The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Reecemartin]

https://youtu.be/inmldNJXY7Y

A video on the future of rapid transit in York Region, featuring TTC, GO and YRT/Viva!

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Are you kidding? Our Prime Minister has already accepted misuse of the word for other circumstances.

But... of course I was joking. We should not use that word.

I know you're joking - maybe it would get the PM's attention but everyone else will immediately ignore it.

[Chadillaccc]

The City of Calgary has announced their plans for the first phase of the Airport LRT connection, and is seeking public input on phase 2. It's going to be a dual system, and will have a primary hub with a stacked station. Phase 1 will be an extension of the blue line from its current terminus at Saddletown with a new station 800 meters north, then turning on to airport trail and using the new tunnel under the runway (which it was built for) to reach the airport from the east.

For phase 2, the city is soliciting public input about the alignment and technology it will use from 96 Avenue Station on the Green Line. The recommended option is an automated people mover, with Vancouver's Canada Line hyundai rotem used as an example. The good thing about phase 2 is that it looks to be grade separated all the way to the Green Line. The recommended option is best in my opinion as it connects a fairly significant population to the rapid transit network. The "future station" shown in the option maps is the future rail from Calgary through Red Deer to Edmonton. Two stops in each city plus one in Red Deer.

Either way, very happy to see the city moving ahead with plans for this.


The station...





The alignment options...







Full story here: https://livewirecalgary.com/2019/06/20/calgary-airport-transit-plan-set-for-public-input/

[Nouvellecosse]

Ok I just whipped up a schematic for my proposed initial Halifax LRT. When considering the proposal I came to several conclusions:

- It needs to be fast and therefore not in mixed traffic. Therefore there are several tunneled or elevated sections.
- It's impossible for the whole route to be tunnelled or elevated and therefore it's necessary to claim space on the surface regardless of political contentiousness
- It will be necessary to spend money if we're going to get something worthwhile for the long term.

As a result of these conclusions, the route will be:

- operated with LRT vehicles of similar dimension to TTC street cars (stations on green line accommodate 60m long 2 car consists, others 30m long single car)
- centre lane on bridge operated as a single track two-way transit lane (one train on bridge at a time requiring about 2 min to cross)
- underground under North St. between the bridge and Connaught St and for a short section by passing the intersection of Connaught and Mumford.
- Elevated between Mumford and the rail corridor above the HSC annex parking area
- Elevated over the Dockyards parking area between the bridge and Barrington/Cogswell
- At surface level on Barrington between Cogswell and the train station with the street becoming a King Street-style semi-transit corridor.
- On new dedicated tracks between Mumford and Bedford with a mix of double tracking and single tracking with frequent sidings where space is limited
- Similar to commuter rail between Joseph Howe and Bedford with 1/2 of red line services resulting in the lowest service frequency
- On a dedicated ROW for a short section on Chebucto, Mumford, and Bedford Hwy (near Sunnyside Mall) created by widening the corridors.

[Nouvellecosse]

Ok I made a slight tweak showing the red line continue as a mixed-traffic streetcar following the current route #1 until it meets itself again at a transfer point at Oxford and North. I didn't show any of its stops since it would just have street level stops like a bus except they wouldn't be quite as frequent as the current route 1 which has excessively short stop spacing.

[scryer]

I know that we are kind of off on a Hali-tangent.... but whatever the other cities get enough focus :p .

Personally I think that Halifax should consider automated light rail like Vancouver's Canada line network. The whole mixed-traffic LRT business is a little dated and it shows time and time again, not to be a solution for rapid transit.

[Nouvellecosse]

The real advantages to an automated system would be a reduction in operating costs from not having to pay drivers and the ability to operate at super low headways. The proposal i posted would already be separate from traffic and therefore just as fast except for the streetcar section. Halifax won't need super low headways for a long time due to its small size and lower demand, and as a result won't need to pay as many drivers as if there were much higher headways so there's a lower benefit in our case. And the downside to automated light metros is that they need full separation from other traffic meaning that the corridor can be expensive. Most parts of Halifax don't have a suitable surface corridor and simply wouldn't be able to have an elevated structure due to political opposition (would only be possible if not blocking light and being visually obtrusive to a residential or commercial street) so that would require a lot more tunneling. In Vancouver, they lucked out with their first line which had a disused downtown tunnel left over from mainline railroads and outside of downtown an available corridor re-purposed from something else although I don't remember if it was a railway, hydro corridor or whatever.

I think the important thing to remember is that there's no such thing as a good or bad transit mode or technology, there's just appropriate and inappropriate options for different situations. I just can't see how a Canada Line (42m train every 3.5 min) would make sense as a replacement for corridors that generally get 12 or 18m buses running every 5-10 min. Yes the improvement in service would increase demand, but only to a point.

Btw, in the proposal i posted, the only section that would be mixed traffic is the streetcar section

[Nouvellecosse]

Actually, the only real obstacles to go from my vision to a light metro would be that a) it would need to stop at the edge of downtown since tunneling through downtown would be too expensive, not only since it's expensive in any city due to being busy and full of stuff, but also I believe the bedrock is quite close to the surface. That would mean anyone transferring further into downtown would need to walk or transfer creating a "last mile" problem. Perhaps if it was a seamless transfer to a high frequency streetcar it would work, but I just have to wonder if it isn't just creating unnecessary complications for the sake of some sort of prestige or bragging rights. And b) all other extensions would need to be compatible with that technology would make extending service to lower traffic routes potentially more expensive and rigid. I'd have to think about that one...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Actually, the only real obstacles to go from my vision to a light metro would be that a) it would need to stop at the edge of downtown since tunneling through downtown would be too expensive, not only since it's expensive in any city due to being busy and full of stuff, but also I believe the bedrock is quite close to the surface. That would mean anyone transferring further into downtown would need to walk or transfer creating a "last mile" problem.

