Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[Taeolas]

Yeah I don't really see the use cases for a commuter passenger ferry service in Freddy.

The river freezing means it would have to be seasonal.

The freshet means there would be 2-3 weeks beyond that when it couldn't run.

There are already 2 bridges for pedestrians that cross the river, and a third crossing is surely going to have a pedestrian option. Even the PMB used to have one; but understandably it was removed when the deck was replaced. (I almost wish they had left it in and made a better connection to the trail network, but I understand why they decided to remove it).

Basically commuter ferry service for Freddy doesn't really have a use case, even with increased population levels; we'll probably see a 4th and 5th bridge (with urban densities to warrant those bridges) long before commuter ferry might remotely be considered feasible.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Basically commuter ferry service for Freddy doesn't really have a use case, even with increased population levels; we'll probably see a 4th and 5th bridge (with urban densities to warrant those bridges) long before commuter ferry might remotely be considered feasible.

Something like this blows my mind a bit even just considering it. Ottawa just hit a million people a few weeks back and we only have five bridges total between Ontario and Quebec.

If designed properly Fredericton should be able to manage three bridges tops for the long, foreseeable future. Anything beyond that would be overkill.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Something like this blows my mind a bit even just considering it. Ottawa just hit a million people a few weeks back and we only have five bridges total between Ontario and Quebec.

If designed properly Fredericton should be able to manage three bridges tops for the long, foreseeable future. Anything beyond that would be overkill.

Yeah, 3 vehicle bridges will probably be the max. Plus the pedestrian bridge. And maybe in the far future a commuter rail bridge. But those are 50+ years away.

I just said "4 or 5th bridges" as a way to indicate that even as unlikely as those bridges ever will be... a Commuter Ferry Service is even MORE unlikely to happen.

[starburns42]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yeah I don't really see the use cases for a commuter passenger ferry service in Freddy.

The river freezing means it would have to be seasonal.

The freshet means there would be 2-3 weeks beyond that when it couldn't run.

There are already 2 bridges for pedestrians that cross the river, and a third crossing is surely going to have a pedestrian option. Even the PMB used to have one; but understandably it was removed when the deck was replaced. (I almost wish they had left it in and made a better connection to the trail network, but I understand why they decided to remove it).

Basically commuter ferry service for Freddy doesn't really have a use case, even with increased population levels; we'll probably see a 4th and 5th bridge (with urban densities to warrant those bridges) long before commuter ferry might remotely be considered feasible.

Why was it removed?

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by starburns42

Why was it removed?

The side walk was removed from the PMB basically because no one was using it; maybe 1-5 pedestrian crossings a day if that. Since the entire deck was being replaced, they saved some money and could eek out a few more inches by removing it where they could (the steel middle section still has the side walk of course but the rest of the bridge is now without).

The PMB is not really a walkable bridge anyways. It is fed by a highway on one side and empties into a complicated intersection of roads that needs to be straightened out some day. The walking trails are along the river and don't have a good access point to reach the bridge due to how high up the south end is.

Westmoreland, while not being the most walkable of bridges, is still a lot better than the PMB. It does have a sidewalk with separation from traffic, and it links directly to the trails on either side. Ideally the sidewalk could probably be about twice as wide to better support bike traffic, but otherwise it's serviceable as a pedestrian crossing route.

[McKay]

Originally Posted by starburns42

Why was it removed?

During the last refurbishment the entire deck was replaced — everything above the steel trusses (except the navigation span, obviously!). The decision was made to sacrifice the sidewalk in favour of wider driving lanes. (The old lanes weren't as wide as is customary now.)

It seems to me that the additional weight of a wider deck to accommodate a sidewalk may have been a consideration as well. The thinking was that the PMB is principally an arterial highway bridge. The fact that it runs through a city didn't hold much sway.

There is a sidewalk of sorts at the navigation span, but it's not really much more than a refuge for stranded motorists and an access point for the catwalks under the bridge. You'd have to climb over the Jersey barrier to get at it.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by McKay

During the last refurbishment the entire deck was replaced — everything above the steel trusses (except the navigation span, obviously!). The decision was made to sacrifice the sidewalk in favour of wider driving lanes. (The old lanes weren't as wide as is customary now.)

