Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[nname]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

24/7 service will allow nightbus resources to be reallocated to providing more frequent service on some routes or making new routes. 24 hour service on the Expo line with a nightbus from White Rock to Langley via Surrey Central and Guildford would be a start, as well as shortened N17 and maybe an hourly service to PoCo and maybe even Maple Ridge.

Alternatively, they can just reallocate the resource needed to run 24 hours SkyTrain directly into extending the nightbus. Either way it would be bleeding money that could have been better spent on something that's more urgent.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

I know that it would be needless but they could shift the platform over and do another Spanish solution for outbound trains? That way the space, isn't a complete waste...

That'd definitely help during game days.

[Waders]

TransLink's switch to distance-travelled fares delayed to 2022

I am quite disappointed with the delay due to the need to upgrade the Compass Card system to handle the fare structure change.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Waders

TransLink's switch to distance-travelled fares delayed to 2022

I am quite disappointed with the delay due to the need to upgrade the Compass Card system to handle the fare structure change.

JFC wasn't that the whole point of the system?

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

JFC wasn't that the whole point of the system?

Something about fare evasion. Hard to tell, given how much we had to dump into upgrading the rest of the system and subsequent debugging before it was reliable enough to go live.

[ilikeredheads]

tbh, I think it has more to do with complications of switching to distance-based fares while keeping the 90min transfer window. Ideally, the transfer window should be removed but this would create a whole new level of PR nightmare and pitchforks. It's just much more simple without having to also deal with the transfer window.

For example, what if I take the bus and then transfer to skytrain? Will I get dinged on the base fare twice?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

tbh, I think it has more to do with complications of switching to distance-based fares while keeping the 90min transfer window. Ideally, the transfer window should be removed but this would create a whole new level of PR nightmare and pitchforks. It's just much more simple without having to also deal with the transfer window.

For example, what if I take the bus and then transfer to skytrain? Will I get dinged on the base fare twice?

Would enlarging the transfer window to 105 or 120 minutes help?

[nname]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

tbh, I think it has more to do with complications of switching to distance-based fares while keeping the 90min transfer window. Ideally, the transfer window should be removed but this would create a whole new level of PR nightmare and pitchforks. It's just much more simple without having to also deal with the transfer window.

For example, what if I take the bus and then transfer to skytrain? Will I get dinged on the base fare twice?

I think this is what they meant:

Card based:
Data on compass ticket: [2 zones, adult, expires 2019/06/21 4:36pm, last tap 2019/06/21 4:12pm]
No central server needed

Account based:
Data on compass ticket: [account 9823 2985 2953 0923 0235]
Data on a central server for the account: [system entry at Joyce, exit Waterfront, second entry at Waterfront, adult, bus-transfer credit enabled, expires 2019/06/21 4:36pm, last tap 2019/06/21 4:12pm]

If that's the case, it seems like just software upgrade, which make sense as these kind of software are written specially for each customer to cater their exact need.

[NetMapel]

When we switch to distance-based fare with a compatible Compass card, I really hope Translink take that opportunity to also start partnering up with appropriate businesses in close proximity to skytrain stations to allow payment via Compass card as well. One of the best thing about using the public transit systems in places like Taiwan and Japan is that convenient stores, vending machines and some other smaller businesses around their metro systems allow you to just tap the reloadable card to pay for stuff super fast. If Translink could offer slightly lower profit percentage sharing for themselves compared to credit cards, they might be able to convince some businesses to install NFC tap machines that read Compass cards. That should open up an additional revenue stream for Translink as well.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DSn3OPsCEE

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

When we switch to distance-based fare with a compatible Compass card, I really hope Translink take that opportunity to also start partnering up with appropriate businesses in close proximity to skytrain stations to allow payment via Compass card as well...

IC cards are essentially reloadable cash cards which is a huge part of the appeal in Japan and Asian countries where cash payments typically take precedence over debit cards and credit cards.

