PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Corner lot at 12th and Walnut that used to have a Cosi is being redeveloped: https://www.google.com/maps/place/12...!4d-75.1606651 Took pictures of all the permits but am rushed and don't have time to post. I'll post tomorrow. I can't tell from the permits what it will actually be.

Hmmm, the existing building isn't terribly old. I remember that as recently as the late 80s it was a surface parking lot. Looking through the zoning archive I see the building was constructed around 1988 and at first housed offices, with a medical supply store on the ground floor. XandO (later Cosi, after a merger) moved in in the late 90s.

The new permits I see don't seem to involve anything beyond renovations.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Hmmm, the existing building isn't terribly old. I remember that as recently as the late 80s it was a surface parking lot. Looking through the zoning archive I see the building was constructed around 1988 and at first housed offices, with a medical supply store on the ground floor. XandO (later Cosi, after a merger) moved in in the late 90s.

The new permits I see don't seem to involve anything beyond renovations.

Yeah, I don't think it's going to be a demo. But it's filling a spot on a key corner lot that's been vacant forever. Along with the Wendy's midrise, it will be good for that stretch of Walnut.

[Aaamazarite]

The Starbucks at 12th and Walnut is moving over to the former Cosi space-- so as per usual in Wash West, one empty front gets filled and another goes dark. That said, the Goldie Hoffman Garage (as I call it) has been pretty good at filling its spaces so I wouldn't be surprised is there's something already ready to go in the starbucks space. If not, it'll make for a barren side of the 1200 block of Walnut Street-- Starbucks moved, Common Ground moved, and the back of the weed store fills the third storefront with blankness.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

The Starbucks at 12th and Walnut is moving over to the former Cosi space-- so as per usual in Wash West, one empty front gets filled and another goes dark. That said, the Goldie Hoffman Garage (as I call it) has been pretty good at filling its spaces so I wouldn't be surprised is there's something already ready to go in the starbucks space. If not, it'll make for a barren side of the 1200 block of Walnut Street-- Starbucks moved, Common Ground moved, and the back of the weed store fills the third storefront with blankness.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, lots of recycling/musical chairs in this area. But that garage will probably disappear eventually anyway in favor of a large mixed use project with underground parking, run in whole or in part by Sonder.

[jsbrook]

Came across this article. Such an interesting model. https://austin.towers.net/airbnb-pow...6mJp-0kO456r2I Not sure that our laws in Philly allow for it either. Anyone know? Not sure what I think about it personally, yet, for this city. I would love to buy a place in a setup like this in DC, and it's probably the perfect city for it with Congress members and many others in DC intermittently or periodically but with other primary residences elsewhere. I'm not sure how it would impact housing affordability in a city like ours or if I would want it here.

[rb233541]

It's an interesting concept--more interesting to me than the current Sonder expansion that seems to be happening in the city. Sonder feels like a bubble to me. What happens in the event that Sonder goes under, is the apartment market suddenly flooded with a ton of apartment units that were previously essentially "hotel rooms"?

The whole thing is about who is carrying the risk--with Natiivo, I'd be curious what happens if your unit doesn't rent out. Does everyone in the building get a share of all income from rentals or is it on a per unit basis? With Sonder, I assume the apartment building is directly leasing a block of units to Sonder and Sonder bears the risk of a unit going unrented on any given evening.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by rb233541

It's an interesting concept--more interesting to me than the current Sonder expansion that seems to be happening in the city. Sonder feels like a bubble to me. What happens in the event that Sonder goes under, is the apartment market suddenly flooded with a ton of apartment units that were previously essentially "hotel rooms"?

The whole thing is about who is carrying the risk--with Natiivo, I'd be curious what happens if your unit doesn't rent out. Does everyone in the building get a share of all income from rentals or is it on a per unit basis? With Sonder, I assume the apartment building is directly leasing a block of units to Sonder and Sonder bears the risk of a unit going unrented on any given evening.

I would think individuals bear the risk for Natiivo for their own units. I don't really see another way, especially because everyone's situation and how much they want to Airbnb theirs is different. I might live in my 6 months a year and rent it out the other six while you rent yours out almost the whole year and someone else only rents out for summer weekends. Or I might use it every two weeks throughout the whole year and try to rent it out for 2 week clips in between. Seems like they are fully transferable in sale to another person too.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by rb233541

It's an interesting concept--more interesting to me than the current Sonder expansion that seems to be happening in the city. Sonder feels like a bubble to me. What happens in the event that Sonder goes under, is the apartment market suddenly flooded with a ton of apartment units that were previously essentially "hotel rooms"?

The whole thing is about who is carrying the risk--with Natiivo, I'd be curious what happens if your unit doesn't rent out. Does everyone in the building get a share of all income from rentals or is it on a per unit basis? With Sonder, I assume the apartment building is directly leasing a block of units to Sonder and Sonder bears the risk of a unit going unrented on any given evening.

