Winnipeg | Downtown | True North Square | U/C

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by Jeff

All in all I'm just happy this HQ didnt get lured to that god awful Terracon business park on Kenaston! Winnipeg's downtown is too spread out and this major focus on TNS will hopefully give it a critical mass to maybe get some more reputable retailers downtown again!

Totally agree. Aside from the Terracon business park, I'm glad they also didn't end up near Polo Park ala Western Financial Group. I think the location at TNS is a good one. As you point out, our downtown is too spread out. If it were built at Broadway and Main it might stand out more for its design but it wouldn't be as impactful in that rather isolated location compared to helping with the critical mass being developed in the TNS area of downtown. Having lots of people in a concentrated area will help with the major city feel rather than everything being spread out so far. I can hardly wait to see what it will look like when all 5 buildings are completed.

[roccerfeller]

Given tower 5 is an office tower, I presume we can expect it to be similar in height to tower 2 at TNS? Or could it end up being the tallest of the 5 towers?

19 floors of office space should equate to about 25-26 residential floors, correct?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

Given tower 5 is an office tower, I presume we can expect it to be similar in height to tower 2 at TNS? Or could it end up being the tallest of the 5 towers?

19 floors of office space should equate to about 25-26 residential floors, correct?

I would think so

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Chipman is not connected to that church.

Sorry TV, that is simply 100% factually incorrect.

The cathedral on St Mary's Ave in the church of the Archdiocese of Winnipeg, essentially the headquarters for their regional office.

Separately, we know the Chipman family is directly involved with Gonzaga Middle School


Turning to this website: https://www.mbcatholicschools.ca/schools.html we see Gonzaga Middle School is operated by the Archdiocese of Winnipeg.

With how intertwined the Catholic church is you cannot be involved in something downstream of an Archdiocese without being involved with the Archdiocese itself. The Catholic church is an extremely hierarchical organization with every member having a direct connection to the Vatican and the Pope.

For what it is worth, both Mark and Steve also own houses that fall within the Archdiocese of Winnipeg. Granted there is a chance their home parish is Archdiocese of St Boniface but that is a coin toss for most people in the Winnipeg region.

--

All that aside, even if True North and the Chipman family wasn't involved directly with the rendering for that Archdiocese project SOMEONE was and that doesn't seem like something that comes from people outside the architect community which begs the question who did it and why.

[trueviking]

ha ha...ok...i'll concede. Seems like a pretty big stretch, but hey, if it gets us another project downtown I'll be a believer.

The renderings were done by the church itself, led by a couple of parishioners who are architects. It is nothing more than a feasibility study.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by trueviking

ha ha...ok...i'll concede. Seems like a pretty big stretch, but hey, if it gets us another project downtown I'll be a believer.

The renderings were done by the church itself, led by a couple of parishioners who are architects. It is nothing more than a feasibility study.

Even at that, I could easily imagine that TN would really push to make a deal with them, considering their campus is the hot new place to locate. They'll certainly want to strike while the iron is hot and take advantage of the current market.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Even at that, I could easily imagine that TN would really push to make a deal with them, considering their campus is the hot new place to locate. They'll certainly want to strike while the iron is hot and take advantage of the current market.

I would think if the church goes ahead with its project, that its needs would come first, which would mean mostly housing/administration/education/banquet-type space. I wouldn't expect to see, for instance, National Leasing move its HQ to a building on that site.

Something like the RWB's student housing could be a more logical fit, though.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Even at that, I could easily imagine that TN would really push to make a deal with them, considering their campus is the hot new place to locate. They'll certainly want to strike while the iron is hot and take advantage of the current market.

I'm not sure how hot the iron is. There are only so many deck chairs to shuffle around. They still have space in the small office tower they do have. Wawanesa is a once a decade find for them.

You guys are reading way too much into a feasibility study by a church with no money, but I won't try to convince you anymore.

[roccerfeller]

Wawanesa consolidating downtown gives me hope other companies may also consolidation in the future, like GWL.

GWL seems to be comfy as is and unlikely to move any time soon though, albeit spread out around several buildings downtown.

