Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by CityTech

They can cancel it as its over a year late.. Past that there's a cancellation procedure in the contract. However it means finding someone new to finish the work and it would take months just to procure that and more months just to get them up to speed. Would easily delay the project by an additional full year or more.

I'm not talking about construction. I'm talking about the 30-year maintenance contract. If someone was building you a house and missed four deadlines, would you want them to also be responsible for the landscaping?

[Badyouken]

Originally Posted by sseguin

I have posted the latest FEDCO presentation on the O-Train Fans site.
Especially for those curious to see what was shown.
https://www.otrainfans.ca/news/confederation-line-update-fedco-july-10-2019

Thank you!

[Badyouken]

Some interesting quotes from the presentation:

Contingent on the timing of receipt of Substantial Completion
notice, the City expects to provide an opinion that RTG has
achieved Substantial Completion; and,

It is expected that the Independent Certifier will issue a
Substantial Completion certificate shortly after the City
provides a positive opinion on Substantial Completion.

So the city fully expects to accept the substantial completion notice this time.

Minor final software upgrades and final safety certificate of software is
expected to be completed on Friday July 12, 2019.

Not as pessimistic as the other reports on software.

On occasion during Trial Running, the public might not see
trains running on the Confederation Line. This is normal as
there are many different systems being tested at different times
throughout this period.

I think they're anticipating posts on this forum...

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Badyouken

This is all good news, but I'll believe it when I see it. Sounds like Manconi is pleased, which is a nice change from last FEDCO meeting.

Trying to reconcile this with our friend Corvulpes' account - hopefully things will run smoothly.

Good Day.

I do not know Corvulpes sources, but CTV news coverage and interviews with Manconi and Watson on the 2019-07-10 at 11:35 pm (+/-) late-night newscast had a tid-bit not covered elsewhere in the coverages printed, that would seem to speak to his sources' concerns and opinions of readyness......

words to the effect
that in the recent heat, monitoring the temperatures in the LRVs and in the drivers' cabs, that the A/C was not yet operating to full effectiveness (intimating very very -warm-)
and
we can expect there to still be small bugs and difficulties that will be ironed out as we go along (intimating -several- remaining -difficulties-)

OUCH...... umnnnn, hello, hot is hot. If the A/C cannot yet handle an EMPTY vehicle in a regular Ottawa summer heat wave, what will happen in a FULL vehicle ?
That's a show-stopper for me......no way I'll ride a hot crowded vehicle. I get off buses when that happens, and walk. In the heat. And the sun. A long way.

This is not good.

[mykl]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

I do not know Corvulpes sources, but CTV news coverage and interviews with Manconi and Watson on the 2019-07-10 at 11:35 pm (+/-) late-night newscast had a tid-bit not covered elsewhere in the coverages printed, that would seem to speak to his sources' concerns and opinions of readyness......

words to the effect
that in the recent heat, monitoring the temperatures in the LRVs and in the drivers' cabs, that the A/C was not yet operating to full effectiveness (intimating very very -warm-)
and
we can expect there to still be small bugs and difficulties that will be ironed out as we go along (intimating -several- remaining -difficulties-)

OUCH...... umnnnn, hello, hot is hot. If the A/C cannot yet handle an EMPTY vehicle in a regular Ottawa summer heat wave, what will happen in a FULL vehicle ?
That's a show-stopper for me......no way I'll ride a hot crowded vehicle. I get off buses when that happens, and walk. In the heat. And the sun. A long way.

This is not good.

Surprisingly you've contradicted yourself by quoting the issue as being in the driver's cabs which are closed off from the rest of the train, then by saying you wouldn't ride in those conditions (you won't be in the driver's cab!)

This was also discussed in a Citizen article today. "One issue that has come up recently is the air conditioning in the train cabs where operators work. Alstom installed sunscreens and fans and increased the air circulation, making the conditions "acceptable" for the city, Manconi said."

So the problem has been rectified, or certainly improved.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by mykl

Surprisingly you've contradicted yourself by quoting the issue as being in the driver's cabs which are closed off from the rest of the train, then by saying you wouldn't ride in those conditions (you won't be in the driver's cab!)

This was also discussed in a Citizen article today. "One issue that has come up recently is the air conditioning in the train cabs where operators work. Alstom installed sunscreens and fans and increased the air circulation, making the conditions "acceptable" for the city, Manconi said."

So the problem has been rectified, or certainly improved.

If the problem is in the cab, it could be because the train is empty. Without people in the cars to heat them up, the A/C won’t cycle on very often, meaning the cab, which does have someone in it, will get hotter and hotter. Properly the cab should have its own climate control system, but it probably doesn’t.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by mykl

Surprisingly you've contradicted yourself by quoting the issue as being in the driver's cabs which are closed off from the rest of the train, then by saying you wouldn't ride in those conditions (you won't be in the driver's cab!)

This was also discussed in a Citizen article today. "One issue that has come up recently is the air conditioning in the train cabs where operators work. Alstom installed sunscreens and fans and increased the air circulation, making the conditions "acceptable" for the city, Manconi said."

