Calgary Area Regional Transit - Page 54

Corndogger · #**1061** Posted **Mar 3, 2019, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Malcolm, you posted this:

Do you believe that CP number to be accurate? Because to me $500M to triple track out to Cochrane sounds far more believable than $380M to double track all the way to Banff.

$380 million is way too low. $500 million to triple the track to Cochrane sounds too high to me but I don't know how many bridges, etc. are involved.

milomilo · #**1062** Posted **Mar 3, 2019, 7:58 PM**

An issue is that we have to pay CP whatever they want to build it, and they will of course rip us off as much as they can. CN played tricks on Metrolinx when upgrading their track and CP appear even more dickish than CN, so I'd fully expect the same behavior:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o...r-construction-projects/article33315170/

Corndogger · #**1063** Posted **Mar 3, 2019, 8:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

An issue is that we have to pay CP whatever they want to build it, and they will of course rip us off as much as they can. CN played tricks on Metrolinx when upgrading their track and CP appear even more dickish than CN, so I'd fully expect the same behavior:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o...r-construction-projects/article33315170/

I agree.

milomilo · #**1064** Posted **Mar 4, 2019, 12:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Until 2012 Greyhound had a government mandated near monopoly in Alberta, and used profits from the main routes to subsidize the not profitable routes. The government ended the near monopoly then Greyhound collapsed because most of the routes were natural monopolies at best.

What decision was this?

IMO, it can be fine and desirable to have government sanctioned monopolies for public transit, but the structure has to be carefully thought out. I'm not a fan of just enforcing that the incumbent has all the contracts for eternity, that leads exactly to what you would expect - poor service. Instead, have contracts for certain routes or regions over a fixed time period (like 5 or 10 years) and they are judged on their performance and will be given mandated minimum service levels. If we ever get passenger rail, this would be the model I'd support too (or just have the government run it, but that might be a bit too socialist for this province).

MalcolmTucker · #**1065** Posted **Mar 4, 2019, 1:57 AM**

Info here milo: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType276/Production/Bus_Modernization_FAQs.pdf

milomilo · #**1066** Posted **Mar 4, 2019, 2:07 AM**

Thankyou.

Quote:

Government is being proactive and modernizing the regulatory framework for intercity
busing to essentially create an open market for bus service. This supports free enterprise,
fosters competition and helps further develop regional transit service.
Our goal is to have a system that is flexible and responsive to the varied busing needs
across the province

Government has no plans to subsidize private industry and believes private industry is best
at responding to market demand and deciding how to operate a rural route. Government
also has no plans to get into the busing business.

How did that work out? 8 years later, now that the private sector has been freed from government shackles, has a low cost free market regional transit industry blossomed?

Jaspertf · #**1067** Posted **Jun 8, 2019, 4:41 PM**

http://www.klumpentown.com/article/calgary-regional-rail-vision
A great read and lots of great facts and reasons why passenger rail needs to be developed in the Calgary Metropolitan Region.

suburbia · #**1068** Posted **Jun 8, 2019, 9:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaspertf

http://www.klumpentown.com/article/calgary-regional-rail-vision
A great read and lots of great facts and reasons why passenger rail needs to be developed in the Calgary Metropolitan Region.

Just doesn't make any financial sense. You can't build a house if there is no foundation. No matter how beautiful you plan on painting the internal walls and outside door - it just doesn't matter.

Jaspertf · #**1069** Posted **Jun 8, 2019, 10:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

Just doesn't make any financial sense. You can't build a house if there is no foundation. No matter how beautiful you plan on painting the internal walls and outside door - it just doesn't matter.

When you build a house you start with the foundation, when you design a house you start with what the house will look like inside and out. Not sure what kind of analogy you are trying to make.

milomilo · #**1070** Posted **Jun 9, 2019, 12:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

Just doesn't make any financial sense. You can't build a house if there is no foundation. No matter how beautiful you plan on painting the internal walls and outside door - it just doesn't matter.

Your analogy makes no sense. The 'foundation' is there, it just needs investment to be useful for passenger rail.

Ania · #**1071** Posted **Jun 9, 2019, 7:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaspertf

When you build a house you start with the foundation, when you design a house you start with what the house will look like inside and out. Not sure what kind of analogy you are trying to make.

Love the ARR site!

suburbia · #**1072** Posted **Jun 9, 2019, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaspertf

When you build a house you start with the foundation, when you design a house you start with what the house will look like inside and out. Not sure what kind of analogy you are trying to make.

The foundation in such a venture is business sustainability. The opportunity is dwarfed by the cost, and those who the ruralites expect to pay for this stuff aren't exactly in a generous mood for such frivolous spending.

milomilo · #**1073** Posted **Jun 9, 2019, 10:30 PM**

You seem to have the viewpoint that the entire province should be living in and paying taxes to the municipality of Calgary.

A regional rail project would have to have provincial funding, I don't for a second buy the hype that private business will pay for it, and I don't think private operation would be a good idea anyway. But that doesn't mean the investment would not be worth it in the long run.

suburbia · #**1074** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 4:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

You seem to have the viewpoint that the entire province should be living in and paying taxes to the municipality of Calgary.

A regional rail project would have to have provincial funding, I don't for a second buy the hype that private business will pay for it, and I don't think private operation would be a good idea anyway. But that doesn't mean the investment would not be worth it in the long run.

Not exactly. What I'm saying is that Calgary needs to stop subsidizing the "wants" of others. There is no way Calgary should be subsidizing people who don't even pay taxes here. Such a decision would put even more pressure on the actual residents and businesses here who are dealing with large tax increases. This is the same reason I think it is a shame the Flames billionaire owners are wanting to continue not paying property taxes on the current and future arenas.

milomilo · #**1075** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 5:55 PM**

Who said anything about Calgary paying for it?

suburbia · #**1076** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Who said anything about Calgary paying for it?

I'm not as much talking about capital infrastructure, but rather operational costs, noting transit like this almost always is subsidized.

Anyway - we'll see what actually happens on this one.

Corndogger · #**1077** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 7:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Who said anything about Calgary paying for it?

According to Suburbia everyone in Okotoks, Airdrie, etc. works in Calgary and contribute $0.00 to the infrastructure they use. Apparently none of them buy their gas here or use Calgary transit.

milomilo · #**1078** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 7:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

I'm not as much talking about capital infrastructure, but rather operational costs, noting transit like this almost always is subsidized.

Anyway - we'll see what actually happens on this one.

I don't see why it wouldn't be the province that subsidizes it. Although I would guess Calgary would fund infrastructure around stations.

But yeah, I don't see this happening any time soon, especially with the new government. We'll need to see very used buses at the minimum, and the fact remains that just adding another lane out to Banff will be a far cheaper way of adding capacity at peak times. Once that's done, rail starts to look like the only choice. Personally, I'd rather we just made the investment now, but we live in a province of cheapskates.

Jaspertf · #**1079** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 10:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ania

Love the ARR site!

Check out the Facebook page and follow us on Twitter. If you think you can help let us know.

Jaspertf · #**1080** Posted **Jun 10, 2019, 11:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Who said anything about Calgary paying for it?

One way to fund it would be by means of a Public Private Partnership, which the UCP have said they are not adverse to for funding infrastructure projects. The funding sources would be split between the Federal Government, the Provincial Government, and private industry.