IMO the standard wisdom about this in Halifax is backwards. This ties in a bit with that hypothetical bus plan earlier.

Lots of people talk about suburban service which is compromised by a lack of available surface space in the urban core. But improved transit would mostly be useful to the extent that it creates new routes in the urban core.

A Vancouver-style rapid transit line would not be worth it because the inner portion would be moderately used, offering only minor improvements to connectivity in the urban core, and then the outer suburban portion would cost $1B and end up serving 10,000 transit users.

The focus should be on the urban core. And actually it might be worth building a tunnel or elevated line in that part of Halifax. You could build cut-and-cover tunnels (and some surface rail with short underground portions at street crossings) through the Commons and Citadel, and getting around downtown and Spring Garden Road is only about 1 km. Getting to Dalhousie (student population 20,000) is another km. This is the type of situation where tunneling can be worth it. If there were a dedicated track, it would be possible to run small automated high frequency trains. Every bus connecting with that system would provide great access to the main destinations in the urban core. The difference would be like night and day.

(Plus Cogswell is about to get torn up, so a tunnel is a cheaper possibility there now than it will be in the future. It's a big mistake not to consider future rapid transit potential in that area.)

[Nouvellecosse]

Can you post a map of your proposed route please? I'm having a little trouble visualizing it.

[Reecemartin]

Had to go check out Canada's newest Rail Rapid Transit system - ION, clearly, some kinks to work out still but, overall a beautiful system for the growing region, two nice touches for me compared to our other Canadian Systems were the good quality free wifi and the useful announcements which mention bus transfers as well as what side the doors will open on!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfx8sGHpb0M

[srperrycgy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-transit-lrt-ctrain-scrap-1.5186121?cmp=rss

Kinda sad, but necessary.

[Reecemartin]

THIS IS INCREDIBLY BIG NEWS! PASSENGER RAIL IN CANADA MAY NOT SUCK IN THE FUTURE!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics...port-vias-rails-expansion-plans-through/

[milomilo]

Excellent. I'll reserve full excitement for when they actually start building it though.

I feel I need to correct you though - passenger rail in the Toronto - Montreal corridor may not suck in the future, but in the rest of Canada it still will, if they even have any at all.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

THIS IS INCREDIBLY BIG NEWS! PASSENGER RAIL IN CANADA MAY NOT SUCK IN THE FUTURE!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics...port-vias-rails-expansion-plans-through/

Originally Posted by roger1818

Here is a map of the route that VIA hopes to use. The HFR (VIA has no plans for HSR) stations are yellow circles. As you can see it will bypass many of the station you listed in post #32. Now I gather VIA does still plan to provide regional rail service along the existing route.

This is the closest thing we have to a map right now. They'll have to figure out Montreal due to REM, possibly it looks like using CP through Laval ROW.

There are near simultaneous announcements in Peterborough and Trois-Rivières planned.

Interestingly, it will be financed by redirecting a big portion of VIA's operating subsidy into paying off this large capital investment. VIA projects the project will reduce needed corridor operational subsidies by $150 million a year. So users get a much better system, and the government has hopefully neutral costs.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Excellent. I'll reserve full excitement for when they actually start building it though.

Exactly. How many plans have been announced over the years? The announcement is the easy part, it gets a lot harder from there.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by esquire

Exactly. How many plans have been announced over the years? The announcement is the easy part, it gets a lot harder from there.

All indications are that tomorrow is the funding announcement of some sort.

Media advisory

Trois-Rivières, QC — The Honourable Marc Garneau, Minister of Transport, as well as the Honourable François-Philippe Champagne, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, andVIA Rail Canada President and Chief Executive Officer, Cynthia Garneau and Canada Infrastructure Bank President and Chief Executive Officer, Pierre Lavallée, will make an announcement related to the advancement of VIA Rail Canada’s proposal for High Frequency Rail in the Quebec City- Toronto Corridor.
Date: June 25, 2019
Time: 10:00 a.m. (EDT)
Location:
Trois-Rivières Station
1075 Champflour,
Trois-Rivières, QC
G9A 2H1

May just be for final financial studies though:

Two sources, speaking on condition of anonymity because the details are not yet public, say the Canada Infrastructure Bank will cover the financial risk for the last studies, among other requirements, needed before any new rail lines are built.
...
The infrastructure bank has long been eyed as a key source of money for the project, given its mandate to “de-risk” projects at an early stage in order to draw in private backers when real construction work gets underway.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/06/24/via-rail-project-announcement/

[esquire]

It would seem extraordinarily unlikely that we'd be jumping right into a funding announcement this fast.

Looks more like a political carrot being dangled on the eve of an election than anything else... "We'll promise to really think about HFR if you vote us back into office", that kind of thing. After all, whatever faint hope there is for large-scale improvements to corridor passenger rail rests mainly with the Liberals.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/..._campaign=&utm_campaign_id=&utm_content=

opinion piece on K-W drivers (and ION)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/..._campaign=&utm_campaign_id=&utm_content=

opinion piece on K-W drivers (and ION)

Seems spot on and, as of yesterday, the accident tally of the last couple of weeks is up to five. I expect these accidents to be a regular feature for the foreseeable future (illegal right turns into the path of the moving train will be the most common). When it comes to K-W drivers, "unskilled" and "oblivious' are two words that immediately come to mind. I've always warned visitors from out of town to be hyper-vigilant - it seems weird given that K-W is hardly a mega-traffic town, but drive there for half an hour and you will understand. The place randomly mixes the worst aspects of big city and small town driving styles.

You have been warned!