While I love IC card payment at vending machines/konbinis/etc as much as any person (I lived in Japan so I know), what an IC card would do in an Asian country is the same as what any tap-enabled card or device would here in N America. Tap credit cards and mobile phone wallets are more universal, and already offer the kind of convenience (or even better convenience) that transit card tapping would. Many new vending machines are being equipped with tap-to-pay terminals for CCs.

So I view any such integration as redundant and ultimately unnecessary, esp here where paying with a CC would typically net some sort of cash back or points reward, whereas paying with Compass would not. Sure we could do it, but... what it adds in the end is mostly a novelty rather than anything groundbreaking as far as paying for a soda can goes, especially since we are not a vending machine-loving country in the same way as Japan is.

[Migrant_Coconut]

TransLink's already partnered with VISA - maybe they could collaborate on a rewards system?

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

IC cards are essentially reloadable cash cards which is a huge part of the appeal in Japan and Asian countries where cash payments typically take precedence over debit cards and credit cards.

While I love IC card payment at vending machines/konbinis/etc as much as any person (I lived in Japan so I know), what an IC card would do in an Asian country is the same as what any tap-enabled card or device would here in N America. Tap credit cards and mobile phone wallets are more universal, and already offer the kind of convenience (or even better convenience) that transit card tapping would. Many new vending machines are being equipped with tap-to-pay terminals for CCs.

So I view any such integration as redundant and ultimately unnecessary, esp here where paying with a CC would typically net some sort of cash back or points reward, whereas paying with Compass would not. Sure we could do it, but... what it adds in the end is mostly a novelty rather than anything groundbreaking as far as paying for a soda can goes, especially since we are not a vending machine-loving country in the same way as Japan is.

I totally get what you're saying and understand your sentiment. I guess I am mostly looking at this from a choices/options perspective. More choices for consumers if they want to buy something quick and have Compass card more handy, more revenue streams for Translink, and I certainly have experienced vending machine's credit card tap sensor not working as well. Most importantly, it will be more helpful for tourists to more comfortably and confidently spend on little things. When I visited those Asian countries, I'm out and about walking and taking the trains to lots of places. I get thirsty and enjoy using their transit reloadable card to buy stuff easily from convenience stores/vending machines easily and avoid language barrier. I would assume tourists would appreciate an easy-to-use payment system as well When I travel to another country, I don't necessarily want to take out my visa to buy stuff from some random stores/vending machines for security purpose. So I think their IC card usage brings certain security in my purchase that I appreciate.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I totally get what you're saying and understand your sentiment. I guess I am mostly looking at this from a choices/options perspective. More choices for consumers if they want to buy something quick and have Compass card more handy, more revenue streams for Translink, and I certainly have experienced vending machine's credit card tap sensor not working as well. Most importantly, it will be more helpful for tourists to more comfortably and confidently spend on little things. When I visited those Asian countries, I'm out and about walking and taking the trains to lots of places. I get thirsty and enjoy using their transit reloadable card to buy stuff easily from convenience stores/vending machines easily and avoid language barrier. I would assume tourists would appreciate an easy-to-use payment system as well When I travel to another country, I don't necessarily want to take out my visa to buy stuff from some random stores/vending machines for security purpose. So I think their IC card usage brings certain security in my purchase that I appreciate.

Well, if it is costless and effortless, then that would warrant an exception and they should definitely go for it TransLink has had a knack for getting new customer service amenities/improvements without paying a cent lately, thanks to partnerships (i.e. the kiosks by Lamar, the upcoming on-board wi-fi from Shaw)

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I totally get what you're saying and understand your sentiment. I guess I am mostly looking at this from a choices/options perspective. More choices for consumers if they want to buy something quick and have Compass card more handy, more revenue streams for Translink, and I certainly have experienced vending machine's credit card tap sensor not working as well. Most importantly, it will be more helpful for tourists to more comfortably and confidently spend on little things. When I visited those Asian countries, I'm out and about walking and taking the trains to lots of places. I get thirsty and enjoy using their transit reloadable card to buy stuff easily from convenience stores/vending machines easily and avoid language barrier. I would assume tourists would appreciate an easy-to-use payment system as well When I travel to another country, I don't necessarily want to take out my visa to buy stuff from some random stores/vending machines for security purpose. So I think their IC card usage brings certain security in my purchase that I appreciate.

