now. There is so much construction going on, even public infrastructure. This will only get worse with JB's infrastructure splurge and the ongoing central core boom. I'm just fortunate to have my GC because he plows ahead despite the challenges hiring friends and family to backstop his labor shortage and training others to become skilled laborers.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Any theories on this? I’ve been reading this type of articles for 6 years. Wouldn’t the free market imply that people would shift careers to fill these available jobs at high wages? Same thing happened in the trucking industry a few years ago without any explanation.

What’s broken here, are the wages staying too low to draw people? Is the work too hard for people? Do people just prefer an office?

If I were ten or fifteen years younger I might be tempted to switch to the trades, but even though I'm relatively healthy switching to manual labor at 45 seems like a bad idea. I'd be at least fifty before I could be considered senior skills-wise, which isn't a great time to just be starting in a physically demanding career. Plus I bet a lot of people know how cyclical the trades can be and given how long this expansion has been many people probably fear they'd switch just in time for a big contraction where work was scarce. Not to mention that robotic construction seems just around the corner.

[jtown,man]

I will either be getting a job(hopefully) or going to grad school in Chicago(hopefully part 2) or in New Orleans in December. So as an outsider, I wanted to share a few points.

1. The taxes in Chicago scare me. I don't know one city in this country that doesn't have budget issues, but it seems like Chicago is on a different level(maybe thats preception over reality?). Looking at homes in the city(for fun right now) I am blown away about how much taxes make up the true price of owning a home. Every city taxes its people, but they might be getting more in return. I am afraid Chicago will end up taxing people to death leaving the wealthy and people like me either leaving the city or never coming in the first place. That would spell disaster for the city.

2. Neighborhoods. I think the point that some have made about transplants picking "popular" neighborhoods is probably the more correct version of how things work. If I am lucky enough to move to Chicago I will be staying in one of those established neighborhoods. Why? Because I want to experience a real urban neighborhood while I get used to the city. I don't want to regret where I live and I do NOT want to have to deal with crime. With all that said, I am sure many people move to the city and don't do their research and end up in areas where there is a nice apartment or something but then become suprised when they figure out the local crime situation.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

I think you are on the right path. There is some bias against manual work, but part of that is likely due to the actual physical effects that work has on you. I’ve known lots of older plumbers and carpenters with severe, chronic pain from their careers. I’ve also seen it lead to drug and alcohol abuse, maybe that has biased their kids.

yup. lots of people have watched the meat grinder that these jobs are, and the effect they have on long term health. more than half these guys wind up with chronic conditions later in life (and by later i actually mean like, early middle age). and by that point theyre no longer as employable anyway, and then stuck with opiod addictions just to function.

sitting on your ass all day in front of a computer screen isnt exactly healthy either, but at the end of the day its really not a comparison to what the construction industry does to joints and muscles.

its like playing in the NFL. sure you can go work on an oil field in your 20s and work all sorts of crazy hours and make 6 figures with menial education, as long as youre willing to sacrifice your body. but youd better have a plan for what happens after (or when the market cools). most of those guys dont.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I will either be getting a job(hopefully) or going to grad school in Chicago(hopefully part 2) or in New Orleans in December. So as an outsider, I wanted to share a few points.

1. The taxes in Chicago scare me. I don't know one city in this country that doesn't have budget issues, but it seems like Chicago is on a different level(maybe thats preception over reality?). Looking at homes in the city(for fun right now) I am blown away about how much taxes make up the true price of owning a home. Every city taxes its people, but they might be getting more in return. I am afraid Chicago will end up taxing people to death leaving the wealthy and people like me either leaving the city or never coming in the first place. That would spell disaster for the city.

I think you may have a little bit of a perception issue. NoVA property tax bills are similar to the tax bills paid in Chicago land and in most big cities: https://money.cnn.com/interactive/re.../property-tax/

Everyone in Chicago is concerned about taxes going up. But if taxes go up enough that it would "spell disaster for the city", the taxes would raise less money. There's a natural equilibrium.

One thing we DON'T have to worry about is high taxes pushing the wealthy out of the city. Wealthy folks don't flee to the suburbs in Paris. Wealthy folks in NYC pay a 5% income tax just TO THE CITY to live there. Pro athletes often choose to move to high tax states over low tax states, even though the contract amounts are the same. Once you have more money than you can spend, only the real oddballs move someplace stale and unproductive just so that they can keep a little more of it. If you're an orthodondist saving $5,000 a month and taxes go up and you now save $4,200 a month, these folks don't even notice it. Life feels the same. And if they do notice it, it still feels a lot better than having to live in Northbrook or someplace like that.

I'd like it a lot better of taxes went up and were paying for new bike lanes and better transit and employing Chicagoans. Those investments deliver an ROI. It sucks that they are going up and are going to pay for something that brings no benefit. But the fact is that we should have raised taxes a long time ago and that having artificially low taxes for so long didn't help Chicago at all.