YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by CloudInspector

Flew on WestJet the other day, flight attendant mentioned they can now apply for the 787 in YVR. Thought that was interesting.

Wouldn’t that be exciting. Next wave arrive next year?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

If you exclude Encore, seasonal extension, and 787 upgauge, YVR actually gained the same or more mainline service from WS than YYC and YYZ

But again, this is probably due to almost no growth from WS last winter/summer.

Yes, overall this winter not really that many gains system wide. One of the smaller increases in recent years.

The continuing MAX saga may still put a dent in some increases later on.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Let's hope!

The growth encountered in the last few years may have been some catching up but I think we all realised those very high growth rates wouldn't last indefinitely. Each year with the denominator growing that much higher, the ability to maintain those high growths would have meant adding even more capacity year on year than in previous years. Aggregate numbers still going up but % wise harder to achieve. And comparing to SEA, which economically is just going sky high, YVR is still adding more intl passengers than SEA.

Nice to see WESTJET adding to its YVR "hub." All up looks like 8 extra flights per week this winter of which 7 are international.

Still good to see Westjet continuing to build their mainline ops at YVR.

I didn't expect the rapid growth to continue infinitely, but I did expect it's drop would come in tandem with an economic slowdown, not during continued economic growth, which to me does not make any sense.

I really do hope the A220 allows Air Canada to address some of the routes that really need some additional service/any service at all. Boston/Halifax/Austin/Quebec/Dulles/Miami/Secondary Mexican Cities all come to mind.

And yes, happy to see WestJet throw a little something at YVR, though it is still pretty paltry service and most certainly no where near a hub.

Originally Posted by nname

If you exclude Encore, seasonal extension, and 787 upgauge, YVR actually gained the same or more mainline service from WS than YYC and YYZ

haha, right. If you don't count most of the other additions we have a similar number of additions.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Which 7 new Westjet routes are international, please? I would imagine they're pretty much all in Mexico, possibly the Caribbean. ( Or does that include transborder?) Thanks.
(btw, I did consult the westjet link a few posts above, and found only 6 from YVR, one to Winnipeg, one transborder, the rest - 4 - in the list to Mexico.)
no comprendo.

No one said there were 7 new routes, just new flights.

Count up the incremental flights in brackets below:

Additions to YVR Include:
YWG: 2 daily (+1/week)
SNA: Daily (+1/week)
SJD: Daily (+2/week)
PVR: 9 weekly (+1/week)
HUX: 2 weekly (+1/week)
CUN: 9 weekly (+2/week)

I think you'll find it totals 8...

[CloudInspector]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Wouldn’t that be exciting. Next wave arrive next year?

Early next year I believe. She didn’t say where they’d be flying, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they use YVR as an Asian gateway.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

No one said there were 7 new routes, just new flights.
Count up the incremental flights in brackets below:




I think you'll find it totals 8...

Ah, yes, of course. Flights, not destinations. Excuse me. I stand corrected.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I didn't expect the rapid growth to continue infinitely, but I did expect it's drop would come in tandem with an economic slowdown, not during continued economic growth, which to me does not make any sense.

I really do hope the A220 allows Air Canada to address some of the routes that really need some additional service/any service at all. Boston/Halifax/Austin/Quebec/Dulles/Miami/Secondary Mexican Cities all come to mind.

And yes, happy to see WestJet throw a little something at YVR, though it is still pretty paltry service and most certainly no where near a hub.

I agree with your point about the economic growth that’s why I used SEA as an example too. If Vancouver’s economy is on fire, Seattle’s is supposed to be out of control on fire. Yet, they still added way fewer intl passengers than YVR.

The A220s will definitely open up new routes from YVR. Just like the Dreamliner has been a big winner for YVR for long haul international, the A220 will be a big winner for YVR in North America. No doubt they can’t come soon enough.

As for Westjet... the pattern has been developed... at YYC WS is slowly pushing AC out of there while at YVR AC continues to dominate and therefore very little Westjet growth. WS throwing the odd bone to YVR is the same as AC throwing the off bone to YYC.

[SpongeG]

Apparently this plane stopped to pick up some cherries

• Video Link

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

As for Westjet... the pattern has been developed... at YYC WS is slowly pushing AC out of there while at YVR AC continues to dominate and therefore very little Westjet growth. WS throwing the odd bone to YVR is the same as AC throwing the off bone to YYC.