It seems to me that the additional weight of a wider deck to accommodate a sidewalk may have been a consideration as well. The thinking was that the PMB is principally an arterial highway bridge. The fact that it runs through a city didn't hold much sway.

There is a sidewalk of sorts at the navigation span, but it's not really much more than a refuge for stranded motorists and an access point for the catwalks under the bridge. You'd have to climb over the Jersey barrier to get at it.

I don't think there was very much pedestrian traffic on the PMB anyway.

[ColSJ]

Hi everyone! I don't post in here but I regularly check out this thread to see what's going on in the capitol. I'm from Saint John and took the trip up with a few friends and spent the day in Freddy. I thought I'd share how impressed I was with your city. Coming in I took the wrong exit and ended up taking the PM bridge which at first frustrated me but the incredible view of your downtown coming across the Westmoreland made up for it. We walked around the downtown area for a bit and had lunch before heading up to the mall. All around very impressed with how Fredericton is doing.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I don't think there was very much pedestrian traffic on the PMB anyway.

I dont see there ever being demand for a more pedestrian friendly PMB, the train bridge is the the perfect location and now is somewhat of the hub of all walking trails. No need for the PMB to ferry people also (for near future).

I would however like to see the Westmoreland Bridge become more pedestrian friendly. Tough for two bike to pass one another. As the bridge that leads to the downtown it should be very walker friendly. Since moving here me and my wife "walk the bridges" often and that stretch is significantly less enjoyable than the rest of the trip.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Hi everyone! I don't post in here but I regularly check out this thread to see what's going on in the capitol. I'm from Saint John and took the trip up with a few friends and spent the day in Freddy. I thought I'd share how impressed I was with your city. Coming in I took the wrong exit and ended up taking the PM bridge which at first frustrated me but the incredible view of your downtown coming across the Westmoreland made up for it. We walked around the downtown area for a bit and had lunch before heading up to the mall. All around very impressed with how Fredericton is doing.

Kind words.

I love SJ and am eternally jealous of the architecture. I travel a lot for work and am constantly trying to sell SJ as "The place to visit" if you are only going to make one NB stop. Vibrant uptown and old world (by North American standards) charm. I will be showing some friends around the city latter this summer and can not wait.

I wish the corridor between Fredericton and Saint John was more defined and more populous, but what are you gonna do.

[Bishop2047]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-bishop-drive-park-1.5229170

The walking trail in the new uptown park will be starting shortly. I did not realize how ambitious this project would be. Will be great for those living in that area, and I hope they add some parking at the other entrances.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

I dont see there ever being demand for a more pedestrian friendly PMB, the train bridge is the the perfect location and now is somewhat of the hub of all walking trails. No need for the PMB to ferry people also (for near future).

I would however like to see the Westmoreland Bridge become more pedestrian friendly. Tough for two bike to pass one another. As the bridge that leads to the downtown it should be very walker friendly. Since moving here me and my wife "walk the bridges" often and that stretch is significantly less enjoyable than the rest of the trip.

I agree. I think the reason there wasn't very much pedestrian traffic on the PMB is the location. There are more people in the area of the current walking bridge than the PMB.

[Taeolas]

Yeah the South side of the PMB has a lot of residential density being right next to the Universities; but it is also a fairly major highway still. And the other end of the PMB is basically one or two steps removed from rural suburban; not really many destinations for pedestrians, nor density to bring people across from the other side (plus crossing the bridge north to south is basically a long slog up hill, something a lot of pedestrians will want to skip).

Billy Thorpe has parks and destinations on both sides, lots of residential on both sides, and is a flat bridge, so it is much more walkable.