Looks like in the current Natiivo's, owners can live there 100% of the time, rent it out 100% of the time or anywhere in between: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/bus...231650118.html

"In contrast to the Niido rentals, which allowed renters to profit from short-term homesharing up to 180 days a year, Natiivo owners won’t have a cap for how long they can host guests.

“Our buyers have the flexibility and opportunity to live 100 percent of the time ... or have that investment and have that investment work for them,” Hernandez said."

If this came to DC, I would 100% do it. I am at my DC office enough that I have been flirting with buying a place. But can't really stand the idea of throwing down all that cash for it to sit idle 75% of the time. I can't/shouldn't afford a single family home in DC that I could more easily Airbnb, and I really don't like the idea of illegally Airbnbing a one-bedroom condo in violation of board rules. This would be perfect.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Thanks for the info. Yeah, lots of recycling/musical chairs in this area. But that garage will probably disappear eventually anyway in favor of a large mixed use project with underground parking, run in whole or in part by Sonder.

Dont think so, they have been putting money into it for the last couple of years. All types of concrete repairs and the painting they put on the facade indicates it's not likely to be demolished.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Dont think so, they have been putting money into it for the last couple of years. All types of concrete repairs and the painting they put on the facade indicates it's not likely to be demolished.

I think it will eventually. Not in the near term.

[Groundhog]

So sorry to be off topic here, but did the Philadelphia tag (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/tag...g=philadelphia) stop working? I've been using it for years now and I've been getting error messages saying it's not working anymore for a bit over a week now. Anyone else having this issue/know of a work around?

Sorry if this was discussed somewhere that I missed.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Dont think so, they have been putting money into it for the last couple of years. All types of concrete repairs and the painting they put on the facade indicates it's not likely to be demolished.

I've seen that garage marketed for sale in the past as a potential overbuild. Can build several stories above the garage apparently, so maybe that's what they're planning.

edit: nvm wrong garage, was thinking of the one on 1600 sansom

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Larry King

I've seen that garage marketed for sale in the past as a potential overbuild. Can build several stories above the garage apparently, so maybe that's what they're planning.

edit: nvm wrong garage, was thinking of the one on 1600 sansom

1608 Sansom. It's happening. Either an overbuild or complete teardown and new build. This is the Sonder project.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

1608 Sansom. It's happening. Either an overbuild or complete teardown and new build. This is the Sonder project.

The garage with Philadelphia Chutney and Federal Donuts? That thing is an eyesore but has some pretty legit commercial businesses.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Londonee

The garage with Philadelphia Chutney and Federal Donuts? That thing is an eyesore but has some pretty legit commercial businesses.

Yep, that one. https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...portfolio.html I had thought it would be a demo, but perhaps it's an overbuild plan in line with what Larry King said. It is good retail in the base of that garage. Agreed. If it is a demo, some of those stores should just fill the vacancies and /or replace the shitty retail on the 1500 block of Chestnut. Those tenants should reach out to MSC or the owners of those properties directly ASAP. It is close to the current location, and that block is the hole in the donut of Rittenhouse.

[eixample]

1500 block of Chestnut is fine. Not every part of center city needs to be bougie

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by eixample

1500 block of Chestnut is fine. Not every part of center city needs to be bougie

Well, whatever one may think about some of the existing tenants, the block also has 3, maybe 4, vacant storefronts. And has for some time.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Yep, that one. https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...portfolio.html I had thought it would be a demo, but perhaps it's an overbuild plan in line with what Larry King said. It is good retail in the base of that garage. Agreed. If it is a demo, some of those stores should just fill the vacancies and /or replace the shitty retail on the 1500 block of Chestnut. Those tenants should reach out to MSC or the owners of those properties directly ASAP. It is close to the current location, and that block is the hole in the donut of Rittenhouse.

there has been pretty big change on that block. What retailers are you hoping to replace? Liberty travel? The bank? Staples? The pizza place on the north side? i believe there are a couple new places on the north side in the rehabbed building that houses the beauty school. You need to visit the 1000 block of market before you talk about how terrible things are on 1500 blk of chestnut

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by cardeza

there has been pretty big change on that block. What retailers are you hoping to replace? Liberty travel? The bank? Staples? The pizza place on the north side? i believe there are a couple new places on the north side in the rehabbed building that houses the beauty school. You need to visit the 1000 block of market before you talk about how terrible things are on 1500 blk of chestnut

Nothing actually needs to be replaced. There are 4 vacant storefronts. But I wouldn't shed any tears if Popeyes and Happy Mark left. The pizza place is just fine. The 1000 block of Market also has lots of vacancies. I'm sure they will fill in as the "Fashion District" across the street gets underway.

[Capsule F]

There is only so much retail that can go in a city anymore. Have any of you been to Manhattan recently?

Unless places are filled in with dining there aren't many options. Its not just a Philly thing.