Perhaps it could restore confidence in relocation downtown? one thing at a time right.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

Wawanesa consolidating downtown gives me hope other companies may also consolidation in the future, like GWL.

GWL seems to be comfy as is and unlikely to move any time soon though, albeit spread out around several buildings downtown.

Perhaps it could restore confidence in relocation downtown? one thing at a time right.

IMO-I would think that some companies have waited for someone else to make that "first step" in consolidating their offices downtown. Now some will probably wait and see how successful it is for the Wawanesa employees. A success story here might encourage a few more to make the move in the future. I hope!

[optimusREIM]

are there any companies that are large enough to require a decent amount of space not currently located downtown? (office type corps and not like newflyer or CN who would want to stay close to their operations)

[plrh]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

are there any companies that are large enough to require a decent amount of space not currently located downtown? (office type corps and not like newflyer or CN who would want to stay close to their operations)

There are lots of engineering companies, insurance companies, call centres, investment companies, etc.

The only one I can think of that could take a whole building is Investor's Group consolidating some broker's. Or maybe Aecom or WSP moving.

[bomberjet]

Even then AECOM is like 100 something people. Not that much really. They'll take a couple floors in a building. It'll take a large number of those companies to make an impact.

I also mentioned CN recently as a wish list thing. If they developed a property near the track by Union Station. Again though, it would take a major re-organization of CN to make it viable. Basically relocate everyone from Edmonton to Winnipeg, plus, plus type thing.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Even then AECOM is like 100 something people. Not that much really. They'll take a couple floors in a building. It'll take a large number of those companies to make an impact.

I also mentioned CN recently as a wish list thing. If they developed a property near the track by Union Station. Again though, it would take a major re-organization of CN to make it viable. Basically relocate everyone from Edmonton to Winnipeg, plus, plus type thing.

That sort of thing would make a gigantic impact. How many employees could they put in there. I bet there would be a couple thousand in admin etc at least that would work in a corporate headquarters. That could be a thirty floor building no problem.

[bomberjet]

One thing I can assay about the engineering world. There's basically two train of thoughts. One is the suburban hell no I'm not paying to park downtown crowd. Then there's the other urban minded, pro downtown type people.

South Winnipeg engineering ghettos will never die. They just will not relocate. AECOM moved to their office at terracon because management didn't even want to try coming downtown. They like it out there because it's 'close to home'.

Regarding CN. It would be awesome but I don't see anything of the sort happening.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

are there any companies that are large enough to require a decent amount of space not currently located downtown? (office type corps and not like newflyer or CN who would want to stay close to their operations)

This list (XLS) is a few years old, but it gives a sense of the challenge. You go through the list looking for firms that have a reasonably high headcount, aren't already located downtown, and don't have manufacturing operations (or other big operations) that tie them to locations outside the core? Not a huge number outside of government and crowns (which has made pretty clear they're not investing into HQ space downtown)

https://www.economicdevelopmentwinnipeg....employers_february_2016.t1519745906.xlsx

[dmacc]

Maybe the City could consolidate it's services downtown. They have stuff all over the city and I'm sure could take up a big portion of the old Wawanesa building.

[bomberjet]

Yay for cladding.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

One thing I can assay about the engineering world. There's basically two train of thoughts. One is the suburban hell no I'm not paying to park downtown crowd. Then there's the other urban minded, pro downtown type people.

South Winnipeg engineering ghettos will never die. They just will not relocate. AECOM moved to their office at terracon because management didn't even want to try coming downtown. They like it out there because it's 'close to home'.

Regarding CN. It would be awesome but I don't see anything of the sort happening.

Well Stantec did. But i guess that was a high level decision. Look at Edmonton.

Maybe when somebody buys KGS, like SNC or someone else, they will build new downtown. KGS is a little spread out.

[bomberjet]

Stantec is one relocation, yes. That's great. There are a large amount of professional companies working out there in the Terracon park, off Scurfield, Waverley areas. If they could somehow be persuaded to relocate centrally, it would be fantastic. Would also create a lot of vacancies out there.