Westmoreland is also fairly flat for the most part, and dumps into Main street and downtown on either end. The walking part should be wider to make it more bike friendly but otherwise it is fine for its purpose. In a long long long term, I think it's deck should be widened, make it full 4 lanes with room for the appropriate on ramps (the ones that will remain), widening the pedestrian walk way and maybe even put a sidewalk on the downriver side. I know when I've walked across Westmoreland, I've been frustrated that some of the best views of the city are blocked by the 3-4 lanes of traffic in the way. Hell if they just flipped the sidewalk over to the other side, it would probably be 1000 times better and would likely integrate into the downtown all the much better. (though it would probably interfere with the Police Right of Way)

A future 3rd crossing should be built with the pedestrian/trails in mind. It'll be even further away from destinations so it probably won't be used that often. On the other hand, it will have more density on both sides which would help make it used. And unlike the PMB it won't be climbing the valley wall, so it should be easier to integrate with the trail network on either side. Plus, while it is hard to believe, by the time a 3rd crossing is needed and built, I suspect we'll need another commercial node in the city in that area, on either side of the river; the 3rd crossing would tie it in and make it more useful both for drivers and bikers/walkers.

[KnoxfordGuy]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-bishop-drive-park-1.5229170

The walking trail in the new uptown park will be starting shortly. I did not realize how ambitious this project would be. Will be great for those living in that area, and I hope they add some parking at the other entrances.

I'm looking forward to this! I live on Valcour Drive. But my husband and I are not 50+ we are 28 and 29 hahaha

[McKay]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I don't think there was very much pedestrian traffic on the PMB anyway.

Likely not, in part because the sidewalk wasn't especially good. Biking conditions were really poor.

Reminds me of a Canadian Transportation Agency decision that found VIA Rail at fault for lacking wheelchair access to trains. "But hardly anyone takes a wheelchair onto a train" was VIA's defence. No wonder!

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I agree. I think the reason there wasn't very much pedestrian traffic on the PMB is the location.

The then-current volume didn't enter into the discussion — it was all about the engineering considerations and the classification of the highway. I was there.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by McKay

Likely not, in part because the sidewalk wasn't especially good. Biking conditions were really poor.

Reminds me of a Canadian Transportation Agency decision that found VIA Rail at fault for lacking wheelchair access to trains. "But hardly anyone takes a wheelchair onto a train" was VIA's defence. No wonder!



The then-current volume didn't enter into the discussion — it was all about the engineering considerations and the classification of the highway. I was there.

What I meant was, the reason there wasn't a lot of pedestrian traffic on PMB is because of it's location.

[cl812]

Looks like some work is finally starting at the old Sears store in the regent mall, a construction trailer is parked on the route 8 side. There appears to have been some demo done inside a while back but has been sitting since then.

[McKay]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

What I meant was, the reason there wasn't a lot of pedestrian traffic on PMB is because of it's location.

That would certainly be a big part of it.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by cl812

Looks like some work is finally starting at the old Sears store in the regent mall, a construction trailer is parked on the route 8 side. There appears to have been some demo done inside a while back but has been sitting since then.

The Sears space in Champlain Place mall in Dieppe was converted to a TD Bank corporate center. They now have over 500 employees of the 1015 who will be employed there. TD spent $50 million & Cadillac Fairview $25 million. It's been a great addition for the mall, and shows that you can blend retail with other types of business. There's a large contingent of customers right on site who help support the mall stores. Particularly the restaurants & coffee shops.

[Franco401]

I'm very impressed with the plans for the new park. Even though I've been very satisfied with our current Mayor on planning matters, we've been burned and disappointed with relation to Bishop Drive development before.

A question: the city owns the needed ROW along Bishop to expand the whole thing to four lanes with a concrete median. What do you think they'll do at the roundabout with Lian Street? Expand it to a two-lane roundabout so it can be four lanes all the way to Hanwell Road? Have a weird bottleneck? I imagine we'll be finding out in the near future with the increase in traffic and developments on that road, and it isn't a candidate for what they did with Cliffe Street and now Knowledge Park Drive where the four-lane right-of-way was used for a trail instead of lanes.

On that note, looking at the stage of construction on Knowledge Park it seems to me they actually might not go to four lanes and instead add a centre turning lane.