Do you think WS may step up its presence at YVR in the longer term? I heard they were planning destinations in Asia, and possibly South America. I doubt these would be all out of YYC

[SpongeG]

some pics from saturday

the expansion
2019-07-23_11-04-10 by snub_you, on Flickr

2019-07-23_11-04-39 by snub_you, on Flickr

the store and sort of cafe that was here is being replaced
2019-07-23_11-04-54 by snub_you, on Flickr

2019-07-23_11-05-08 by snub_you, on Flickr

2019-07-23_11-05-20 by snub_you, on Flickr

https://www.joejuice.com/

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Do you think WS may step up its presence at YVR in the longer term? I heard they were planning destinations in Asia, and possibly South America. I doubt these would be all out of YYC

The challenge for any WS Asian expansion out of YVR is that (1) Asia is already pretty well covered with lots of competition; (2) AC has strong market share; and (3) WS has very little brand recognition outside Canada. Maybe YVR-BKK or YVR-SGN? HKG might be possible even though there are a ton of flights. Not sure about South America given aircraft utilization challenges.

While Calgary is a much smaller VFR market than Vancouver, there's also a lot less nonstop competition to Asia. Add to that the benefit from being WS' main hub, I could see WS launching HKG, with NRT, ICN, PEK and PVG as options.

[CloudInspector]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

The challenge for any WS Asian expansion out of YVR is that (1) Asia is already pretty well covered with lots of competition; (2) AC has strong market share; and (3) WS has very little brand recognition outside Canada. Maybe YVR-BKK or YVR-SGN? HKG might be possible even though there are a ton of flights. Not sure about South America given aircraft utilization challenges.

While Calgary is a much smaller VFR market than Vancouver, there's also a lot less nonstop competition to Asia. Add to that the benefit from being WS' main hub, I could see WS launching HKG, with NRT, ICN, PEK and PVG as options.

Just my opinion, but I think the benefits of using YVR as a Pacific hub outweigh the disadvantages. I can’t see many people backtracking 400 miles when there are there are a multitude of non-stop options available. It’s perfectly fine to enter a saturated market, you just need a strong product that differentiates itself from the rest. WS already uses YVR as a Hawai’i hub, with extra seasonal flights from YEG and YYC, I suspect Asia would follow a similar pattern.

Once again, just my two cents. And that’s about what it’s worth

[connect2source]

Glad to see Joe & The Juice coming to YVR, an absolute staple in European airports and one of my favourite options, amazing juices, coffees, sandwiches and hopefully the first of many new food options replacing YVR's rather pathetic choices.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I agree with your point about the economic growth that’s why I used SEA as an example too. If Vancouver’s economy is on fire, Seattle’s is supposed to be out of control on fire. Yet, they still added way fewer intl passengers than YVR.

Since when is economic activity limited to international flights? You're conveniently leaving out domestic numbers, which is an even more important indicator of economic boom in the US. Tack on domestic numbers, and SEA is outperforming YVR.

YVR YTD May overall increase 2.8% (+281,300 passengers)
SEA YTD MAY overall increase 3.4% (+632,500 passengers)

Over twice as many more passengers so far this year.

Originally Posted by CloudInspector

I can’t see many people backtracking 400 miles when there are there are a multitude of non-stop options available.

You'd be surprised to see how many miles people are prepared to backtrack to save 100$.

Originally Posted by Hourglass

The challenge for any WS Asian expansion out of YVR is that (1) Asia is already pretty well covered with lots of competition; (2) AC has strong market share; and (3) WS has very little brand recognition outside Canada. Maybe YVR-BKK or YVR-SGN? HKG might be possible even though there are a ton of flights. Not sure about South America given aircraft utilization challenges.

While Calgary is a much smaller VFR market than Vancouver, there's also a lot less nonstop competition to Asia. Add to that the benefit from being WS' main hub, I could see WS launching HKG, with NRT, ICN, PEK and PVG as options.

Spot on ! That being said, it will be a cold day in hell before your see a WS dreamliner in BKK or SGN.

[CloudInspector]

WestJet is building lounges and really making a play for the business traveller, which is a market that would pay the extra money to go non-stop.