If Translink were to start doing this, they would most definitely stop accepting credit cards to allow you to load your Compass Card.. they won't 'eat' the charge. Places I've been where you can use your transit card to pay for items only accept cash to load the cards.

Ron.

[MIPS]

I seem to recall that TransLink inked a deal with Pepsi to install their machines in the system exclusively. If you can persuade the members of the board that you can maintain a profitable and trouble-free lineup of cash/tap vending machines I'm sure Pepsi will start raising hell about competition setting up in their turf.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

If Translink were to start doing this, they would most definitely stop accepting credit cards to allow you to load your Compass Card.. they won't 'eat' the charge. Places I've been where you can use your transit card to pay for items only accept cash to load the cards.

Ron.

Just to add my 2 cents to this so we don't get people thinking the wrong thing.

It's against the credit card company polices, and violates anti-money laundering laws to pay credit with credit. Hence why you MUST be charged a fee if you're buying prepaid credit/debit cards, and you usually can only buy those with debit or cash. You are also usually charged interest immediately since it's technically a cash advance. (US debit cards which operate on the credit card network, actually use "cash advance" as the way to debit the account. Interac does not.)

This is also why you can't get refunded to your credit card more than the original purchase. To do otherwise triggers anti-money laundering watchdogs.

THAT is why you see people with grocery bags full of cash on those surveillance videos at the casino. If we had IC cards that could store more than $200 on it, you'd see them using those cards and reloading them instead, since you could dump cash onto the cards and then trade the cards. Vending machines draw much less scrutiny than a cashier.

To that end, technology has changed and a lot of it is about control now. So your card mostly only operates as an ID token in the system. The stored value is entirely informative, and doesn't substitute for the centrally stored value.

[Sheba]

TransLink set to extend late-night service, but don’t bet on more SkyTrain

Metro Vancouver residents may soon see an improvement in options for late-night transit, but it’s looking unlikely they’ll get extended SkyTrain hours.

On Thursday, TransLink is set to unveil the results of a review of late-night service, and changes are expected to be in the works.

TransLink announced a feasibility study into the possibility of extended SkyTrain hours on weekends in December, 2017.

At the time, TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond told Global News the agency would look at whether it was possible to balance the need for overnight track maintenance with the demand for late night service.

TransLink has previously resisted extending the hours, arguing crews have just four hours to perform critical maintenance on the aging — and growing — network.

The results of that review were expected by mid-2018.

A year later than anticipated, the public will get a look at the results, and sources tell Global News that what they’ll see is a plan to beef up night bus service.

Whether that means more routes or more frequent service remains unclear. An expansion of SkyTrain hours — the last train leaves downtown at 1:16 a.m. — is not expected.

...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Good to know there won't be a station at Willow/Heather.

[Sheba]

North Shore to SkyTrain express bus service could hit the road next year

The TransLink Mayors’ Council is expected to free up money for an express bus service that would link the North Shore to SkyTrain service on the mainland.

A proposal set to be debated Thursday would shift funding to the new route, which would run from the Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver across the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge to an existing SkyTrain station in Burnaby.

The plan has been pushed by both the City of North Vancouver and the District of North Vancouver, with both councils unanimously endorsing it earlier this year.

It was also one of several recommendations outlined in a report on the future of transit on the North Shore that was released last year.

That report, from the Integrated North Shore Transportation Planning Project, listed the service as a key short-term action for the region.

Both councils suggested Metrotown Station as a possible destination for the route, but Brentwood Town Centre has also been floated. Both stations could also be included in the route.

The proposal in front of TransLink doesn’t have many details, but the transit authority is working with the city and district to review possible alignments for the route.

The route is expected to be funded to the tune of $650,000 per year, money that would be taken from a planned expansion of the 231 Harbourside bus service in North Vancouver, which was allocated in the Phase Two Investment Plan.