So the problem has been rectified, or certainly improved.

Good Day.

Thanks for the update from the Citizen..... do you have a link ?

I did not have a link so as to repeat the clip, and was typing from memory from the CTV coverage at 11:35 pm, and so indicated by "words to the effect", not "quote"...... and CTV does not put up their video of the newscast until 3 days later, so you can castigate me then. I typed what I recalled, and did not recall him saying what you have quoted from the Citizen. I did recall him pausing in the clip, and slightly altering which he was saying .... the vehicle , the driver's cab. Take that for what you will, the pause could have been significant, or not. I chose to get the info up on the board as reasonably as I could, including that the City could iron out bugs as we progress. His -small- was to me -large-, and I stated why.

@roger1818 - thanks for a possibility as to what is transpiring with this issue.

EnJoy!

EDIT: the Ottawa Citizen link :
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...with-public-launch-expected-in-september

[Gat-Train]

Hindsight's 20/20, but who thought it was a good idea to run brand-new, untested trains on a brand new subway line? The line probably would be open to service by now if they had just decided to use tried-and-true, off-the-shelf trains instead of an untested model. Why couldn't we have used the same trains as Edmonton?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Hindsight's 20/20, but who thought it was a good idea to run brand-new, untested trains on a brand new subway line? The line probably would be open to service by now if they had just decided to use tried-and-true, off-the-shelf trains instead of an untested model. Why couldn't we have used the same trains as Edmonton?

If they hadn't thought of running the LRT on some suburban street corridor they could have also built a fully automated system with fully enclosed climate controlled platforms, platform screen doors and higher capacity metro rolling stock.

Nice as the Confederation Line is, there were some very poor choices made at the outset, that we'll have to live with. The worst part is that they don't want to run in a non-segregated corridor ever.

[lrt's friend]

My brother rode the Trillium Line for several years and commented that the Talent trains had inadequate air conditioning for Ottawa's climate.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My brother rode the Trillium Line for several years and commented that the Talent trains had inadequate air conditioning for Ottawa's climate.

I've personally never had an issue with the AC on those twins except when I'm sitting directly in the sun.

The heating is fine on those trains too.

[CityTech]

Given that public launch is not until mid-September at the earliest, fully functional A/C shouldn't be a deal breaker for handover. They have a long time to fix it before its needed. We only need AC for a few dozen days a year and they're pretty much never before June 1 or after September 15. Ottawa's not a particularly hot city. Acceptable temperature goes up to 28C and our average daily highs are less than that even in midsummer.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I've personally never had an issue with the AC on those twins except when I'm sitting directly in the sun.

The heating is fine on those trains too.

There is a good possibility that you will be in the sun on the Trillium Line in the afternoon. My brother mentioned this to me a number of times including this past weekend. He rode it daily for several years. Hopefully the LINT trains have better ventilation. I can't comment on this since I use the Trillium Line only a few times a year. However, any train with large windows that are exposed to the sun can heat up the train cabin very quickly without adequate AC. I expect that the ventilation can be adjusted sufficiently to make crowded trains comfortable.

[Corvulpes]

a

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

It's actually quite cool in the passenger compartment

Hopefully not too much so? I find OC Transpo buses are often sickeningly over air conditioned in the summer. There's times where I've actually had to get off the bus in July-August because its freezing cold on the bus.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

It's actually quite cool in the passenger compartments, the cabs are the issue as they don't have their own AC and they are essentially glass boxes. They're working to resolve the issues. It's only a problem with some trains, others seem to do fine.

Good Day.

Thx for the update...... it's important (on both sides of the cabin !) .

Kinda speaks to roger1818 's analysis of the problem.

[Corvulpes]

a

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

As it is, it is pretty cold so if you're dressed for summer you will be chilly. Luckily you're not likely to be on board more than 20 mins or so, for now. I believe it's colder than a typical air conditioned building/office.

That's pretty ridiculous but I suppose with no one on board to heat it up that's expected.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If they hadn't thought of running the LRT on some suburban street corridor they could have also built a fully automated system with fully enclosed climate controlled platforms, platform screen doors and higher capacity metro rolling stock.

Nice as the Confederation Line is, there were some very poor choices made at the outset, that we'll have to live with. The worst part is that they don't want to run in a non-segregated corridor ever.

I understand going with LRT instead of light metro. What doesn't make sense is using a vehicle that hasn't been used once in North America. There are literally dozens of LRT systems on this continent—we could easily have gone with a proven model if we hadn't insisted on this absurd policy of municipal protectionism.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I understand going with LRT instead of light metro. What doesn't make sense is using a vehicle that hasn't been used once in North America. There are literally dozens of LRT systems on this continent—we could easily have gone with a proven model if we hadn't insisted on this absurd policy of municipal protectionism.

The choice of train was lumped together with the bid, each of the different bids have a different train manufacturer. So we had to weigh and consider the entire system, not just the train.

Also by that logic, just only ever buy from the 1st company that appears in the region giving that company a monopoly to just do whatever the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 they want.