[zahav]

WS specifically called YYC, YYZ, and YVR hubs, that isn't boosterism or trying to make YVR sound better, it is from the horse's mouth... And regardless of whether it's Mexico additions or not, it shows they do consider it important. YVR is also important as so many of the Asian carriers codeshare with WS, so it functions as a hub for the purposes of outbound and inbound connections, a key indicator of what constitues a hub. YEG and YVR used to be in the same category, but it seems WS themslves have clarified:

Frequency increases to popular domestic, transborder and international destinations from airline's hubs in Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto

CALGARY, July 22, 2019 /CNW/ - As part of its 2019/2020 seasonal winter schedule, today WestJet announced increased frequency and improved connectivity from its hubs to more destinations across its network.

WestJet's seasonal schedule for winter 2019/2020 features more flights from Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto to domestic, transborder, international and sun destinations and includes WestJet's seasonal service to both Paris and Nashville from Calgary, commencing earlier than past years on March 12 (Paris) and March 16 (Nashville). WestJet's popular daily summer seasonal service between Calgary and Portland (PDX) will also extend through winter.

"By executing on our hub strategy, we're improving schedules not only for guests in Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, but also building thousands of new connections for guests across the country," said Arved von zur Muehlen, WestJet Chief Commercial Officer. "This winter Canadians have more flights and better access to popular leisure and business destinations and will benefit from schedule improvements, frequency increases and improved connectivity across our growing global network."

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

WS specifically called YYC, YYZ, and YVR hubs, that isn't boosterism or trying to make YVR sound better, it is from the horse's mouth... And regardless of whether it's Mexico additions or not, it shows they do consider it important. YVR is also important as so many of the Asian carriers codeshare with WS, so it functions as a hub for the purposes of outbound and inbound connections, a key indicator of what constitues a hub. YEG and YVR used to be in the same category, but it seems WS themslves have clarified:

Frequency increases to popular domestic, transborder and international destinations from airline's hubs in Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto

CALGARY, July 22, 2019 /CNW/ - As part of its 2019/2020 seasonal winter schedule, today WestJet announced increased frequency and improved connectivity from its hubs to more destinations across its network.

WestJet's seasonal schedule for winter 2019/2020 features more flights from Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto to domestic, transborder, international and sun destinations and includes WestJet's seasonal service to both Paris and Nashville from Calgary, commencing earlier than past years on March 12 (Paris) and March 16 (Nashville). WestJet's popular daily summer seasonal service between Calgary and Portland (PDX) will also extend through winter.

"By executing on our hub strategy, we're improving schedules not only for guests in Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, but also building thousands of new connections for guests across the country," said Arved von zur Muehlen, WestJet Chief Commercial Officer. "This winter Canadians have more flights and better access to popular leisure and business destinations and will benefit from schedule improvements, frequency increases and improved connectivity across our growing global network."

The hub and spoke model is alive and well in Alberta, much to the displeasure of the folks in Edmonton....

[LeftCoaster]

Ya YVR is not a WestJet hub, and I'd say its going the other way rather than increasing.

YVR based passengers face more connections in YYZ and YYC today than they did over the last 5 years. They can call it whatever they want in the press release, Westjet has two hubs and a few other airports they also fly to, that's it.

As much as it would be great if WS and AC both hubbed in YVR, realistically the City can only support one major hub operation, and I'd much rather have AC than WS.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Ya YVR is not a WestJet hub, and I'd say its going the other way rather than increasing.

YVR based passengers face more connections in YYZ and YYC today than they did over the last 5 years. They can call it whatever they want in the press release, Westjet has two hubs and a few other airports they also fly to, that's it.

As much as it would be great if WS and AC both hubbed in YVR, realistically the City can only support one major hub operation, and I'd much rather have AC than WS.

YVR was once called a Westjet "focus city," along with YUL, I believe. Is the term "focus city" still valid for YVR, re: WS?

[LeftCoaster]

Yes I'd say YVR is a WestJet focus City.

Speaking of hubs, I was at YVR on Tuesday and grabbed a shot of the airport doing its best SFO impression:

[Johnny Aussie]

The term hub gets misused a lot. Hence my use of “hub” when discussing certain press releases or comments. An airline calling a city a hub with less than 10 departures a day is laughable. The term “operating base” or “main operating base” for an airport with the most number of flights for an airline would be more appropriate.

I think the term focus city is used by American carriers mainly. Not sure if any Canadian carrier has used that term.

But Westjet at YVR meets the criteria more of a focus city than a hub. I agree too much rather have an AC hub than WS. YVR is too small to have two carriers hubbed there.