That expansion was meant to service a planned mixed-use community in the area by 2020 or 2021.

But TransLink said the community “has not developed at the rate initially anticipated,” and is looking to shift the funding to a more urgent need while keeping the Harbourside route as it is.

“An express bus service from Phibbs Exchange to the SkyTrain network may make transit more competitive and reliable,” the TransLink briefing read.

If funds are moved, the city and district anticipate the service could be up and running as early as the spring of 2020.

Congestion has been an issue on the North Shore bridges for years, but solutions on how to fix it with public transit have been slow to materialize.

The B.C. government said last month it is working with TransLink and municipal funding partners to explore a potential rapid transit crossing from North Vancouver to the mainland.

The feasibility study came after the Integrated North Shore Transportation Planning Project proposed a connection between Lonsdale City Centre and downtown Vancouver.

The project also recommended a review to determine transit priorities around the Lions Gate and Ironworkers bridgeheads and increased SeaBus service.

The bus route from Phibbs Exchange to the Burnaby SkyTrain stations was one of six proposed B-Line routes said to be in the planning stages at TransLink last March.

[Sheba]

Late-night SkyTrain service on weekends not an option

TransLink won’t extend SkyTrain service to run late on weekends, saying it would undermine its ability to maintain and expand the system.

Instead, the transit authority will expand night bus service, adding new service areas and exploring the possibility of a new express bus that will shadow the region’s SkyTrain lines and make a limited number of stops.

In December 2017, TransLink announced that it would “explore the feasibility” of running the SkyTrain later on Friday and Saturday nights in response to requests from the public, municipal leaders, police and others in the community.

On Thursday, staff presented the results of the study to the Mayors’ Council.

TransLink began by forming a late-night advisory committee with business and hospitality groups, law enforcement, taxi associations, transportation agencies and university students. The goal was to find out challenges and concerns, and come up with options to take entertainment district patrons and workers out of town.

Then, it commissioned a technical study on the feasibility of late night SkyTrain service, which was conducted by an engineer.

That study said that extending service to run through Friday and Saturday nights will cut the number of hours available each week to do maintenance and capital projects. To make up that time, service would have to be cut on weeknights and statutory holidays.

“If you’re going to run 24/2 on weekends, you have to find that maintenance time somewhere else,” said Steve Vanagas, TransLink’s vice-president of customer communications and public affairs.

It determined that the business case is weak, in part because ridership would take a hit with reduced weekday service hours.

To provide more service and get people home safely, TransLink plans to invest further in the night bus system. Currently, there are 10 bus routes that run through the night, taking people throughout the region.

Vanagas said a lot of people were not aware of the existing night bus system, so TransLink recently ran a campaign to encourage people to use the bus. He said there was a 20-per-cent increase in ridership, year-over-year, as a result.

Plans are under way to add frequency and capacity to existing routes, and expand to areas such as Port Coquitlam and Surrey. It will realign the route to the airport and beef up service to the University of B.C. These changes will be rolled out by this fall.

To address concerns that buses are too slow, TransLink is exploring the possibility of running a night bus express service that mirrors the SkyTrain and Canada lines and is more appealing, faster and easier to decipher than existing services.

If it stops at all stations, the bus could run from Vancouver to Surrey in just over an hour. If it makes a limited number of stops, it’s believed it could be competitive with SkyTrain.

It could run seven nights per week and begin as soon as train service ends for the night and be on the road until it restarts in the morning.

Coquitlam Mayor Richard Stewart, who has long wondered why the train hours couldn’t be extended, said he believes the express bus route has a lot of potential.

“From my perspective, that is the solution I think we’re probably looking for,” he said.

Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart said he has used a similar bus in London and found it worked well. He thinks an express night bus is “an excellent idea.”

The estimated cost is $4 million per year, and if it goes ahead the bus route could not be funded until the third phase of the region’s 10-year transportation plan. There is no projection for when it could go into service.

TransLink will also work with taxi and ride-hailing companies to see how their services can fill the void. According to the provincial government, ride hailing is expected to be in place in late 2019.

no image credit included with article