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Originally Posted by jsbrook
^ While I think Duck is off-base too, there is a lot of fail in your post too, Crawford. Enough that I felt compelled to comment when I don't really have a dog in this fight. You are purposely conflating cheap materials and systems with design choices.
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The design choices are very much related to the materials and systems. It's part of the tenant-driven package. The implication was that developers are somehow "cheaping out" on providing what the market demands, which within the context of Park Ave. towers, is is extremely expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook
And, no, it's not always the 'sole' goal of developers to make money. Sometimes they also want to create an iconic building, and this was a stated goal with Verre, One Vandy, and 111 W. 57th. And, while it's not a primary consideration of most buyers and even less so commercial tenants, better design can also mean more money and better sales and lesser design worse.
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Yes, but this is all within the ego-driven developer-specific context of making as much money as possible. Macklowe and his ilk don't think 432 Park is less iconic than 111 W.57th because it's a box or because skyscraper nerds don't think it's as cool as 111. The GM Building is as iconic as it gets among developers, much moreso than 111, because it's the marble palace that prints money. And it isn't that Michael Stern is more design-inclined than Macklowe, it's that his tastes more closely align with yours (and mine).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook
Yes, One57 was the first, but it is also the ugly step sister of supertalls, and I feel fairly confident that this plays at least some role in its poorer sales compared to its more attractive siblings.
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One57 had great sales, far beyond expectations. Barnett has made a ton of money there, with something like 70% sold before construction completion. What "more attractive sibling" in recent years had better sales? I don't think even 220 CPS is 70% sold.
Also, One57 is an odd building in the context of this conversation, because it isn't really a box, and actually looks very un-New Yorky and more like the stuff you see in Shanghai/Dubai, with flashy materials and already-dated design.